My STB tried to kill another dog...

This is going to be a long story. My heart is breaking.

December 2010 I had a miscarriage, I adopted my puppy January 2011

I own a 20 month old male Staffie named Meiko, I got him at 11 weeks as his first owner was allergic to him. I tried my best to train him properly, he slept in his cage without a peep, responded well to his new name and I set up a puppy training schedule detailing what times he should be in his cage, time to eat, time to play, obedience training, toilet training and who had what responsibility when. The rules included a huge list of "do nots" such as puppy on the furniture, tug games, rough play, greeting the puppy excitedly at the door, encouraging mouthing or any other undesirable behaviour. I ensured I always walked through a door first and other things to show him the pack hierarchy. I worked with him for periods every day increasing in duration as he got older. He was great at learning and I soon discovered food and treats were his favorite reward.

When I adopted him he hadn't had any jags yet so I organised both jabs, got him microchiped, wormed and even something that goes up his nose, something to do with kennel cough I think. When he was old enough I got him neutered too.

The only real problem we had with him was he was quite nervous, one of my friends were visiting and was a bit too loud, Meiko was shivering and let go of his bladder. I worked with him around people, other dogs and overcome his fear of passing lorries. I am very keen on motor sport and attend the racing every Saturday night and I'd take Meiko with me, he grew up around still saws, cars crashing, hundreds of people around him and other dogs
Meiko grew up with my partners mums German shepherd and they were best friends, they went to the same dog classes together and we're inseparable. Unfortunately Bear was 2 years old when he had an aneurysm in his spine and had to be put to sleep. Meiko was 10 months when this happened. Film's other friend is a female German shepherd Keira who he still sees regularly.

Meiko has no food or toy aggression, humans, Bear or Keira could share toys and treats with not even a blink.

About 4 months ago my partners mum adopted an 18 month old German shepherd named Max who has been abused beaten and neglected. Unfortunately I wasn't there when they were introduced but I was assured it was no problem. The next time I visited with Meiko, Max attacked him out of the blue and max has since bitten me 3 times. Meiko is terrified of max but I had been working with the two dogs (outside and muzzled) and I managed to keep at it until they could tolerate each other, they also attended the same dog classes. Unfortunately the training had to stop between the two dogs as my relationship with my partner ended.

After the attack I couldn't walk Meiko without him pulling like crazy at other dogs. No matter how much a worked with him, he'd pull and if it was a small dog and it yapped, he'd growl aggressively at it. He is still no problem with big dogs and plays fine but I little dog can't get near him. I am usually really careful to the point of my friends thinking I'm manic when I walk Meiko. I don't let him off the lead if there is another dog within half a mile of him. He has excellent recall and will return on one whistle to get his lead put back on.

Yesterday Meiko was off the lead and a bit in front of me when he saw a little fluffy dog and I couldn't get him back in time. He ran toward the other dog and started jumping up then the thing yapped and Meiko attacked it. The owner of the other dog kicked Meiko in the ribs half a dozen times and the male friend I was walking with kicked him too but Meiko wouldn't let go. These was blood everywhere. We eventually got them separated and we both left. I haven't been able to look at Meiko since, he's been feed, exercised and put in his cage because I don't know what to do.

If he turned as easy as that should I put him to sleep? I've failed him

Firstly no you don't need to put him to sleep, just because he attacked a dog doesn't mean he'll do it to a person, and this is from me who DOES have a people aggressive dog

Also forget all that dominance theory crap it really won't help with your training.

I'd go back to basics with him, not letting him off lead, up the socialising massively, maybe use a muzzle if it will put your mind at ease.

Alot of staffys are or become dog aggressive it is unfortunately a breed trait that alot have.

You haven't failed him.

Very sad to say hello when you sound so low.

No you haven't failed him, from your story he appears to have become DA after he was bitten.

You can still work with him, these things do happen. For now and I would keep him onlead always, and build up your confidence again as the handler.

Hiya and welcome from us.

no you certainly shouldn't be putting him to sleep you should be researching into controlling Dog aggression. Have you any other experiences to make you doubtful about him in general, kids , adults etc. It sounds pretty straightforward to me how he has been attacked by another dog and this has raised his fear, which comes out in aggression

So sorry to read your story - I don't think that I am as an experienced owner as some on this site who will probably give you good advice. Another dog bit my rescue dog a couple of months ago and she changed in her behaviour towards other dogs but I am working on it and it is improving. Good luck and lots of hugs

ella wrote:Firstly no you don't need to put him to sleep, just because he attacked a dog doesn't mean he'll do it to a person, and this is from me who DOES have a people aggressive dog

Also forget all that dominance theory crap it really won't help with your training.

