Update on Max with training

Okay we'll I don't really know where to start, I didn't come on yesterday as it was very upsetting with what happened and what we got told.

So the trainer came, he asked us to put max in the kitchen so he can have a chat with myself and OH, after a 15 minute talk he asked me to put the lead on him and drop the lead on the floor and let him out ( my heart was literally in my throat at this point ) I was terrified but didn't show it!
Anyway max came out IGNORED the trainer for a second and sniffed my OH and me. ( basically Max is pack leader which we're going to work on )
And then max walked over to the trainer sniffed him out, whilst max was doing that the trainer gave max treats and Max did everything that was asked of him, the trainer didn't speak one bit, it's like max knew what was asked of him, I couldn't believe it, I was smiling and almost laughing, I didn't laugh because I thought it was funny, I laughed because it was either that or cry lol.

Anyway everything was going great until.. Max stiffened up, eyes glazing, I said to the trainer " he's gona go " so at that point max lunged, partner grabbed him, but then max was all of the sudden normal again, happy, like nothing has happened...
I saw the look in the trainers eyes and instantly new it wasn't good news.
He said that Max is ill, not physically but mentally, my heart just went, I thought he was going to suggest putting him to sleep, instead he said to take him to the vet, but he strongly suspects max has some kind bipolar disorder, I didn't think it was possible but yeah it definitely is, I just never thought of dogs having illnesses/disorders like these, Max was always off and on with people but I never thought anything of it other than get a trainer in and get it fixed. We're just going to take our time and not force him into anything.

He said he can't see why myself and OH should put him to sleep because he is a great dog in general, we love him to bits, take care of him, we just have to see how it goes, but the trainer sent us loads of PDF files on training we can do, and disorders in dogs, which I found very helpful!

Even if max will never get better it doesn't matter to us because his quality of life is just like a normal dog, he goes out for walks, runs, plays, just has the odd hissy moment but then it's back to normal.
He's never attacked a dog or attacked a stranger, but prevention will always be our top priority, we also got given a sheet on the " dog law " so I can shove that into ignorant people's faces if they want to say nasty things.

I tried so hard to not break down, it was a dull moment for us last night, especially in bed as I kept dreaming about taking him to the vet to be PTS but that will never happen!

We're going to get one of those yellow necker chiefs and probably a jacket with a warning on it so people and other dog owners can see and hopefully they'll respect it and not go near him.

His intentions are not to be a nasty or to be an aggressive dog, he's not nasty at all anyway, he just switches and its not his fault, so why should we just give up as if its his own doing when it isn't? He's my baby and always will be and ill ALWAYS be there for him even if he's going to like this for the rest of his days.

>< >< That just made me cry , what a fantastic trainer he really gives hope and to provide so much factual support too,but it is your dedication to Max is what brought the tears (i'm a big girl in disguise) Please keep us updated and give Max and have one yourself a hug from Cassie and myself ><

This is what he sent us plus with the files, the trainer didn't even want all the Fee, but my OH gave him extra just for his honesty.




Hello Kim and Richard

Please find herewith my guides as promised to further assist you with Max the SBT who certainly is very lucky to have the two of you to love and support him, I know how much he means to you and the work you have already put into him - physically he appears very healthy however as we saw today and from what you kindly reported to me Max is suffering from an illness hence the unprovoked attack on me we say today.

Max has forty-two adult teeth, it is the teeth that Max will naturally use if he feels threatened, the illness that Max is suffering from obviously would need to be diagnosed by a vet who hopefully will be able to recommend and supply some medication to relax him. With what Max is suffering from no amount of dog training or socialisation classes he attends (he would not be suitable unfortunately as he would become stressed and fearful) will ever cure his suffering. Safety is always going to be paramount and I therefore recommend the following practices as I know you will not give up in him.

