Missy has randomly started peeing on the floor:(

Hi everyone.

have had missy for over 4 months now and she has never done this before. she is walked regularly (2 or 3 45min - 1hour walks and a couple of 10-30min walks aswell. she is also let into the shared garden regularly if she needs a pee.)

She has done this 5 times in the last week, but also once or twice the week before. is very strange because as i said she is well house trained and is out alot.

she does not seem to be ill and is being her usual playfull, mischevious self.

she seems to like the rug in the hall although it is not always where she will go. i have being punishing her by pointing at it and shouting something like "whats this! Bad! bad!".( at which point she will look guilty as sin,put her head down and try to cower away from the area) i have also rubed her nose in it the last couple of times she has done it. she is then put to bed and recieves no attention.

i would feel terible punishing her if it is somehow not her fault.
my mum sugested she may have a chill in her bladder/kidney?

could she be marking territory?


any thoughts?

cheers

Rubbing noses in urine is not the way to go.
She may very well have a UTI (urinary tract infection).
Take her to the vet.
And quit yelling - it's pointless, and confusing for the dog.

I wouldn't punish her, just clear it up and take her outside, back to basics again.

I would remove the rug and anything else she has scented.

If it continues ask your vet, but its only 4 months they all need time to settle you all need time to adjust Xx

i agree that rubbing her nose in it is a little harsh but she has to know what she is doing is unacceptablle. as i said she is out often and will signal when she wants out.

and as for yelling ,when they mis behave i dont think yelling is a problem. dogs respond to the tone of your voice and will know that you are angry at there behaviour....

Rubbing there nose in it is not good training, nor is shouting at a dog.

Back to basics and positive reinforcement

janey wrote:

I wouldn't punish her, just clear it up and take her outside, back to basics again.

I would remove the rug and anything else she has scented.

If it continues ask your vet, but its only 4 months they all need time to settle you all need time to adjust Xx

I have been taking her out straight after she has done it and have started praising her when she goes outside.
the last thing i want to do is punish her but she realy can not be peeing all over the house.

have cleaned the rug with biological washing powder as this apparantly removes the scent better but may just remove it.

She is realy well settled, has been for a long time and has been so well behaved in every other aspect.

its very strange :S

i do use possitive reinforcement. thats how she has been taught. i also occasionaly use a clicker i got recently. i never usualy have to shout at her because she is generaly very well behaved...

Kev13 wrote:i agree that rubbing her nose in it is a little harsh but she has to know what she is doing is unacceptablle. as i said she is out often and will signal when she wants out.

and as for yelling ,when they mis behave i dont think yelling is a problem. dogs respond to the tone of your voice and will know that you are angry at there behaviour....

Rubbing her nose in it is teaching her to find somewhere else to pee where it won't be detected - like behind a sofa.
Dogs respond to tone - what's volume got to do with it?

Think about it - you're shouting because you're annoyed at her - that's a failure on your part.

Shouting at her doesn't help if she's already done it. It just confuses her. She looks guilty because she knows the wee on the floor is bad, but she doesn't understand that her actually doing it is bad. If you say "no," even a second after it's already done, it has no effect whatsoever. You have to catch her in the middle of it, a simple, "no," and show her where she is meant to go. Plus, shouting implies that you were frustrated with her, which just kind of confuses the dog even more because they won't understand where that frustration is coming from. And I'm pretty sure rubbing their nose in it has the same effect, in that it's not a method that the dog will gain any understanding from. They're not like people, you can't really explain to the dog what they did wrong five minutes ago, whereas you can with a kid. I mean, think about it this way: dogs don't have to use words with other dogs to let them know they're doing something wrong. Most of the time, a simple growl and change in body language at the right time will be enough to let the dog know clearly that it isn't acceptable. The more words you use, the less effect they'll have.

She might have something wrong though, that doesn't necessarily cause a lot of pain or other symptoms, so maybe take her to the vet just to be safe?

