Raw Feeding

Hi all,

Looking for a little bit of advice. I've decided to switch Brutus to a raw diet. After doing a fair bit of research and seeing the benefits, plus speaking to a few folk who also feed raw, it seemed like the right thing to do.

I had a good read of the Prey-Model-Raw website and it mentioned the 2-3% ratio. Brutus is 7 months and weighs 14.5kgs. I have been working to an adult body weight of 17kgs (his dads weight) so we are feeding him approximately 350grams of food once per day. He also gets an occasional treat of a frozen raw pigs ear or trotter. We give him about 1/2 cup of cooked rive with sardines in oil last night, and have done this once per week since he was diagnosed with canine dermotitis (? on the spelling sorry).

Anyhow, its been 5 days and I have never seen him get so excited about his food. Literally barking in excitement at the mention of din-dins and running to his bowl. Other bonuses are his breath smeels a lot better already and yes, whilst i acknowledge it has been 5 days, to me he looks happier and better already. So all in all, so far its been a good move.

However, I have two questions:
1: he always seems hungry. Are we feeding enough or should we increase it? Is he getting enough meat compared to the bone ratio of the chicken? We give him 3 wings and 1 largish thigh/leg bone. Just for comparison, when we fed him on kibble, he didnt seem to get hungry like he does now.
2: I read he will get the runs for a few days once the swap from kibble to raw is made. Roughly how long does this last and at what point do you decide to get hold of a vet? He has had the runs for 2-3 days now, but no blood is in his stool so I am not overly concerned.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Josh

Apologies, I just realised I posted this in the wrong topic area. Any chance it could be moved to the diet section.

Thanks

The excitement over food is just that - excitement, not necessarily hunger. Because he's enjoying the food so much he's looking for more!

Keep an eye on his general weight and 'look'. If he seems to be thinning out too much (and dogs switched to raw will often lose a little weight over the first week or two) then increase the amounts you give him.

Does he actually have the runs or is he just a bit soft? If it's a bit soft, leave it for another week or so & then increase the bone content if it doesn't sort itself out. If it's really the runs, then you might have to look at the possibility that he's intolerant of chicken, and maybe try another protein source.

Caryll,
thanks for your advice. I presumed his general excitement over food was exactly that, he as excited about getting some proper food compared to biscuits.

In regards to his exports, it varies literally on each occurance. For instance I noticed that last night it was a normal stool, crumbly and from what I have read, what you should expect. However the poor lad woke me this morning at about 3:30am and legged it outside where he had a runny stool. So I'm not sure what it is that is causing the trouble.

I was wondering if it was the salmon oil the vet told us to put on his food. We were advised to put one pump per meal, however do you think this would be too much? Also, do you think we should increase the bone content of his meal?

I will try and get some quail or turkey today from the shops and see if that does anything different.

Thanks

My 2 are raw fed.
My girl is 22mths - she has 400g raw per day. She is just right, but not as active as my boy.

My boy is 10mths - 18kg he has approx 550g per day - he's incredibly lean with lovely muscle tone and very active. (not an ounce of fat on him)

IMO as your lad is still a relatively young pup id maby up his food a tad, or split it into 2 meals. My 2 also have a cup of goats milk per day too.

What kinda things are u feeding him ?

Some dogs dont like pork, or chicken.

When I switched my 2 they had beef green tripe, tripe altho stinks to high heaven is incredibly good for them, full of probiotics and good enzymes, also very gentle on the stomach for making the change over.

brutusindubai wrote:Caryll,
thanks for your advice. I presumed his general excitement over food was exactly that, he as excited about getting some proper food compared to biscuits.

In regards to his exports, it varies literally on each occurance. For instance I noticed that last night it was a normal stool, crumbly and from what I have read, what you should expect. However the poor lad woke me this morning at about 3:30am and legged it outside where he had a runny stool. So I'm not sure what it is that is causing the trouble.

I was wondering if it was the salmon oil the vet told us to put on his food. We were advised to put one pump per meal, however do you think this would be too much? Also, do you think we should increase the bone content of his meal?

I will try and get some quail or turkey today from the shops and see if that does anything different.

Thanks

crumbly poo means to much bone so if you see that do not give more bone, he needs more boneless food.

I feed prey model raw and that does NOT involve giving rice, grains or fruit they are very much not needed and can hinder swapping diets to begin with.

