Run in with a staffy !

So, took my kids to school with Tank as I do everyday.

Just outside the school gates there was an elderly lady with a red staffy.

As I approached with Tank, she said her dog was 'fine with other dog's '
Great I thought, Tank approached the red staffy, they sniffed each other, seemed fine, then out of nowhere the red kinda snarled n barked and when for Tanks neck !

I was like 'wtf' ur dog obviously isn't ok with other dogs, she laughed it off saying that usually she's ok..,

Sigh, poor Tank looked upset.. I'm just glad I put his new collar on him today which is a 5cm wide one which covers his neck, so red just got a gob full of collar thankfully.

Anyway, we retreated and carried on the walk down the field where Tank enjoyed a bat* crazy run with his GSD x rottie friend and the black poodle.

This was Tanks first time having a bad reaction from another dog..... Why did it have to be another staffy ?!

A couple of Staffs have had the same reaction with Loki too, one of whom is actually friendly to all other dogs he meets. He must annoy them. Glad Tank didn't get hurt though

, idiot owner unfortantly and the kinda owner that tarnishes the breed.
If her dog aint ok with other dogs then she should bloomin say so, hope tanks ok xx

I hope this does not put Tank off meeting other dogs, poor Tank just wanted to be friends too

I'm always very cautious around other staffies because so many staffy owners are not responsible and a minority of them seem to enjoy watching their dogs be aggressive to other dogs. I don't get it, why would you want your dog to attack other dogs?

There is a very aggressive staffy near my place and the owner keeps on bringing him to the off lead park. He keeps him on the lead but my argument to him was why bring such an aggressive dog to an off lead area? My Harley is such a friendly boy and went up to him to say hello and got a bleeding lip for his troubles. I don get it.

Unfortunately there are a couple of staffies near us that reacts like this but there are also a couple of staffies that my 2 love so got to be a dog thing , at least you know now if you see them again

Thankfully Tank is a soppy muppet so altho shocked he's unphased. Whereas I'm glad I didn't have my girl Diesel with me, she dosent take any *,she's very springy, bouncy, excitable and reactive so I dread to think what she woulda done, even tho she gets on with other dogs usually I'm always guarded with her as any responsible owner should be.

i disagree with the sentiments expressed so far.
all staffy owners know, or should know, that staffies can be dog aggressive.
a responsible staffy owner will never, ever, put their dog into a position that could result in a 'incident"
i.m.o you are at fault for encroaching on the other dogs space.
you may see your little fella as "goofy'' the other dog obviously seen him as a threat.

dougie wrote:i disagree with the sentiments expressed so far.
all staffy owners know, or should know, that staffies can be dog aggressive.
a responsible staffy owner will never, ever, put their dog into a position that could result in a 'incident"
i.m.o you are at fault for encroaching on the other dogs space.
you may see your little fella as "goofy'' the other dog obviously seen him as a threat.

Perhaps a responsible staffy owner who has an aggressive dog should consider a muzzle when in a public place. That will
1. Signal to others the dog may have an aggression problem
2. Protect other friendly dogs who may come into contact with the aggressive dog.

BTW, I have had 2 staffies and both have been non-aggressive to other dogs. I think the owner has a lot to do with it.

Harley wrote:

dougie wrote:i disagree with the sentiments expressed so far.
all staffy owners know, or should know, that staffies can be dog aggressive.
a responsible staffy owner will never, ever, put their dog into a position that could result in a 'incident"
i.m.o you are at fault for encroaching on the other dogs space.
you may see your little fella as "goofy'' the other dog obviously seen him as a threat.

Perhaps a responsible staffy owner who has an aggressive dog should consider a muzzle when in a public place. That will
1. Signal to others the dog may have an aggression problem
2. Protect other friendly dogs who may come into contact with the aggressive dog.

BTW, I have had 2 staffies and both have been non-aggressive to other dogs. I think the owner has a lot to do with it.

you are missing the point.

which is, don't put your dog in the position where it could be, for want of a better description, in danger.
& definately don't assume all dogs react the same in a given situation.
would you walk your supposedly non aggressive staffies into the space occupied by a dog you don't know?
damn sure i wouldn't. the other lady obvious considered her dog wasn't aggressive either. she said as much.
her dog could have been acting protectively, it could have even been jealous. could have been psycho. who knows. there could have been any amount of reasons why it reacted the way it did.
the bottom line is, one dog strange invaded another strange dogs space.
a savvy owner would never knowingly allow that to happen.
it is my opinion the o.p was at fault here.