Working dog wrote:

Kev13 wrote:i agree that rubbing her nose in it is a little harsh but she has to know what she is doing is unacceptablle. as i said she is out often and will signal when she wants out.

and as for yelling ,when they mis behave i dont think yelling is a problem. dogs respond to the tone of your voice and will know that you are angry at there behaviour....

Rubbing her nose in it is teaching her to find somewhere else to pee where it won't be detected - like behind a sofa.
Dogs respond to tone - what's volume got to do with it?

Think about it - you're shouting because you're annoyed at her - that's a failure on your part.

you have a point. rubbing her nose in it may encourage her to find somewhere else to pee, but hopefully that somewhere will be outside and not behind the sofa??

of course im shouting because i am annoyed and i am trying to convey my anger and frustration to the dog. she obviously understands i am angry and will slink off to bed and look realy guilty. she knows she should not pee indoors!!

and i dont shout and scream at her i just show her her mess and say (quite loud) "No! bad! bad girl!" or similar in a stern harsh tone...have only rubbed her nose twice. last thing i want to do but she has to understand it is not acceptable...

She understands you're angry and slinks away to get away from that fact - the guilty look is a coincidental thing many dogs do.
She has no clue you're annoyed because she peed where you don't want her to.
Yelling after the fact is just confusing and upsetting for the dog - once you understand that, and understand that she doesn't know it's wrong, you'll feel less tension and annoyance yourself.
Back to basics training, and a visit to the vet.

Exactly what Working Dog said. As I said before, if you say "no," even a couple of seconds after they've finished doing something wrong, it won't help. When Loki would wee in the house, if he'd just finished before I got to him, I wouldn't bother saying anything because it's already too late. Dogs do sense the anger and that is why she looks sad, because she knows you feel angry, but she won't know why. You'll have to stop thinking of her as a person in that respect; she's a dog, and shouting at a dog doesn't help. A simple no will do. Hell, Loki responds better to "ah!" than he does to words. The more words you say, the more useless it becomes, like people who ramble to their dogs about what they're doing is wrong and whatever. They're just meaningless words, dogs rely on tone and body language. Most importantly, they respond to these things with calmness. If you're angry at her, she won't be likely to listen because it's not an emotion dogs feel, it's not one they recognise as anything other than weak behaviour.

If you want her to stop, watch when she acts like she might do it, and tell her, "No," while she actually does it, then get her to go outside. If that doesn't work, definitely try taking her to a vet just in case. But really, above all you will have to work on your mindset towards it, because you think that dogs will respond to the same things people will, but they don't, they're different.

Sorry if any of this sounds harsh or arrogant, I don't mean it to be, just that it's more beneficial for you and your dog if you stop shouting at her or correcting her after she's done something. I used to do the same with my old dog, Zac, when I didn't know any better. I'd point to the couch he'd been on and say, "What's that? Bad," and he'd look guilty. He knew that the state of the couch was bad, but didn't understand that him actually being on it was the problem. The end result was a dog who, for the rest of his life, would lie on the couch when we were out, and get off the couch and look very guilty and sad as soon as we walked in, because he knew we'd tell him off over the couch being as it was, but he couldn't, for the life of him, make the connection that him being on it was the problem.

If there isn't any tramatic event or new stressfull noises such as construction I would advise a trip to the vet as she could have a UTI or cystitus. As already said rubbing her nose in it will lead her to find other places to go which might not be where you want. Unless you catch her in the act she won't know why you are upset and just confuse her.

Punishing her for peeing inside will only teach her to be afraid of going when you're there, making it more likely she'll stop going outside when you take her and instead find a more suitable and safe place, probably inside when you're not watching. You're effectively reverse toilet training her.

Take her to the vet and make sure there's no medical reason; if not then just go back to basics - ensure she's supervised at all times in the house and take her out frequently, treating her when she pees outside.

ETA: Dogs don't know right from wrong. The 'guilty' behaviour is her trying to apease you as she's afraid and doesn't want the punishment to continue.