1: Max should always be walked on his muzzle (you have a very good one at home)
2: When guests are in your house Max should either be crated or in another room - crate preferred option (crate training guide attached)
3: Outside Max should never socialise with other dogs or humans as you will never be able to judge when he is likely to attack. If Max is toy driven then exercise him in a remote part of a field keeping him focused on the balls at all times - I would certainly invest in a ball pinger to tire him out.
4: Always condition you guests who you decide are safe around him to fully implement my pack leadership plan (attached), this will in no way assist you with Max when he suddenly "turns" however will allow all humans to be his leaders rather than equals when he is calm and settled. I would be very choosey as to who he is allowed to meet in your house with no muzzle. Personally I would suggest use the muzzle on Max when anyone is in the house other than yourselves, safety is paramount and a dog of his nature can cause a lot of pain and suffering if he bit a human or another animal.
5: Do not let Max on the sofa - this is a safe haven for humans, he should also be sleeping downstairs.
6: When guests come into your home ensure that the guest never approaches Max, Max must be allowed to approach the guest.
7: Max even with a muzzle on must never be allowed to mix with children
8: Remember to condition your guests as to why Max is wearing a muzzle and that he is ill rather than a naughty dog.
9: Please warn the vet / vet nurses to his condition prior to attending the surgery, this will be a very stressful experience for him however to assist Max he will need to be examined.
10: If Max ever hurts a human or another animal reflect on what has happened, whose fault was it (human error or has the aggression developed), if it has developed further then I unfortunately would have to recommend that Max is put to sleep for his safety and for the safety of all around him. I appreciate that this is very traumatic even just reading these words however I have seen some terrible injuries over the years caused by fearful and ill dogs.

Thank you very much for your time and enthusiasm today, Max has landed on his feet coming to live with you.

Kind regards

Nigel Marshall MBIPDT

Wow

Thank you Dave!
It's quite upsetting as in a way I can't help but feel really guilty, which I really do!
The above seems really strict but that's what we have been doing anyway, and I would much rather be safer than sorry and keep my dog for the rest of his days, he's definitely part of the family regardless, and most definitely not just a dog to us, which we had a comment like that from a so called friend yesterday!

But will definitely keep you posted and you'll still get tons of photos of him and his mate! Hehe

So, at least there's something positive come out of this. The only thing I don't agree with is the whole pack leadership thing. I don't think it matters a hoot if a dog gets on the sofa or goes upstairs as long as he'll get off/come down as soon as he's told.

As far as bipolar is concerned, it's certainly possible, but I would also wonder about epilepsy? If you're insured your vet might want to test for that as well.

Don't feel guilty feel proud you have the right, Max is ill but lives with heaven sent people and can still have a meaningful life. I just hope other not so dedicated owners reading your post see what it means to be dedicated like yourselves and lots of others on here and this post helps them change

Oh the leader thing I was umming and arring about, as I kinda don't see the point either, how ever he does need to start learning more that if he gets told to get off it means gets off. Other than that everything else is fine we're just going to keep doing what we've always been doing for almost 5 years, which is ALOT ALOT of love, care AND LOADS of attention! He'll be treated like our baby still, simple as!

And again thanks Dave, well hopefully less dedicated people may read this and maybe change them also, who knows! All I know is that my dog is a happy dog, typical staffi, always wanting attention on demand and always happy to please , wouldn't want it any other way to be honest!

He's got good owners & a good life. I'm sure between you & the health/training professionals things will move forward positively!

Kimb&amp;MooMan wrote:Okay we'll I don't really know where to start, I didn't come on yesterday as it was very upsetting with what happened and what we got told.

So the trainer came, he asked us to put max in the kitchen so he can have a chat with myself and OH, after a 15 minute talk he asked me to put the lead on him and drop the lead on the floor and let him out ( my heart was literally in my throat at this point ) I was terrified but didn't show it!
Anyway max came out IGNORED the trainer for a second and sniffed my OH and me. ( basically Max is pack leader which we're going to work on )
And then max walked over to the trainer sniffed him out, whilst max was doing that the trainer gave max treats and Max did everything that was asked of him, the trainer didn't speak one bit, it's like max knew what was asked of him, I couldn't believe it, I was smiling and almost laughing, I didn't laugh because I thought it was funny, I laughed because it was either that or cry lol.

