tesco's halal section (photo warning)

The new superstore that's opened has a small halal section, which has been empty everytime i've been to get stuff but i tried again today and picked some bits up

Some things aren't the cheapest but i can't get them else where currently so once in a while i don't mind paying a bit extra soo...



lovely meaty bones


lamb tongues


which look like


big enough for 2 meals


the pricey item but hey


mutton feet which don't have any hoof on


I've also found another butchers to visit and got a bag of trotters for a £1 and 2 bags of chicken off cuts and offal which weighed about 2kg each

Ella, are you aware as to how halal meat is produced?

I sure am and it's unfortunate, but the food will be sold whether i buy it or not, and i like to make sure the boys have a good variety of foods.

OK Ella, just thought I'd ask.

I don't want to enter into a "hot debate" so will leave it there.

just for the record i don't eat halal meat

me neither.

i do meat is meat and as ella says its going to get bought anyway its not like there killing an animal for me

No clue what halal is but I'm off for a google! At least there is a good variety. Wish I could get more variety.

Edit: and now I know.

I used to eat halal meet in school cos it was what they served because a lot of the students were Muslims. Didn't even know what it was until quite a while later. Did you buy the halal food cos it sells things you wouldn't normally find? Hm, maybe I'll see what they have, see if Loki likes something else.

Oh, Ella, I wanted to ask...if I want to feed Loki raw in the mornings-only, do I have to do it bit-by-bit like I would with dry food? I ask cos the last time I gave him a lamb heart, he was sick for a few days, and wouldn't if that'd be the reason.

Yep I only bought it as I can't find these bits else where.

Heart is a very rich meat, if you want to do a raw meal I'd give things like chicken wings or mince to start with and move up to richer proteins like lamb over time, basically like you would swapping to a full raw diet

I like the idea of raw diet, is it healther for them? Im a bit scared of giving raw bones incase he chokes,

I wouldn't buy halal. DEmpsey can get by without it.

I had a debate about halal once, and through educating myself i found out that even thought the death SOUNDS horrible, in actual fact it can often be less stressful and faster for the animal. The animal is killed with THANKS to it for its sacrifice and the animal is not killed if it is sick or looks abused (thats for the purity of the meat not the animals welfare but ho hum)

Compared to the normal zap it and string it up even if its still concious and kicking then slit it from naval to throat, i would prefer halal. halal cuts the throat in one swift move is actually painless if done correctly as opposed to the pain they feel getting electrocuted . Thats scientific fact.

Im a vegeterian and i would would be happier with halal than normal slaughter practices.

to back my argument up:

The scientific facts

A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout

The Halal method

With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.


The Western method

Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.


Appearances can deceive

Not all is what it seems, then. Those who want to outlaw Islamic slaughter, arguing for a humane method of killing animals for food, are actually more concerned about the feelings of people than those of the animals on whose behalf they appear to speak. The stunning method makes mass butchery easier and looks more palatable for the consumer who can deceive himself that the animal did not feel any pain when he goes to buy his cleanly wrapped parcel of meat from the supermarket. Islamic slaughter, on the other hand, does not try to deny that meat consumption means that animals have to die, but is designed to ensure that their loss of life is achieved with a minimum amount of pain

http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halal.htm

lovely sunday reading. Who is up for a roast dinner then?

I don't care what 'proof' you come up with, I won't touch halal meat.

Can't argue with science

But i won't touch any meat so yah hahaa

I have also seen 'scientific proof' that proves it's less humane than other ways (can't find it now, though) because it's usually done by non trained people - the throat is slit & the animal bled to death. They do feel it & it isn't painless.

Wish I could find the article I read.

Well I'll still buy it, I don't have a problem with it.....

Also alot know stun the animal before the throat is cut

Caryll wrote:I have also seen 'scientific proof' that proves it's less humane than other ways (can't find it now, though) because it's usually done by non trained people - the throat is slit & the animal bled to death. They do feel it & it isn't painless.

Wish I could find the article I read.

No "death" is painless, but at the end of it the animal is dead. Stunning is also often done by non-trained people who don't do it properly. Its all brutal at the end of the day.

The animal cannot be stunned before the throat is cut. If it is, it isn't halal.