I totally agree with working dog & galadriel. Shouting & rubbing her nose in it will do nothing except frighten & confuse her - which I'm sure you don't want!

I would also check with the vet for a UTI.

Kev13 wrote:Hi everyone.

have had missy for over 4 months now and she has never done this before. she is walked regularly (2 or 3 45min - 1hour walks and a couple of 10-30min walks aswell. she is also let into the shared garden regularly if she needs a pee.)

It is still early days and she is still adapting to her new home, new people and new house rules, I have found it takes about a year for a dog to be completely settled in a new home and happy with the rules. There are dogs that don't take this long but more that give the impression they are fine but are not.

She has done this 5 times in the last week, but also once or twice the week before. is very strange because as i said she is well house trained and is out alot.

she does not seem to be ill and is being her usual playfull, mischevious self.

Personally I would take her to the vets with a sample of her wee just to make sure there isn't anything wrong, we can't see if there is a problem with her waterworks just as people can't see when we have one.

she seems to like the rug in the hall although it is not always where she will go. i have being punishing her by pointing at it and shouting something like "whats this! Bad! bad!".( at which point she will look guilty as sin,put her head down and try to cower away from the area) i have also rubed her nose in it the last couple of times she has done it. she is then put to bed and recieves no attention.

She may have been taught to toilet on pads or paper, this can made dogs toilet on rugs, I have the same problem with Cyril. Dogs that have been trained to toilet on pads or paper have been taught to toilet in the house and it can be very difficult to get them to toilet outside.

How would you feel if someone treated you like that if you had an accident? Even us adults can have accidents if we have something wrong with us. She is a dog not a human, she doesn't understand English only dog, when you treat her in this manner she doesn't know what she has done, she doesn't understand that it is because she toileted in the house, only that the person she thought loved her doesn't.

i would feel terible punishing her if it is somehow not her fault.
my mum sugested she may have a chill in her bladder/kidney?

Sorry if I sound like I am attacking you, what you are doing to your dog I find very upsetting, dogs don't understand punishment, that is something us humans do not dogs. Yes dogs can learn by being punished but it is a very hard lesson to teach them. Put yourself in her position and think about how you would feel. Give her a hug, take her to the vet with a sample of her wee and take her back to the beginning and re-train her.

Kev , mIssy may have something wrong with her, but she may also have just slipped. Tommy was very good and then slipped a few times, I have to admit I was frustrated and raised my voice as it's sometimes very hard not to, but what did he do ?? he went into another room and did it again. The only way is to catch her in the act , a firm no and to take her out and then praise her , be tolerant and remove the smells, anything else just teaches her to fear you which is the last thing you want. We have adopted this attitude for slip ups and it works, just count to 10 in your head instead of losing your cool and look for the signs, put Missy outside more regularly even if its overkill and things will start coming well again.

It is better to take the dog out than put them out, if you take them out you can see when they go and praise them, if you put them out you don't know if they have gone or not.

ANattyRat wrote:Exactly what Working Dog said. As I said before, if you say "no," even a couple of seconds after they've finished doing something wrong, it won't help. When Loki would wee in the house, if he'd just finished before I got to him, I wouldn't bother saying anything because it's already too late. Dogs do sense the anger and that is why she looks sad, because she knows you feel angry, but she won't know why. You'll have to stop thinking of her as a person in that respect; she's a dog, and shouting at a dog doesn't help. A simple no will do. Hell, Loki responds better to "ah!" than he does to words. The more words you say, the more useless it becomes, like people who ramble to their dogs about what they're doing is wrong and whatever. They're just meaningless words, dogs rely on tone and body language. Most importantly, they respond to these things with calmness. If you're angry at her, she won't be likely to listen because it's not an emotion dogs feel, it's not one they recognise as anything other than weak behaviour.

If you want her to stop, watch when she acts like she might do it, and tell her, "No," while she actually does it, then get her to go outside. If that doesn't work, definitely try taking her to a vet just in case. But really, above all you will have to work on your mindset towards it, because you think that dogs will respond to the same things people will, but they don't, they're different.