& i have had a few more staffies than two & altho i would not describe any of them as ''aggressive'', they aren't shrinking violets either. i have, on occasions, had some amp up for no apparent reason. be it body language , be it a tension in the air, what ever it was, it was ''out of character'' but it still happened. it doesn't take much to set them off.
i know these days it is p.c. to ''blame the owner'', i don't necessarily entirely agree with that theory either.
they are dogs doing what dogs do. what dogs have always done & what dogs will always do....if owners put them in a position to do it i.e.

I understand your point, I see it a little differently though.

Dogs are social animals, what you are suggesting is not letting them socialize because there is a possibility that there may be an adverse reaction.

My position is if a dog is balanced and socialized from young then their first reaction when not happy with another dog is not to bite and attack. There may be a growl or other body language way before it turns into a full blown fight. I think the onus should be on the aggressive dogs owners to keep their dogs away from social situations rather than the other way around. Perfect example is off lead areas. Why would you take an aggressive dog to an off lead area where other dogs are happy to sniff each other and play happily?

Your point is valid, we should be on the lookout and protect our dogs from dangerous situations. I just think that owners of dogs who are aggressive or unpredictable around other dogs should not be allowing other dogs near theirs until they rectify the behavioral issues.

you are still missing my point.
i'll repeat the question i asked previously but more directly for a yes/no answer to see if it will better display my concerns with this scenario.
.
would you walk your dog(s) up for a close encounter with a strange dog you knew absolutely nothing about? yes/no?

i am actually surprised that someone has.
& to my way of thinking i am very disappointed that the ''accused'' is being blamed for the outcome.
& while i am even more disappointed it was a staffy, i can honestly say i am not totally surprised......& this is not breed specific concern. it holds true for any breed or xbreed.

socialisation isn't a matter of instant confrontation, no matter how innocent the intentions. it's a gradual thing.
& dogs aren't ''social'' outside their own ''pack''....they are suspicious, they are protective.

these are just my opinions on the issue, i don't expect everyone to agree with me.
altho i do consider it is good advice.
when in doubt....don't.

My Harley is very social outside his "pack".

And yes, we do meet new dogs, at least a couple a week. I usually ask the owner if their dog is ok and observe the body language and we have only had 1 issue, and yes it was with another staffy unfortunately. The owner of the dog was very aggressive and confrontational so I can see why the dog bit Harley without provocation and warning.

My boy has had contact with other dogs daily for his entire life, once on his morning walk and once on his afternoon walk. We have an off lead area near my place and both Harley and I have made lots of friends there. I think dragging Harley away from other dogs would make him suspicious of them and maybe protective. The fact the we usually meet and greet other dogs has made him comfortable and relaxed when he sees another dog. Like I said I understand your point, but I have approached things differently and so far am very happy with the Behaviour and attitude of my boy.

dougie wrote:would you walk your dog(s) up for a close encounter with a strange dog you knew absolutely nothing about? yes/no?

No, but socialisation is very important for the stafford breed. The woman with the red stafford said she was ok with other dogs, what was Jackie supposed to say "You're obviously a liar so I won't let my dog near yours!"?

I don't see a real fault with either owner, actually. Jackie did right by asking if the red staff was friendly & the other owner was probably just as shocked when her dog reacted badly.

It happens. Dogs, like people, take dislikes to certain others of their species for no apparent reason sometimes. This was one of those times. Tank was on a lead, the red staff was on a lead so both were controlled enough for there to be no real harm.