Anyway everything was going great until.. Max stiffened up, eyes glazing, I said to the trainer " he's gona go " so at that point max lunged, partner grabbed him, but then max was all of the sudden normal again, happy, like nothing has happened...
I saw the look in the trainers eyes and instantly new it wasn't good news.
He said that Max is ill, not physically but mentally, my heart just went, I thought he was going to suggest putting him to sleep, instead he said to take him to the vet, but he strongly suspects max has some kind bipolar disorder, I didn't think it was possible but yeah it definitely is, I just never thought of dogs having illnesses/disorders like these, Max was always off and on with people but I never thought anything of it other than get a trainer in and get it fixed. We're just going to take our time and not force him into anything.

He said he can't see why myself and OH should put him to sleep because he is a great dog in general, we love him to bits, take care of him, we just have to see how it goes, but the trainer sent us loads of PDF files on training we can do, and disorders in dogs, which I found very helpful!

Even if max will never get better it doesn't matter to us because his quality of life is just like a normal dog, he goes out for walks, runs, plays, just has the odd hissy moment but then it's back to normal.
He's never attacked a dog or attacked a stranger, but prevention will always be our top priority, we also got given a sheet on the " dog law " so I can shove that into ignorant people's faces if they want to say nasty things.

I tried so hard to not break down, it was a dull moment for us last night, especially in bed as I kept dreaming about taking him to the vet to be PTS but that will never happen!

We're going to get one of those yellow necker chiefs and probably a jacket with a warning on it so people and other dog owners can see and hopefully they'll respect it and not go near him.

His intentions are not to be a nasty or to be an aggressive dog, he's not nasty at all anyway, he just switches and its not his fault, so why should we just give up as if its his own doing when it isn't? He's my baby and always will be and ill ALWAYS be there for him even if he's going to like this for the rest of his days.

There is a company called "Friendly Dog Collars" that are making collars/harnesses and leashes based on a traffic light system, green - friendly, orange - no dogs, red - caution (do not approach). They have this written clearly on them for people to see, and a caution one might be helpful for you!

This is their Australian website but I know they have suppliers in Ireland as well (just not sure about the details), maybe contact them and they can point you in the right direction
http://www.friendlydogcollars.com.au

You can also order to Europe from their Ebay shop:
http://stores.ebay.com.au/friendlydogcollars

Ah thank you!! That should defiantly be helpful as we need something to let other people know not to approach or let their dogs approach him thanks again

Glad you have had some progress, I have heard of dogs doing well on medication. Here is a link for the Yellow Dog campaign http://www.yellowdoguk.co.uk/

Thank you! I've been obsessed on researching on all of this, I think I'm going to give a break for a few minutes before I rack my brains up lol.

Also I told the trainer there is one thing that calms max down and thats Keith ( the cat ) as soon as Keith goes upto him and rub on to max, Max settles down and chills with Keith!, I had to tell the trainer that as he suggested re-homing Keith but honestly couldn't do that, I don't want to risk putting max into a big depression,
But after telling him about how max calms down completely with Keith with him, he took back what he said about re-homing Keith, that's Max's little buddy bless him

I don't think the pack leadership thing matters, really. Dogs need rules and boundaries and to respect what we ask them to do, but not to such a strong extent, in my opinion. Anyway, that must have been so upsetting for you but I think the vets will help pinpoint it or give you even more information, and once the shock of it fades and you adjust to any new routines, then I think you'll manage just fine. It won't be easy at first, but you all love Max to bits and want the best for him, and whatever this illness is, you can manage with it and he can still continue having a very happy life filled with love

Sorry to hear of the issues you are having with Max and thankfully you found a very good trainer who was very honest with you.

The colour coded harnesses mentioned above are available in the UK too from Amazon, the link below will help with this, however I am not too sure what notice other dog owners would take of them so still proceed with caution:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/embroidered-adjustable-Staffordshire-rottweiler-dalmation/dp/B004QBS6SM

Thank you , we will definitely proceed with caution, but I know other dog owners may not take it too kindly but like everyone else we are loving, caring, devoted dog owners, we did have a big talk to the trainer who is also a police dog handler, and we spoke about people reporting max and basically unless max is starving , living in poor conditions or if he has bitten or harmed anyone or any dog/pet, there's no complaint that can be said about Max, plus IF we do then when have the trainer and the vets to confirm the problem and that myself and OH are always thinking "safety first " lol sorry for long novel again