I'd go back to basics with him, not letting him off lead, up the socialising massively, maybe use a muzzle if it will put your mind at ease.

Alot of staffys are or become dog aggressive it is unfortunately a breed trait that alot have.

You haven't failed him.

Definitely. Staffords can become dog aggressive when they reach maturity. But I would say that a lot of your boy's aggression is probably fear based. You say he was nervous before? At what age was he neutered? Early neutering can bring on fear aggression.

Go right back to basics & try to socialise him as much as possible (with a muzzle to start with if that makes you more confident - he'll pick up on your anxiety).

He really hasn't done too much wrong (I wouldn't say that to the owners of the other dog ), but right now won't remember what you're unhappy with him about & he'll be pretty miserable.

If he is dog aggressive, it isn't the end of the world - you can learn to live with it - I did with my last boy!

I love my dog so much, after the split from my partner, Meiko is the only thing that kept me walking this earth. I would do anything to protect him but he terrified me reacting like that.

Does anyone have advice on what I can do to socialise him?

He has never given me any cause for concern amongst people or kids, never any food aggression. When you put his food down he won't even touch it until you say so.

I tried so Dam hard to get things right.

I'd personally walk around some where you no there are going to be dogs BUT keep your distance and reward any positive or good behaviour. If he starts pulling/barking whatever walk away from the scene and bring back once calm.

I'd do that before trying to let him meet other dogs at the moment

ella wrote:I'd personally walk around some where you no there are going to be dogs BUT keep your distance and reward any positive or good behaviour. If he starts pulling/barking whatever walk away from the scene and bring back once calm.

I'd do that before trying to let him meet other dogs at the moment

Thanks, I currently like about 100 meters from the beach and his last walk is at midnight on the beach as on one else is there and I let him off the lead. I understand what you say about keeping distance but there is no reaction from him at 10ft from another dog. The biggest problem is trying to pass other dogs on the same foot path

Meiko wrote: He has never given me any cause for concern amongst people or kids, never any food aggression. When you put his food down he won't even touch it until you say so.

What you have just said means that you have got things right! The most important thing for any dog is good temperament towards humans! Some staffords don't like other dogs, it's in their nature. That doesn't mean that yours is like that, just warning you that it happens.

As Ella says you need to build things up gradually, and keep as calm as you can yourself! Try teaching him the 'watch' command. Hold a treat in front of your face & the instant he looks at it say "watch" and give him the treat - you have to be quick, though! Soon, he'll be looking at you when you say the word, because he'll expect a treat. Once you've got that right at home, try using it outside, away from distractions. Then when he's got that, use it as soon as he sees another dog & gradually reduce the distance.

But please remember, a dog that doesn't like other dogs is not a danger to you or other humans!

I can understand your anxiety but he needs you now. There is a DA staffy who is walked in the park (or so her owners say) she trots along to heel and does not require a muzzle but her owners call over and just warn other owners not to let their dogs approach.

Meiko may be more relaxed again in a couple of days/weeks, one chap I was talking to in the park has the most docile collie who was attacked a few weeks ago and over the next couple of days he snapped at almost every dog that came near but Ledger approached with no problems and as the days went on the owner controlled more socialising with the regulars and he is ok again now

Please don't think that your dog has suddenly turned into a monster - he hasn't! I'm sure he loves you just as much as he always has done - and I'm also sure that you love him just as much!

how many time do you walk him how long for?

Thank you so much for your advice and support. I have never heard of the watch command but that is excellent and will start that right after my dinner (I haven't eaten since yesterday afternoon coz of stress and now I'm starving)

Here is a pix of my wee boy

http://db.tt/eS3faMCT

He's a staffy they can be dog aggressive. Mine is - I just keep her on a lead. There is nothing wrong keeping a dog on a lead. I wouldn't punish your dog by putting it in his cage and sulking with him, he's a dog, he doesn't know any better.

Staffies were used for ratting a lot in the past so many still have a small animal prey drive, that's a terrier trait. Just carry on as normal but don't let off lead.

Meiko wrote:Thank you so much for your advice and support. I have never heard of the watch command but that is excellent and will start that right after my dinner (I haven't eaten since yesterday afternoon coz of stress and now I'm starving)

Here is a pix of my wee boy

http://db.tt/eS3faMCT

Very handsome!!!

Awwww! He's gorgeous!

Just keep him well exercised & gradually introduce the things that have been sugested........he'll be fine!

Hi and welcome to the forum from Rocky and me.

Please do not give up on this dog. Read through all the replies above, there are loads of very good suggestions there for you. Many of us have been through a very similar situation to what you witnessed with your dog and it can be worked through.