Dougie, it's like saying your dog should never socialise with other dogs unless they're dogs of friends and family members. Certainly you shouldn't just run up to random dogs and let your dog play with it from the off, but meeting them and it being done while keeping an eye on them is perfectly fine in my eyes. I doubt the owner was lying when she said her Staff was friendly; why lie when it could end badly for your dog or the other person's dog and get you into trouble? Even friendly dogs react badly to certain dogs or certain situations. The reason isn't always clear, but that's not a reason to say Jackieb was at fault or wasn't being responsible. She asked the owner beforehand. Having a bad experience doesn't mean something should never happen. If that were the case, no-one would be in a relationship

I must admit, I have experienced the "yeah he's fine with other dogs" .. on a few occasions, to find its either absolute sh!te, or for whatever reason their dog dosent like the look of Max, and goes for him in a split second (you dont often get much warning with staffy's as you know!)

to that end, I never take a strangers word for it, and always make sure I'm stood in a way that I can yank him backwards outa the way if it goes pear shaped ... (My last staffy was a demon with other dogs so I'm well used to it now )

Andy wrote:I must admit, I have experienced the "yeah he's fine with other dogs" .. on a few occasions, to find its either absolute sh!te, or for whatever reason their dog dosent like the look of Max, and goes for him in a split second (you dont often get much warning with staffy's as you know!)

to that end, I never take a strangers word for it, and always make sure I'm stood in a way that I can yank him backwards outa the way if it goes pear shaped ... (My last staffy was a demon with other dogs so I'm well used to it now )

absolutely.
realists are my favourite people.

Andy wrote:I must admit, I have experienced the "yeah he's fine with other dogs" .. on a few occasions, to find its either absolute sh!te, or for whatever reason their dog dosent like the look of Max, and goes for him in a split second (you dont often get much warning with staffy's as you know!)

to that end, I never take a strangers word for it, and always make sure I'm stood in a way that I can yank him backwards outa the way if it goes pear shaped ... (My last staffy was a demon with other dogs so I'm well used to it now )

Sure, it happens! My Bandit was extremely da (had to keep him away from other dogs), and Dempsey is unpredictable (proper introductions are essential). I always keep a damn good hold of his lead when introducing to other dogs for that reason. But all I was saying is that I didn't think either owner was particularly to blame. Dogs (as long as they are friendly) benefit from socialisation, and to that end should be introduced to as many dogs as possible especially in the early stages. It's wrong to automatically keep them away from all other dogs in case it goes wrong. As long as you have control of your dog, and the other person has control of theirs then there shouldn't be a problem. Or rather if there is a problem it can be handled!

Caryll wrote:

Andy wrote:I must admit, I have experienced the "yeah he's fine with other dogs" .. on a few occasions, to find its either absolute sh!te, or for whatever reason their dog dosent like the look of Max, and goes for him in a split second (you dont often get much warning with staffy's as you know!)

to that end, I never take a strangers word for it, and always make sure I'm stood in a way that I can yank him backwards outa the way if it goes pear shaped ... (My last staffy was a demon with other dogs so I'm well used to it now )

Sure, it happens! My Bandit was extremely da (had to keep him away from other dogs), and Dempsey is unpredictable (proper introductions are essential). I always keep a damn good hold of his lead when introducing to other dogs for that reason. But all I was saying is that I didn't think either owner was particularly to blame. Dogs (as long as they are friendly) benefit from socialisation, and to that end should be introduced to as many dogs as possible especially in the early stages. It's wrong to automatically keep them away from all other dogs in case it goes wrong. As long as you have control of your dog, and the other person has control of theirs then there shouldn't be a problem. Or rather if there is a problem it can be handled!

Good advice here and the attitude I take. If there is no body language to suggest different and both owners are happy and in control then dogs meeting is the best way forward. But if you do it always be prepared , gentle and ready to respond. This is no different to any other dog breed

Caryll wrote:

Andy wrote:I must admit, I have experienced the "yeah he's fine with other dogs" .. on a few occasions, to find its either absolute sh!te, or for whatever reason their dog dosent like the look of Max, and goes for him in a split second (you dont often get much warning with staffy's as you know!)

to that end, I never take a strangers word for it, and always make sure I'm stood in a way that I can yank him backwards outa the way if it goes pear shaped ... (My last staffy was a demon with other dogs so I'm well used to it now )

Sure, it happens! My Bandit was extremely da (had to keep him away from other dogs), and Dempsey is unpredictable (proper introductions are essential). I always keep a damn good hold of his lead when introducing to other dogs for that reason. But all I was saying is that I didn't think either owner was particularly to blame. Dogs (as long as they are friendly) benefit from socialisation, and to that end should be introduced to as many dogs as possible especially in the early stages. It's wrong to automatically keep them away from all other dogs in case it goes wrong. As long as you have control of your dog, and the other person has control of theirs then there shouldn't be a problem. Or rather if there is a problem it can be handled!

