taking a Staffy cross abroad

by janesmart16 Sat Jul 28 2012, 11:26

Has anyone recently taken a staffy cross to france or Germany?Was there any problems.We are going to France through to Germany in Sept.and don't know hat to do because we have a Lab x staffy which we understand may be banned there.Her passport says Lab cross her mother was a labrador and the dad was a staffy she has some staffy features the earsbut i think she only look staffy if you look at her properly.Dont want to put her into kennels as its 3 weeks and cant cancel holiday as we're going with friends and don't want to let themdown.Please can someone help on this subject as dont know who to contact have contacted the port they dont know anything and the same with defra they were pretty usless and told me to contact French/German embassys that nto easy either cant find a e mail address and when i phoned didn't get anywhere either.I'm now at the end of my tether withthis its going ro ruin my holiday one way or the other if i dont take her i will worry about her in kennels.someone please give me some good news. Sad

by Guest Sat Jul 28 2012, 11:43

Well, good news & bad news!

The good news is that the French & German authorities rarely inspect the dog & some don't even look at the pet passport!

The bad new is that if they do inspect her and they don't accept that she's a Labrador cross (rather than a Staffy cross) then you could be turned back.

There's another member here who is doing a similar thing, and they've had no real joy with the Embassies or DEFRA. It seems to be a bit hit & miss.

by Guest Sat Jul 28 2012, 11:49

This is a copy of a letter lifted from another site, which helps to explain the French laws...

For any other Staffie or Staffie Cross owners considering venturing across the Channel, I shall copy the Email letter which I received today from the French Consulate in London:

“Dear Mrs Gowen,

I am afraid the legislation in France does not allow entry on french
territory to dogs of the 1st category (so-called “attack dogs” -
staffordshire bull terriers, american staffordshire, bull mastiff and
Japanese tosas) without a pedigree certificate from a national registrar such as the Kennel Club.

This legislation was enacted to curb the import of pit bulls, cross
breeds of molossoids frequently trained as fighting dogs. Personally, I
consider this is obviously unfair to staffies, usually friendly and “big
softies”, and to the people who own them, and frequently have them
rescued from the RSPCA refuges. The law, however, is very strictly
enforced due to a series of unfortunate accidents in the recent past.

The question, if you want to bring your staffie with you, is that of
identification. What is the breed mentioned in the Europeaan Pet
Passport ? If it is Staffie cross, this will obviously not be accepted.
Another formulation could possibly be acceptable (does your dog look
like a boxer or bull-dog cross ? those are not 1st category).

It is also a question of morphology. Does your dog have the typical look
of the staffie cross (typical “stop” between the muzzle nose and eyes,
proeminent jaw on the sides, thin whip-like tail ? If she does not look
like that, the dog could also be acceptable.

Finally, your dog will in no circumstance be put down just because it’s
a staffie cross – French people are animal lovers too, even if staffies
are not as frequent – and popular – there as in the UK. The only risk is
that you might have to curtail your holidays and bring the dog back to
the UK.

I am really sorry for the bad news, but I would like you to have an
exact view of the situation. Should you wish your companion to be with
you during the holidays, remember that 1st category dogs are usually
kept on a lead and muzzled in public places, and on public transport.

Yours very sincerely,

Jean-Pascal CODINE
Customs Counsellor
French Embassy, London”

by **Kathy** Sat Jul 28 2012, 11:51

Sorry but I have no experience of taking a dog abroad or to the continent, however I did just find this online which might be worth reading before you decide what to do. Is there a family member of good friend who could look after your dog for you while you are away ?

http://gowen.org/staffie-to-france-non/

by Guest Sat Jul 28 2012, 11:56

kathytake2 wrote:Sorry but I have no experience of taking a dog abroad or to the continent, however I did just find this online which might be worth reading before you decide what to do. Is there a family member of good friend who could look after your dog for you while you are away ?

http://gowen.org/staffie-to-france-non/

That includes the letter I copied out!

by **Kathy** Sat Jul 28 2012, 12:01

Caryll wrote:
kathytake2 wrote:Sorry but I have no experience of taking a dog abroad or to the continent, however I did just find this online which might be worth reading before you decide what to do. Is there a family member of good friend who could look after your dog for you while you are away ?

http://gowen.org/staffie-to-france-non/

That includes the letter I copied out!