Sorry if any of this sounds harsh or arrogant, I don't mean it to be, just that it's more beneficial for you and your dog if you stop shouting at her or correcting her after she's done something. I used to do the same with my old dog, Zac, when I didn't know any better. I'd point to the couch he'd been on and say, "What's that? Bad," and he'd look guilty. He knew that the state of the couch was bad, but didn't understand that him actually being on it was the problem. The end result was a dog who, for the rest of his life, would lie on the couch when we were out, and get off the couch and look very guilty and sad as soon as we walked in, because he knew we'd tell him off over the couch being as it was, but he couldn't, for the life of him, make the connection that him being on it was the problem.

no doesnt sound harsh or arrogant at all,thanks for the advice:)
i know dogs respond to tone and body language so have been trying to convey my disapointment without geting angry. it hapened again today. i did not catch her in the act so did not tell her off, just took her straight outside. she still knew she was in the wrong and slinked off 2 bed looking all sad and guilty.
am just worried if i dont show her that this is unacceptable by giving her a row she will not know her behaviour is wrong and the problem will continue.

will have to wait till thursday for a trip to the vets unfortunatly. even though i am sure its not a health issue. any advice in the meantime?

Dave wrote:Kev , mIssy may have something wrong with her, but she may also have just slipped. Tommy was very good and then slipped a few times, I have to admit I was frustrated and raised my voice as it's sometimes very hard not to, but what did he do ?? he went into another room and did it again. The only way is to catch her in the act , a firm no and to take her out and then praise her , be tolerant and remove the smells, anything else just teaches her to fear you which is the last thing you want. We have adopted this attitude for slip ups and it works, just count to 10 in your head instead of losing your cool and look for the signs, put Missy outside more regularly even if its overkill and things will start coming well again.

thanks for the reasuring words
is difficult to catch her in the act as she will do it when we are sleeping or go to another room to avoid being caught. hapened again today and i delt with it very calmly,just took her straight out and praised her when she went outside. just woried that if she doesnt get a telling off how is she to know its bad??

going to take her to the vet on thursday if things havent improved.

thanks again

Cyril baby wrote:

Kev13 wrote:Hi everyone.

have had missy for over 4 months now and she has never done this before. she is walked regularly (2 or 3 45min - 1hour walks and a couple of 10-30min walks aswell. she is also let into the shared garden regularly if she needs a pee.)

It is still early days and she is still adapting to her new home, new people and new house rules, I have found it takes about a year for a dog to be completely settled in a new home and happy with the rules. There are dogs that don't take this long but more that give the impression they are fine but are not.

She has done this 5 times in the last week, but also once or twice the week before. is very strange because as i said she is well house trained and is out alot.

she does not seem to be ill and is being her usual playfull, mischevious self.

Personally I would take her to the vets with a sample of her wee just to make sure there isn't anything wrong, we can't see if there is a problem with her waterworks just as people can't see when we have one.

she seems to like the rug in the hall although it is not always where she will go. i have being punishing her by pointing at it and shouting something like "whats this! Bad! bad!".( at which point she will look guilty as sin,put her head down and try to cower away from the area) i have also rubed her nose in it the last couple of times she has done it. she is then put to bed and recieves no attention.

She may have been taught to toilet on pads or paper, this can made dogs toilet on rugs, I have the same problem with Cyril. Dogs that have been trained to toilet on pads or paper have been taught to toilet in the house and it can be very difficult to get them to toilet outside.

How would you feel if someone treated you like that if you had an accident? Even us adults can have accidents if we have something wrong with us. She is a dog not a human, she doesn't understand English only dog, when you treat her in this manner she doesn't know what she has done, she doesn't understand that it is because she toileted in the house, only that the person she thought loved her doesn't.

i would feel terible punishing her if it is somehow not her fault.
my mum sugested she may have a chill in her bladder/kidney?