Absolutely, I dont keep Max away from any dog as long as its under control, he is REALLY social and has never shown any aggressive behavour .. but I would never take another persons word for it .. cus the dogs have minds of their own, and like us, have off days which can make the soppiest of pooches snap without warning

faith some what restored, it appears there is actually more old fashion, dog savvy common sense in play out there than the airy fairy fantasy world proffered by p.c. dreamers.
knowing your dogs temperament/personality is only half of the equation.
what you don't about the other half is where problems can surface.

responsible parents don't let their kids walk up to & eyeball a strange dog.
responsible dog owners don't either.

eye contact being the trigger for more incidents than anything else.

dougie wrote:faith some what restored, it appears there is actually more old fashion, dog savvy common sense in play out there than the airy fairy fantasy world proffered by p.c. dreamers.

Which airy fairy p.c.dreamers are you talking about?

dougie wrote:faith some what restored, it appears there is actually more old fashion, dog savvy common sense in play out there than the airy fairy fantasy world proffered by p.c. dreamers.
knowing your dogs temperament/personality is only half of the equation.
what you don't about the other half is where problems can surface.

responsible parents don't let their kids walk up to & eyeball a strange dog.
responsible dog owners don't either.

eye contact being the trigger for more incidents than anything else.

I may have to buy Harley some dark sunnies so he dosnt eyeball any dogs anymore. Lol.

just read this post and have to say my dog is not protective and suspicious out of her "pack" all she wants to do is play with every dog she meets, ans yes am always aware that other dogs might not be so playful but if the other dog doesn't want to play Diesel just trots off! If i dog is not 100% always friendly then it is up to the owner to inform but as sad previously, sometimes even the ones that say their fine can growl and snap. Then some ignorant people dont even say anything let alone warn you that their dogs can be a bit off sometimes then just chuckle when you get a fright and jump when their dog just growls and snaps at your happy little pup

Harley wrote:

I may have to buy Harley some dark sunnies so he dosnt eyeball any dogs anymore. Lol.

sigh,
& there in lies the problem. some have no idea at all & can't recognised good advice until they've caused an avoidable ''incident''

so when little bonzo bounces up to a strange dog & gets his face chewed off....

what's the plan?
why, blame the other dog &/or the other owner of course.
my dog is ''socialised'', he/she can go anywhere & do anything he/she wants to.

sure he can.
chomp.

however, if you are really lucky, the other owner will be more savvy than you & what could have been a nasty experience will be avoided.

I think you should re-read this thread again.

Your advice is to avoid social situations incase dogs get into a stare off and start chewing each others faces off.

Many including me have said that we approach other dogs with caution and look for signs the other dog is aggressive and talk to the owner.

I dont know what else to say, if you dont agree you are entitled to your opinion. The fact that people dont agree does not make them "PC Dreamers" as you stated. Everyone has had different experiences, there is no absolute right or wrong.

someone certainly should reread the thread & that someone is you.

what i said & maintain, is the o.p is at fault here for letting her dog approach a dog she didn't know anything about. close enough for the dog, on a lead, to grab it ffs. to me, that is just bloody ridiculous.

then she says her dog was ''attacked'' & most here blame the other dog & the other owner.
i don't....i blame her.....altho the other woman was just as naive.
if they both had just used some common sense it would never of happened.

btw.

dogs take ''eyeballing'' as a challenge. i thought every savvy owner would know that. particularly owners of breeds with a bit of fire in them.

I can see the point of both of you. Having had a very da dog (dangerous to other dogs), I also don't trust strange dogs or many of their owners until I have observed them with their dogs to see who is boss etc. However, sometimes crap happens and it is never pleasant. On a forum such as this, we try to support each other and educate based upon our experience. Hopeful that is what you intended dougie. It just comes across a bit rough. I see your point but I find a less abrupt delivery might be more readily accepted.

dougie wrote:someone certainly should reread the thread & that someone is you.

what i said & maintain, is the o.p is at fault here for letting her dog approach a dog she didn't know anything about. close enough for the dog, on a lead, to grab it ffs. to me, that is just bloody ridiculous.

then she says her dog was ''attacked'' & most here blame the other dog & the other owner.
i don't....i blame her.....altho the other woman was just as naive.I
if they both had just used some common sense it would never of happened.

btw.

dogs take ''eyeballing'' as a challenge. i thought every savvy owner would know that. particularly owners of breeds with a bit of fire in them.