Yes, death is horrid, but animals will always be killed for meat - I don't eat it, but I'm realistic enough to know that - i just feel that it should be as humane as possible.

actually we had this discussion else where and for some reason alot now DO stun the animals first, no idea why

I've posted this on three forums i regularly go on and the difference in opinion is interesting.

One which is predominately americans and newzealanders, and they would cut my hands off to get the food!

One a UK one and alot off to raid Tesco

and this one where the views are more negative towards.

Hmmmm

ella wrote:I've posted this on three forums i regularly go on and the difference in opinion is interesting.

One which is predominately americans and newzealanders, and they would cut my hands off to get the food!

One a UK one and alot off to raid Tesco

and this one where the views are more negative towards.

Hmmmm

Most lamb is halal in UK and NZ i think theyre too small to stun or something. But like i said, stunning is more painful than slicing though in my opinion.

ella wrote:actually we had this discussion else where and for some reason alot now DO stun the animals first, no idea why

None of them round here do, and I know that through the women I got to know at the kids' primary school.

I'm certainly not going to argue the toss, though - you buy what you want & I'll buy what i want. Simples.

Caryll wrote:

ella wrote:actually we had this discussion else where and for some reason alot now DO stun the animals first, no idea why

None of them round here do, and I know that through the women I got to know at the kids' primary school.

I'm certainly not going to argue the toss, though - you buy what you want & I'll buy what i want. Simples.

I'm not arguing just find different views interesting

I know some in this country do not sure where abouts though

ella wrote:

Caryll wrote:

ella wrote:actually we had this discussion else where and for some reason alot now DO stun the animals first, no idea why

None of them round here do, and I know that through the women I got to know at the kids' primary school.

I'm certainly not going to argue the toss, though - you buy what you want & I'll buy what i want. Simples.

I'm not arguing just find different views interesting

I know some in this country do not sure where abouts though

I get that, but I get quite heated on the subject of animal cruelty (and that goes with our own slaughterhouses as well!), so I just don't want to get into a 'discussion' about it.

If it is stunned first then it is not halal i don't think? or are we talking in general slaughter houses? Idk! lol

No some 'slaughter' for halal but stun first. Don't know why, but they sell the meat after as halal

ella wrote:No some 'slaughter' for halal but stun first. Don't know why, but they sell the meat after as halal

They might sell it as halal, but it isn't.

Oh i know that, but they still do, so you won't know for sure HOW the animals were killed when buying halal meat unless you source it back.

It seems 90% of animals used for halal meat are stunned first.
The meat is then certified halal by the halal food authority.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2010/sep/20/halal-meat-the-truth

ella wrote:Oh i know that, but they still do, so you won't know for sure HOW the animals were killed when buying halal meat unless you source it back.

Still won't buy it.

Working dog wrote:It seems 90% of animals used for halal meat are stunned first.
The meat is then certified halal by the halal food authority.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2010/sep/20/halal-meat-the-truth

That was 2 years ago, and caused an absolute stink amongst muslims (at least in this area), who insisted that the killing went back to the way it is authorised in the koran. That certainly happened round here.

ella wrote:No some 'slaughter' for halal but stun first. Don't know why, but they sell the meat after as halal

Well that's a bit of a crock then. They stun it just to make sure it can't move which isn't what halal is about.

Hayley wrote:

ella wrote:No some 'slaughter' for halal but stun first. Don't know why, but they sell the meat after as halal

Well that's a bit of a crock then. They stun it just to make sure it can't move which isn't what halal is about.

Yep it is, and in some places is common place.

all halal meat is butchered by trained people not just anyone in this country it is the law
and most of your chicken and lamb in this country is also halal but not sold as halal (elwoods standard)for chicken which most supermarkets use as there supplier

Yeah that's true warren. I don't think the general public even know how most chickens are killed, and its the most popular meat!

yep i bet most people don't have a clue

We're not talking chickens, we're talking sheep & cows.

And pigs, of course.