Great minds think alike Big Grin

by janesmart16 Sat Jul 28 2012, 13:02

no family members both my kids are grown up and have full time jobs hence she would be left all day on her own.I just really want to know if any one has experienced being turned away withe a staffy cross or if the athorities canor have done anything worse

by janesmart16 Sat Jul 28 2012, 13:33

Caryll wrote:Well, good news & bad news!

The good news is that the French & German authorities rarely inspect the dog & some don't even look at the pet passport!

The bad new is that if they do inspect her and they don't accept that she's a Labrador cross (rather than a Staffy cross) then you could be turned back.

There's another member here who is doing a similar thing, and they've had no real joy with the Embassies or DEFRA. It seems to be a bit hit & miss.

by janesmart16 Sat Jul 28 2012, 13:41

Pleas could you let me know if the other person has any success,and manages to successfully take there dog over or receives a reply from the Embassies.I'm not going to give up that easily i have written a letter to both Embassies so i will put any information i receive on here.I was told though that DEFRA should be able to advise.I have sent them e mails and rang them and both times they said you have to go to the consulate or Embassy.

by Guest Sat Jul 28 2012, 14:19

I've looked into this for a long time as I wanted to take our oldest to France but was concerned as you are . Tilly is a Staffy , not a cross but we have no papers to prove this only the word of the Vet and her looks. This , in the eyes of the French is not good enough.
It is a very unclear situation I'm afraid with lots of doubt.
Ultimately as the law goes if there is some staffy in your dog (as a cross) then they are not allowed as the thought goes that the cross may be with Pitbull etc which is banned in France. You are only allowed to bring a purebred Staffy into France and must have the papers to back it up.
The authorities MAY check you at the port on entry, you MAY be checked on your holiday and if someone decides that there is Staffy in your dog then they MAY turn you around and send you home. If you say your dog is Lab X you MAY be ok but ultimately its your risk and you have to decide what you are prepared to suffer.
It is clear that your dog will not be taken away and worst case is that you will be turned around but that has to be your decision to make. If you decide to go with the risk then just make sure your Defra Vet states Lab X on the pet passport.

We have a member on here thast tells us he has been taking his 2 staffie X into france for the last few years without trouble but it has to be clear that this is a personal experience and not something that gives the all clear.

For Germany the only thing I know is that it is forbidden to stay in Germany with a Staffy (purebred, can't say for a x) but travel through Germany is ok as long as paperwork is in order. There are Staffys in Germany but as far as I am aware then they have to be bred within the country.

In summary if you go by law then NO go for kennels instead but if you want to take the risk then that has to be your choice

by janesmart16 Sat Jul 28 2012, 14:50

Thank you for that its a very hard decision to make.My husband is of the opinion that i should just ignore everything i read on the web and just take her cus he says the passport is a legal doc so the word of if should be final.But i'm a worrier and am more cautious stiil trying to decide.Don't know what to do.My brother got a vicious looking type of dog that he takse into France all the time and never has problems but i suspose its not the banned breed.

by janesmart16 Sat Jul 28 2012, 15:00

Caryll wrote:This is a copy of a letter lifted from another site, which helps to explain the French laws...

For any other Staffie or Staffie Cross owners considering venturing across the Channel, I shall copy the Email letter which I received today from the French Consulate in London:

“Dear Mrs Gowen,

I am afraid the legislation in France does not allow entry on french
territory to dogs of the 1st category (so-called “attack dogs” -
staffordshire bull terriers, american staffordshire, bull mastiff and
Japanese tosas) without a pedigree certificate from a national registrar such as the Kennel Club.

This legislation was enacted to curb the import of pit bulls, cross
breeds of molossoids frequently trained as fighting dogs. Personally, I
consider this is obviously unfair to staffies, usually friendly and “big
softies”, and to the people who own them, and frequently have them
rescued from the RSPCA refuges. The law, however, is very strictly
enforced due to a series of unfortunate accidents in the recent past.

The question, if you want to bring your staffie with you, is that of
identification. What is the breed mentioned in the Europeaan Pet
Passport ? If it is Staffie cross, this will obviously not be accepted.
Another formulation could possibly be acceptable (does your dog look
like a boxer or bull-dog cross ? those are not 1st category).