Sorry if I sound like I am attacking you, what you are doing to your dog I find very upsetting, dogs don't understand punishment, that is something us humans do not dogs. Yes dogs can learn by being punished but it is a very hard lesson to teach them. Put yourself in her position and think about how you would feel. Give her a hug, take her to the vet with a sample of her wee and take her back to the beginning and re-train her.

no dont worry bout it,i understand your concern. i know it is a harsh punishment and i feel terrible(and have not done it since) but it is an important lesson she must learn. she cannot toilet in the house.

she may have been paper/pad trained as a pup but is well aware that she should go in the garden or on walks. is just a very frustrating situation as i said the last thing i want to do is have to punish her:(

i just feel if i dont punish her she will not be aware her behavour is wrong and it will continue. am going to take her to the vets on thursday if the problem persists and just go back to basic toilet training...the joys

thanks for your input

Nah, don't worry, by not shouting at her, you'll be making it easier in the long run. True, as long as you don't catch her in the act, she will continue doing it in the meantime because she doesn't know it's wrong, but that's better than shouting at her and having no good come of it. You're doing the right thing by saying nothing if you catch her too late. Watch when she's about to do it though. Basically try and stalk her for a while lol and pick up on her body language and when she looks like she might do it, take her outside. Or if she starts doing it inside, a firm, "No," and take her outside. Honestly, you don't even need to convey disappointment. Dogs don't feel disappointment really, when a dog tells another dog off, it's generally for breaking the rules, there's no real emotion behind it, so you have to try to imitate that sense of authority without any anger or disappointment. I know that's really hard, but it'll get the best response out of her

Of course, if it's a medical thing, none of this will help, so either way, try not to be frustrated with her in case it isn't her fault. Just have to try to catch her in the act, correct her, and repeat again and again until it works. Good luck!

DO NOT PUNISH HER!

I'm sorry, but she isn't doing it to spite you! If she pees, say nothing, just take her calmly outside and give her a 'trigger' word such ad "toilet" or "pee" etc. As soon as she pees praise her.

Make sure you clean up the accident (because that's what it is) with a solution of biological washing liquid without a fuss.

ANattyRat wrote:Nah, don't worry, by not shouting at her, you'll be making it easier in the long run. True, as long as you don't catch her in the act, she will continue doing it in the meantime because she doesn't know it's wrong, but that's better than shouting at her and having no good come of it. You're doing the right thing by saying nothing if you catch her too late. Watch when she's about to do it though. Basically try and stalk her for a while lol and pick up on her body language and when she looks like she might do it, take her outside. Or if she starts doing it inside, a firm, "No," and take her outside. Honestly, you don't even need to convey disappointment. Dogs don't feel disappointment really, when a dog tells another dog off, it's generally for breaking the rules, there's no real emotion behind it, so you have to try to imitate that sense of authority without any anger or disappointment. I know that's really hard, but it'll get the best response out of her

Of course, if it's a medical thing, none of this will help, so either way, try not to be frustrated with her in case it isn't her fault. Just have to try to catch her in the act, correct her, and repeat again and again until it works. Good luck!

thanks again

ANattyRat wrote:Nah, don't worry, by not shouting at her, you'll be making it easier in the long run. True, as long as you don't catch her in the act, she will continue doing it in the meantime because she doesn't know it's wrong, but that's better than shouting at her and having no good come of it.

She's peeing where she shouldn't for one of three reasons...
1. She's had a little relapse - back to basics without shouting/telling off etc
2. She doesn't understand that it's wrong - back to basics without shouting/telling off etc
3. She has a low grade UTI - trip to the vets.

In non of the above cases should she be told off/shouted at/have her nose rubbed in it etc.

I repeat, SHE IS NOT DOING IT TO SPITE YOU. There's a problem & you need to work out which of the above it is.