That's your opinion and good luck to you.

just drifting thru some another threads & noticed your harley is only seven months old?.......he is a baby......& a roughhouser even now....as they are.

wait until he is three....then you see the truth of the ''opinion'' you now choose to denigrate.

but i hope you realise the value of good advice long before a lesson is hard learned.

dougie wrote:sigh,
& there in lies the problem. some have no idea at all & can't recognised good advice until they've caused an avoidable ''incident''

so when little bonzo bounces up to a strange dog & gets his face chewed off....

But that isn't what happened here, is it? Both dogs were on lead & the situation wasn't serious, just a bit anxiety-making! Nobody should allow their dog to run, willy nilly, up to a strange dog. But even careful intros can go wrong - as it did here. As I said before, neither owner was particularly to blame, it's just one of those things.

dougie wrote:btw.

dogs take ''eyeballing'' as a challenge. i thought every savvy owner would know that. particularly owners of breeds with a bit of fire in them.

Yes, we do know that, and by the sound of it there was no 'eyeballing'. Get your facts straight before you level accusations. The op's dog is a pup & was just sniffing, the red staff seemed friendly until it snapped.

dougie wrote:just drifting thru some another threads & noticed your harley is only seven months old?.......he is a baby......& a roughhouser even now....as they are.

wait until he is three....then you see the truth of the ''opinion'' you now choose to denigrate.

but i hope you realise the value of good advice long before a lesson is hard learned.

You know, your opinion is welcome, but don't expect everybody to automatically accept that it's right! We all have opinions and they're all different. That doesn't make them any more or less valid.

Just because Harley is a 'roughhouser' at 7 months doesn't mean he's going to be completely da at age 3. There's a lot of time between now & then, and a mature dog will often calm down & get less aggressive as he gets older. That's one reason I don't like to neuter early - it allows the dog to become fully mature & self-confident. My opinion. No more nor less valid than anybody else's.

Blimey, 2 pages later... I think my original post has been done to death now. I appreciate all opinions/advice/support. Going bk on topic of my original post, I know I wasn't at fault. It's common courtesy to not approach any dog without speaking to the owner first... Seemed ok, but yea, it didn't turn out so well.

My Tank is very well known in my village, everyone knows he's soft as *. It must have been one of those things.... Live n learn. Dogs can snap.

Jackieb wrote:
My Tank is very well known in my village, everyone knows he's soft as *. It must have been one of those things.... Live n learn. Dogs can snap.

Absolutely! Just one of those things & something to put down to experience!

dougie wrote:i disagree with the sentiments expressed so far.
all staffy owners know, or should know, that staffies can be dog aggressive.
a responsible staffy owner will never, ever, put their dog into a position that could result in a 'incident"
i.m.o you are at fault for encroaching on the other dogs space.
you may see your little fella as "goofy'' the other dog obviously seen him as a threat.

Its a bit to the point but I agree with this, the amount of times owners say my dogs never done this before is scarey. I hold my hands up to the sociol dogs out there but the way the breed is hotwired makes it special and handled a little different from most breeds

Can I ask for some calm here? Dougie (especially) and Con (Harley's owner) have set each off which is ... unfortunate.

Poor Jackieb - you didn't expect this when you opened this thread did you.

For the record, Jackie's dog and the red bitch were both on leads when the owners properly introduced themselves. The bitch snapped - unfortunate, but both dogs were on leads and in control of their owners so no real harm was done. Maybe the bitch was coming into/coming out of season when they can be cranky - who knows.

Con (Harley's) point was regarding designated off lead areas, where I think we would agree that anyone who enters these areas will realise that dogs are going to be off lead and therefore, if the owners have any sense at all, non DA. If an owner of a DA dog chooses to enter this area with his DA dog, even if his dog is on lead, then he would realise that off lead dogs will bound up to his dog to play.