Well, I wasn't going to pursue this (as mentioned before) but:-

If I was a "food" animal, which would I prefer as my method of death?

a) strung up by my hind legs (whether a prayer was said over me or not) whilst fully conscious, and then have my throat cut and bleed to death

or

b) be stunned so I didn't what was happening, and then be strung up by my hind legs, have my throat cut and bleed to death

I know which I'd prefer - b

Yes, it's all horrible but humans are omnivores and designed to eat meat (sorry to you veggies out there) and an animal is going to killed for us and our dogs to eat, so I prefer to believe that any animal I eat has been slaughtered in the most humane way possible ie knowing as least as possible about it.

yes but any animal going to slaughter suffers fear, then all ways they are killed , i would never call 'humane' not matter which method.

Anyone ever been to a slaughterhouse? not the erm nicest of places

I often tip over to vegetarianism, and its always after the same thought. Its not the way the animal is slaughtered, thats pretty quick whatever way. But the sheer fear that the animal suffers as it approaches slaughter. You have to see it to believe it and you can smell it too. It is truly awful.

Halal animals don't get strung up, they are put in a crush and then it is carried out. Trust me you would not get a concious cow/pig/sheep by the back legs to string it up, that is the only reason they are shocked to stop them moving, it started for that reason and had nothing to do with animal welfare.

And why not chickens caryll? Whats the difference?

No, slaughterhouses are not the nicest of places, who could expect them to be.

What I have seen of many different animals during my long years has shown to me that animals do accept the death of another animal calmly (whether their own species or not) and do not relate it to their inner selves. I have seen animals from rodents and birds to sheep, cattle and horses wander around the bodies of their deceased fellow species without any troubling "am I next" thoughts. These were natural deaths in the field (or wherever).

The trouble comes when these "prey" animals (the ones we and our dogs eat) are taken by lorry to the market place and then the slaughterhouse. This does upset them and they generally yell their heads off. They are being herded from one place (which they got used to for a few days or months) to another. But I still do not believe that they anticipate "death" - something new undoubtedly, but not their own destruction.

But, at the end of the day, these animals ARE going to die, like it or not - if not for our human consumption, then for our dogs' consumption. And I still maintain that bleeding to death whilst strung up by the hind legs is more humanely achieved whilst the animal is stunned than conscious.

It doesn't get strung up until it is dead with halal, the animal must have collapsed within 15 seconds or they intercept it and take further measures to make it die. Its usually down by then anyway, at which point it is totally unconscious and oblivious. I dread to think of the amount of animals that have not been stunned correctly that DO get strung up to get slit, and then by the time they have got the roped up and slung up they are coming around from the stun anyway so are again fully concious AND upside down.

Its all horrible in the long run. esp in the less animal welfare states. Some of the machines they use for chickens are horrific and well past the boarder of torture.

Hayley - "It doesn't get strung up until it is dead with halal, the animal must have collapsed within 15 seconds or they intercept it and take further measures to make it die"

So the animal has its throat slit whilst standing and alive? and if it doesn't collapse within 15 seconds they " take further measures to make it die"
?

What are these further measures?

If I was this animal I would prefer to be stunned out of my senses before ANY of these measures take place.

by the way you wont find a pig getting killed the halal way
and the extra measure is if the animal don't go down in set time a knife to the heart to amediate dispatch the animal .
and the halal way is far better for chickens

new Staffy owner wrote:No, slaughterhouses are not the nicest of places, who could expect them to be.

What I have seen of many different animals during my long years has shown to me that animals do accept the death of another animal calmly (whether their own species or not) and do not relate it to their inner selves. I have seen animals from rodents and birds to sheep, cattle and horses wander around the bodies of their deceased fellow species without any troubling "am I next" thoughts. These were natural deaths in the field (or wherever).

The trouble comes when these "prey" animals (the ones we and our dogs eat) are taken by lorry to the market place and then the slaughterhouse. This does upset them and they generally yell their heads off. They are being herded from one place (which they got used to for a few days or months) to another. But I still do not believe that they anticipate "death" - something new undoubtedly, but not their own destruction.

But, at the end of the day, these animals ARE going to die, like it or not - if not for our human consumption, then for our dogs' consumption. And I still maintain that bleeding to death whilst strung up by the hind legs is more humanely achieved whilst the animal is stunned than conscious.

you've clearly not seen an animal suffering from fear before being slaughtered, many argue that is worst for them then the actual death.

I agree it's better for the animal to be stunned i'm not arguing that point, but why do people pass up the meat when the animals have died anyway? surely thats a waste of their life?