It is also a question of morphology. Does your dog have the typical look
of the staffie cross (typical “stop” between the muzzle nose and eyes,
proeminent jaw on the sides, thin whip-like tail ? If she does not look
like that, the dog could also be acceptable.

Finally, your dog will in no circumstance be put down just because it’s
a staffie cross – French people are animal lovers too, even if staffies
are not as frequent – and popular – there as in the UK. The only risk is
that you might have to curtail your holidays and bring the dog back to
the UK.

I am really sorry for the bad news, but I would like you to have an
exact view of the situation. Should you wish your companion to be with
you during the holidays, remember that 1st category dogs are usually
kept on a lead and muzzled in public places, and on public transport.

Yours very sincerely,

Jean-Pascal CODINE
Customs Counsellor
French Embassy, London”

by Guest Sat Jul 28 2012, 15:02

it really is all about gambles, the one thing that is clear from my research is that as far as breed identification is concerned then the passport is not a legal doc for identification it is merely a piece of paper to say that all the boxes have been ticked for travel to the country. If I could give you more positive news (or if someone could give it to me) that would be fantastic as I would love to take both our 2 france on their hols but I just dont want to risk the hassle so unless the law changes or we find a way around it then it's just not happening for me

by Guest Sat Jul 28 2012, 15:04

janesmart16 wrote:Thank you for that its a very hard decision to make.My husband is of the opinion that i should just ignore everything i read on the web and just take her cus he says the passport is a legal doc so the word of if should be final.But i'm a worrier and am more cautious stiil trying to decide.Don't know what to do.My brother got a vicious looking type of dog that he takse into France all the time and never has problems but i suspose its not the banned breed.

Do you have a pic of her , maybe a few opinions on the looks might help things as you sound like its a do I or don't I situation ??? Personally if the staffy looks are only very slight then you will probably be fine but you have to be aware of the facts

by janesmart16 Sat Jul 28 2012, 15:59

I will see if i can get a pic might take a bit of time though,then how do i put it on here?

by **janey** Sat Jul 28 2012, 16:38

janesmart16 wrote:I will see if i can get a pic might take a bit of time though,then how do i put it on here?

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t12018-how-to-post-a-photos-onto-the-forum

by janesmart16 Sat Jul 28 2012, 23:03

Thanks everyone for your input on this but have decided to put Rosie in kennels.Just not brave enough to risk it.Who knows maybe one day we will be able to take our lovely staffies and staffies crosses into these countries.When these countries wake up and realise that not to tar all these dogs with the same brush.Never thought when we bought a cross and started to plan our travels that it would be so much of a problem.Will go this year but won't be travelling to those countries again unless the lift the restrictions.

by Guest Sun Jul 29 2012, 00:50

janesmart16 wrote:Thank you for that its a very hard decision to make.My husband is of the opinion that i should just ignore everything i read on the web and just take her cus he says the passport is a legal doc so the word of if should be final.But i'm a worrier and am more cautious stiil trying to decide.Don't know what to do.My brother got a vicious looking type of dog that he takse into France all the time and never has problems but i suspose its not the banned breed.

The Pet Passport is NOT a legal document - only a guarantee of certain health precautions, mainly rabies & certain parasites.

janesmart16 wrote:Thanks everyone for your input on this but have decided to put Rosie in kennels.Just not brave enough to risk it.Who knows maybe one day we will be able to take our lovely staffies and staffies crosses into these countries.When these countries wake up and realise that not to tar all these dogs with the same brush.Never thought when we bought a cross and started to plan our travels that it would be so much of a problem.Will go this year but won't be travelling to those countries again unless the lift the restrictions.

You've made the decision that I probably would have made. I'm a worrier - I would always be looking over my shoulder. It's an awful decision to make, one that we made when Dempsey was only 4 months old. Our holiday had already been booked & paid for when we we had the chance of getting Dempsey. We put him in a specialist Bull Terrier boarding kennel in Essex, and although it was a fair way from us we didn't regret it.