Have you read the guide here: www.preymodelraw.com it explains easily when to add new foods and what sort of things to eat

Hi Ella,

Thanks for the note. I had a good read over the PMR website and based the diet on this. He is only being fed chicken at the moment, wings and legs with thigh. Also, he gets the occassional pigs trotter or ear. Still slightly runny today, but will call past another supermarket and see what else is available. Its been almost a week, so i thought he may have started to settle.

Based on the meal comprising of chicken wings and legs with thigh, I thought he would be getting enough bone.

JackieB, did you start on chicken or go straight to tripe? If he does have a reaction to chicken, do we then stay away from poultry all together, or try turkey or quail?

Thanks

brutusindubai wrote:Hi Ella,

Thanks for the note. I had a good read over the PMR website and based the diet on this. He is only being fed chicken at the moment, wings and legs with thigh. Also, he gets the occassional pigs trotter or ear. Still slightly runny today, but will call past another supermarket and see what else is available. Its been almost a week, so i thought he may have started to settle.

Based on the meal comprising of chicken wings and legs with thigh, I thought he would be getting enough bone.

JackieB, did you start on chicken or go straight to tripe? If he does have a reaction to chicken, do we then stay away from poultry all together, or try turkey or quail?

Thanks

the idea is you start with chicken and feed that soley for a week or two until you get consistent good stools then add the next meat in whether turkey, tripe or lamb as they are best next

runny stools is normal and does not mean he is allergic to chicken it becomes very obvious if they are. But if he were to be allergic to chicken then it's still fine to give turkey, quail, duck etc

great, thanks for the advice Ella.

ella wrote:runny stools is normal and does not mean he is allergic to chicken it becomes very obvious if they are. But if he were to be allergic to chicken then it's still fine to give turkey, quail, duck etc

If he's chicken intolerant (not allergic) then his stools will be runny, not just soft. An intolerance is different to an allergy & doesn't have such a dramatic effect on health as an allergy does.

If he's intolerant of chicken, and he probably isn't, then although it doesn't automatically mean all poultry, you should take care when you introduce other types. Dempsey is intolerant of chicken and duck, but can eat a certain amount of turkey thigh (not breast). I've never tried quail, they're hard to get hold of here, and when you do they're very expensive! It's a matter of trial & error.

Most dogs are ok with green tripe, although it can make stools a little softer in some dogs.

Thanks for the advice Caryll. It's greatly appreciated.

He was at the vets today for his skin test and I told the vet about him being on a raw diet. She said that it could possibly help out with his skin problems, so we are sticking with it.

I have bought some chicken breast and will give that to him the next couple of days. Things seem to be calming down at that end of business, so hopefully his digestion is coming around to it.

Yet another question, I noticed that the tripe shown in a number of pictures is a brown colour. The only type i can find in our shops is white. Is their any difference in terms of how you prepare it?

Thanks

The white is for human consumption and has been bleached. It has very little nutritional value, and may still contain some bleaching agent.

You should be able to get green tripe online or from an old fashioned butcher or abbatoir. Warning - don't ever cook green tripe, it stinks!

Caryll wrote:

ella wrote:runny stools is normal and does not mean he is allergic to chicken it becomes very obvious if they are. But if he were to be allergic to chicken then it's still fine to give turkey, quail, duck etc

If he's chicken intolerant (not allergic) then his stools will be runny, not just soft. An intolerance is different to an allergy & doesn't have such a dramatic effect on health as an allergy does.

If he's intolerant of chicken, and he probably isn't, then although it doesn't automatically mean all poultry, you should take care when you introduce other types. Dempsey is intolerant of chicken and duck, but can eat a certain amount of turkey thigh (not breast). I've never tried quail, they're hard to get hold of here, and when you do they're very expensive! It's a matter of trial & error.

Most dogs are ok with green tripe, although it can make stools a little softer in some dogs.

true, and with an allergy they tend to scratch for england and get hot spots so an allergy is very easy to spot, especially if your just feeding the one protein

Well it's been just over a week now and I must say, Brutus has improved leaps and bounds. I managed to get hold of some lamb legs which at first he sniffed, he then sat and barked at it, the gave it a taste testing lick. Ten minutes later a very satisfied 7 month old pup was sitting at my feet, tongue out expecting more.