Kev13 wrote:
no dont worry bout it,i understand your concern. i know it is a harsh punishment and i feel terrible(and have not done it since) but it is an important lesson she must learn. she cannot toilet in the house.

she may have been paper/pad trained as a pup but is well aware that she should go in the garden or on walks. is just a very frustrating situation as i said the last thing i want to do is have to punish her:(

No it is important that you teach her what you want her to do. She is a dog, she speaks dog and behaves like a dog, she doesn't know it is wrong, there may be a good reason for this. By saying it is an important lesson for her to learn means you are thinking human and not dog. It took me a long time to realise that dogs think different to us. We have to teach our babies how to speak Engish and what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't, for a dog it is a lot harder.

Of course it is frustrating to us, because we are frustrated it changes our body language, all your dog can see is mum is annoyed about something, she doesn't know what. Unless you catch her doing this she won't remember it is her that has done it so punishing her more than 30 seconds after it has been done is useless.

i just feel if i dont punish her she will not be aware her behavour is wrong and it will continue. am going to take her to the vets on thursday if the problem persists and just go back to basic toilet training...the joys

thanks for your input

Dogs don't understand "Wrong", that is us humans, they are basically clean animals and rarely toilet were they sleep or eat. No matter what you do you will never teach her "It is wrong", you can teach her that you want her to toilet outside.

I would start now and not wait until after seeing the vet, take her out and lots of praise when she goes, the earlier you start this the quicker she will stop doing it in the house. When she does go inside, put her outside before cleaning uo, don't say anything and smile even though you want to stangle her Smiling will keep your body language soft so she doesn't pick up just how annoyed or frustrated you are. Clean up with white vinegar or biological washing liquid or get something from the pet shop, normal household cleaners takes the smell away for us but not our dogs, if she can smell wee she will continue to wee there. I am waiting until the weather turns colder so I can keep the doors shut before teaching Cyril not to toilet inside. By being vigulant I an avoid 99% of it. I know that feeling of wanting to wring their necks far too well.

Cyril baby wrote:

Kev13 wrote:
no dont worry bout it,i understand your concern. i know it is a harsh punishment and i feel terrible(and have not done it since) but it is an important lesson she must learn. she cannot toilet in the house.

she may have been paper/pad trained as a pup but is well aware that she should go in the garden or on walks. is just a very frustrating situation as i said the last thing i want to do is have to punish her:(

No it is important that you teach her what you want her to do. She is a dog, she speaks dog and behaves like a dog, she doesn't know it is wrong, there may be a good reason for this. By saying it is an important lesson for her to learn means you are thinking human and not dog. It took me a long time to realise that dogs think different to us. We have to teach our babies how to speak Engish and what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't, for a dog it is a lot harder.

Of course it is frustrating to us, because we are frustrated it changes our body language, all your dog can see is mum is annoyed about something, she doesn't know what. Unless you catch her doing this she won't remember it is her that has done it so punishing her more than 30 seconds after it has been done is useless.

i just feel if i dont punish her she will not be aware her behavour is wrong and it will continue. am going to take her to the vets on thursday if the problem persists and just go back to basic toilet training...the joys

thanks for your input

Dogs don't understand "Wrong", that is us humans, they are basically clean animals and rarely toilet were they sleep or eat. No matter what you do you will never teach her "It is wrong", you can teach her that you want her to toilet outside.

I would start now and not wait until after seeing the vet, take her out and lots of praise when she goes, the earlier you start this the quicker she will stop doing it in the house. When she does go inside, put her outside before cleaning uo, don't say anything and smile even though you want to stangle her Smiling will keep your body language soft so she doesn't pick up just how annoyed or frustrated you are. Clean up with white vinegar or biological washing liquid or get something from the pet shop, normal household cleaners takes the smell away for us but not our dogs, if she can smell wee she will continue to wee there. I am waiting until the weather turns colder so I can keep the doors shut before teaching Cyril not to toilet inside. By being vigulant I an avoid 99% of it. I know that feeling of wanting to wring their necks far too well.

Thanks again for all your help
has been 2 days pee free so fingers crost

cheers:)

Glad to hear she is improving

my dog has just taken to peeing on the sofa and my bed. Not happy. she rarely has accidents

jstaff wrote:Glad to hear she is improving

cheers:)