Every holiday we've had since then has included Dempsey!

by Guest Sun Jul 29 2012, 09:27

Think you are making a wise choice too, it really is a shame that these countries have such stupid regulations and are so ignorant of the breed in general. We have just returned from a weeks holiday in Cornwall, which we had in place of 2 weeks in the sun just so we could take the dogs with us Smile

by janesmart16 Sun Jul 29 2012, 09:46

Thought i would just point out that its looks as though these breeds are not banned in Holland,if you can get through France and Germany first.Apparently they did have a ban but found it did not decease the number of attacks.Well done Holland .There trying to get the other countries to see this also lets hope they succseed soon.As far as i can see Belgium also has no ban.

by **Kathy** Sun Jul 29 2012, 11:06

It's just a shame the tunnel goes to France really, should have gone to Belgium instead Big Grin

I think you have done the right thing, even if it doesn't feel like it right now.

by Guest Sun Jul 29 2012, 11:51

kathytake2 wrote:It's just a shame the tunnel goes to France really, should have gone to Belgium instead

I think you have done the right thing, even if it doesn't feel like it right now.

Couldn't agree more applause

by Guest Sun Jul 29 2012, 12:09

janesmart16 wrote:Thought i would just point out that its looks as though these breeds are not banned in Holland,if you can get through France and Germany first.Apparently they did have a ban but found it did not decease the number of attacks.Well done Holland .There trying to get the other countries to see this also lets hope they succseed soon.As far as i can see Belgium also has no ban.

I did look at the German situation a bit and it revolved around some attack , I think in Hamburg. As a consequence then some counties , states , provinces whatever they call them have banned them total but they put an import restriction in place anyway.

This was another post around the same topic and you can see it just all goes round in circles with no definite answers but plenty of doubts Sad

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t19213p50-driving-to-poland-with-staffy?highlight=poland

by janesmart16 Sun Jul 29 2012, 13:30

I can see to some extent their point of view but instead of banning some of the breeds like staffies why do't they just put stricter restrictions on them like they have to be muzzled in public places.And to put an ban on the cross breeds especially if cross with one of the most docile breeds like labradors is just daft.Oh well there missing out.Lets hope they review this problem soon and this sort of thing dosn't come to our country.

by Rachb26 Sun Jul 29 2012, 13:50

Hi Dave, I think I've read before that you're thinking about flying the dogs out via plane.

What airline would you be thinking of flying with?

I was thinking about taking the kids and dog abroad next Easter..

Thanks

by Guest Sun Jul 29 2012, 16:24

Rachb26 wrote:Hi Dave, I think I've read before that you're thinking about flying the dogs out via plane.

What airline would you be thinking of flying with?

I was thinking about taking the kids and dog abroad next Easter..

Thanks

I remember asking a question generally before but never really got any decent answers, there are a few airlines that do internal flights within their own countries (Lufthansa in Germany for example) but have not found anyhting for international flights so I gave up looking

by Rachb26 Sun Jul 29 2012, 20:53

I found one site that said Thomsons and Monarch do but only as cargo. If I find out for definite I'll post up.

by Guest Sun Jul 29 2012, 20:58

I did see stuff about flying cargo but I wouldnt want to do it , it would be as cabin luggage or nothing for me . Think the other is only an option if you were emeigrating or something , I would imagine it could be really distressing for the dog and a Staff is way too big to be comfortabler in a cabin sized carrier anyway, think this is for little handbag dogs

by Lynn Steve & Riley Mon Aug 06 2012, 16:54

We are due to go over to France / Spain in 2 weeks , I have a staffie with no papers just his passport which states Staffordshire bull terrier , I'm really confused now and don't know what to do Sad

by TS06 Thu Jan 17 2013, 01:48

Lynn Steve & Riley wrote:We are due to go over to France / Spain in 2 weeks , I have a staffie with no papers just his passport which states Staffordshire bull terrier , I'm really confused now and don't know what to do

Hello, I realise that a few months have passed, but I'm curious to know ... how did you get on?

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Will we just be turned back though i could cope with that if it was just the threat of that.But i read somewhere they eill take the dog off you and maybe destroy it

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Thanks but i have read this letter before and its not very clear on one hand hes saying you cant take them in and thenat the end he says if you do they have to be muzzled and kept on a lead bit confusing

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