Ella and Caryll, looking for some more advice sorry. I noticed you both feed your dogs twice per day, and we have done the same. Working to his adult weight of approximately 17kgs (his dad's weight) this equates to 510 grams of food per day. I give him half in the morning and half in the evening. But he always seems hungry. Do your dogs act the same, or have I completely mis read the PMR advice and it should be two meals at 510/day? which seems an awful lot.

For instance, yesterday he had 350grams of chicken meat for breakfast, followed by a lamb leg and 2 chicken wings for dinner. He nearly ripped the rubbish bag out of the bin in his search for food after his dinner. We gave him 2 more wings and only then did he calm down.

actually i only feed once a day late afternoon.

you work out 2-3% of their adult to feed and thats for the day NOT per meal, i find feeding it in one larger meal and then a small snack or few treats throughtout the day works better for us

Ella, thanks for the speedy response.

I didn't think it was per meal. Otherwise he'd be the size of a house in a few months. Will persevere with his current feeding and may top it up a little. He gets a fair bit of activity each day. Also, I'm assuming that because raw doesn't have the so called "fillers" then as long as he keeps exercising, that little extra wont allow the waist line to expand.

Thanks

don't forget the percentage is just a guide and doesn't need to be stuck to religiously start with what your feeding and if he is getting lots of exercise and he is looking to skinny for your liking then up the amount of food and visa versa.

don't forget little treats or a stuffed kong or something every now and again won't hurt and will help keep him fuller

Yes, just use the amounts as a guide. Watch how he looks & if he looks a bit porky cut down a little, if he looks a bit skinny then up the amounts.

I feed twice a day purely to lessen the problem of gastric torsion (bloat). Dogs fed once a day seem to be more susceptible to it.

I also feed one meal during the evening but have only done that for about 7 months, before that Blue had bones in the morning and meat in the evening, but like Ella and Caryll have said the best thing to do is what suits your dog.

Bailey is fed once a day, I actually prefer it because now most of the time he's hungry for his food and eats everything whereas before sometimes he would go a day or 2 with not eating!

Sierra is still on 3 feeds as she's only 5 months, but she'll go down to 2 feeds in the next couple of weeks and then down to 1 at about 10-12 months old!

Thats the reason why I changed to one evening meal Stu. Since changing from 2 meals to 1 a day, Blue has polished his dish in a min where before her was picking at it and sometimes not eating for a day or 2

I used to feed one meal a day - it's just since Dempsey had his brush with bloat I'm ultra careful!

But then he'd clear his bowl no matter how many times a day he was fed!

Well its been more than a week now and now and Brutus is loving his new diet. Stools are better and he is eating everything in his bowl. Even to the point that he keeps licking it to get the last bit of flavour. So the switch has worked well. Did a massive shop today and bought lambs liver, kidney, heart, lamb bones, and plenty of chicken. Had to draw the line at the heart as when I went to pick up some tongue, the wife questioned my sanity.

We have to keep him on two meals a day for a fortnight as he is on a dose of antibiotics for his skin. Will see how we go after that.

Thank you all for your advice with the above questions. It's greatly appreciated.

Happy feeding

Cheers

Ahh glad to hear Brutus is loving his new diet.
My 2 have never been so enthusiastic to eat now they are on raw !

He is the same. Follows us around constantly with a look of food time? I'm glad we made the switch. He just seems much happier.

don't give the heart a miss it's about the BEST meat you can feed!

We bought heart. Is in the bag for tomorrow mornings meal. It was the tongue that the line was drawn at. To be fair, it freaked me out a little as well.

Oooooh :p

tongue is also realllllllllly good to feed aswell, don't forget it's pupster that's eating it not you

Is tongue considered a meat? Do you just feed a whole tongue, or cut it up? The idea of Brutus walking around the house with two tongues hanging out is too comical.

yep it's considered meat just like heart is

If i get it whole i feed it whole, otherwise i feed it as it comes

Tongue's good, but very tough - it can take a bit of chewing!

Chewing is good. Will have a look in a week or two once he has had a chance to get used to red meats.

Thanks again.

brutusindubai wrote:Well its been more than a week now and now and Brutus is loving his new diet. Stools are better and he is eating everything in his bowl. Even to........................Cheers

Great to hear it is going well. Love the avatar pic by the way