Lastly, even if your dog is on a lead, don't forget that aggression and anxiety can run down the lead to the dog (mentioning no names but watch where my eyes rest).

Oh, not lastly but finally, Caryll is the voice of calm reason here - please read her post.

new Staffy owner wrote: Maybe the bitch was coming into/coming out of season when they can be cranky - who knows.

I have nothing more to add your honour !

Andy

new Staffy owner wrote:Can I ask for some calm here? Dougie (especially) and Con (Harley's owner) have set each off which is ... unfortunate.

Poor Jackieb - you didn't expect this when you opened this thread did you.

For the record, Jackie's dog and the red bitch were both on leads when the owners properly introduced themselves. The bitch snapped - unfortunate, but both dogs were on leads and in control of their owners so no real harm was done. Maybe the bitch was coming into/coming out of season when they can be cranky - who knows.

Con (Harley's) point was regarding designated off lead areas, where I think we would agree that anyone who enters these areas will realise that dogs are going to be off lead and therefore, if the owners have any sense at all, non DA. If an owner of a DA dog chooses to enter this area with his DA dog, even if his dog is on lead, then he would realise that off lead dogs will bound up to his dog to play.

Lastly, even if your dog is on a lead, don't forget that aggression and anxiety can run down the lead to the dog (mentioning no names but watch where my eyes rest).

Oh, not lastly but finally, Caryll is the voice of calm reason here - please read her post.

firstly, but not lastly, mine is the voice of experience. please read my post.

how can both dogs be under the control of their owners when one moves close enough for the other to bite it?
neither dog was under effective control.
however, the owner who put her dog in the position to be bitten needs to scolded, not sympathised with. she put her dog at risk. there's no excuse for that. none. & that it is only a puppy is even more lamentable.
experienced dog handlers shorten their leads when in the company of strange/unknown dogs.
that is what experienced handlers do. that is having their dogs under control.

calm reason?.....you think so?.....needless to say, i am not of that opinion.

a fool & his money are soon parted.
similarly a fool & their dog.

Yes LOL Andy, but without being feminist here you know it's true. Entire bitches can, at certain points in their cycle, get exasperated with male attention and tell a boy off, even if he's a puppy and has no idea what it's all about.

Anyway, it was just a thought.

new Staffy owner wrote:Yes LOL Andy, but without being feminist here you know it's true. Entire bitches can, at certain points in their cycle, get exasperated with male attention and tell a boy off, even if he's a puppy and has no idea what it's all about.

Anyway, it was just a thought.

unless there is another childishly sarcastic dig like the sunglasses rubbish, this may, maybe, probably, could be, my last effort at good advice on this thread...but hey, maybe, just maybe, the lightbulb will click on........somewhere out there in the ether.

the WHY has no relevance here. none, zero, zippo.

it's the HOW that is the issue.

someone praise be, may just be reading this thread & decide next time they are in similar situation to the o.p. they will shorten their lead & make sure their dog is out of harms way....just in case.
just like the people who actually know what they are about do, especially the experienced staffy owners who leave nothing to chance.
the bottom line?
staffies can be dog aggressive....live with it. respect it.

Dougie, as I've said before, your's is not the only opinion, neither are youths only person with experience here & you are being extremely arrogant to say so.

Yes, staffs can be da. Been there, done that. But they are not all da, and if socialised properly they can be very friendly. I repeat, both dogs were under control - had they not been then there would have been a much worse situation than there was.

If you never socialise your dog you will always end up with a dog that is either da or at least suspicious of other dogs. With the way the Stafford is regarded by the general public nowadays, this can only result in even more problems for the breed.

If you have nothing more to say other than "I'm right, you're wrong" please don't bother adding any more to this thread.

new Staffy owner wrote:Yes LOL Andy, but without being feminist here you know it's true. Entire bitches can, at certain points in their cycle, get exasperated with male attention and tell a boy off, even if he's a puppy and has no idea what it's all about.

Anyway, it was just a thought.

.. that wasnt a jibe at the females of the species, it was meant to highlight the unpredictability of one dog meeting another for the first time! .... you just dont know whats going to happen .... so I'm with Dougie on this one