Keep him on a lead when out on walks and maybe think about a muzzle for him.
Try to remain calm when out with him as he will pick up on your nervousness.
Keep your voice calm and in control for reason above.
Try some training at home if possible using the WATCH command and reward when acheived.
Go to the park when it is more quiet and using a long training lead try some basic lessons with him again. Sit, stay etc. reward him when he gets anything correct.

Did you offer to pay anything towards the vet bill ?
Just out of curiousity what do you feed him ?

PS he is a beautiful lad.

Ok answers to all the questions...

He was neutered at 15 months
He is fed Iams dry for small to medium or Weinman's wet food
He is walked about 4 times a day at least a mile n half.
I had already covered 7 miles when the incident happened
(I am a model, Meiko goes EVERYWHERE with me and when I go out for his walks I hook up my cardio trainer)
Oh and as for the rat thing... He caught and killed a mouse in my flat last month

Thank you all x x

Meiko wrote:Ok answers to all the questions...

He was neutered at 15 months
He is fed Iams dry for small to medium or Weinman's wet food
He is walked about 4 times a day at least a mile n half.
I had already covered 7 miles when the incident happened
(I am a model, Meiko goes EVERYWHERE with me and when I go out for his walks I hook up my cardio trainer)
Oh and as for the rat thing... He caught and killed a mouse in my flat last month

Thank you all x x

OK. He was probably neutered a little too early for a dog with a nervous disposition, but that can be worked around. I'm not keen, personally on Iams - too many fillers (and they test on animals). You could try a hypoallergenic food if your budget will run to it - James Wellbeloned or Fish4dogs are good ones.

Yes, the rats/mice don't stand much of a chance, do they?

dopg need to have 45mins plus walks

Steve wrote:dopg need to have 45mins plus walks

Sounds like he's probably getting that already.

Caryll wrote:

Meiko wrote:Ok answers to all the questions...

He was neutered at 15 months
He is fed Iams dry for small to medium or Weinman's wet food
He is walked about 4 times a day at least a mile n half.
I had already covered 7 miles when the incident happened
(I am a model, Meiko goes EVERYWHERE with me and when I go out for his walks I hook up my cardio trainer)
Oh and as for the rat thing... He caught and killed a mouse in my flat last month

Thank you all x x

OK. He was probably neutered a little too early for a dog with a nervous disposition, but that can be worked around. I'm not keen, personally on Iams - too many fillers (and they test on animals). You could try a hypoallergenic food if your budget will run to it - James Wellbeloned or Fish4dogs are good ones.

Yes, the rats/mice don't stand much of a chance, do they?

Jeeso ok, I put him on Iams coz it didn't have any meat derivatives, I'll look up the suggestions. He wasn't nervous when we got him done, he was really confident and social by that point

Caryll wrote:

Steve wrote:dopg need to have 45mins plus walks

Sounds like he's probably getting that already.

i could do a mile half in 30mins

Steve wrote:

Caryll wrote:

Steve wrote:dopg need to have 45mins plus walks

Sounds like he's probably getting that already.

i could do a mile half in 30mins

It takes me at least an hour. Im not joking, i'm a really slow walker lol

Steve wrote:i could do a mile half in 30mins

I couldn't!

i do 7miles plus in the morning in around 2hour/ hour 45mins

Steve wrote:i do 7miles plus in the morning in around 2hour/ hour 45mins

Wow! Good going, no wonder the blisters

i got my sister out with me this morning

We do 2 miles in 20 minutes

A lot of attacks make staffs that werent dog aggressive, aggressive from my experience.I know a lot won't agree and I don't muzzle mine who is starting to show aggression to other dogs but if your that insecure with him at the minute why not muzzle him for your own peace of mind while you get to grips with him?but please don't just take him out then lock him in his cage as he won't know what he has done wrong.I know your feelings but it's just dog behaviour at the end of the day,you've not failed him and you'll over come this,good luck

Apologise to the guys that have commented here, after the first few posts I took Meiko back out of his cage and cuddled him like I'd never let go. He is still my wee boy and you're right, he needs me more than ever x x

Meiko wrote:Apologise to the guys that have commented here, after the first few posts I took Meiko back out of his cage and cuddled him like I'd never let go. He is still my wee boy and you're right, he needs me more than ever x x

Lokk at that face ><

Awwww, that avatar pic would melt the hardest hearts!

Caryll wrote:Awwww, that avatar pic would melt the hardest hearts!

yip!!

I can feel your pain when i read this and i feel so sorry for you and the dog.

I would though suggest rather than listening to the advice, which is good, then trying to resolve this on your own you should seek help from a local trainer or behaviourist. This is no easy task that will be sorted in a couple of days and you need support of someone who know how to deal with this.

Hi, my dog was attacked by 2 others and after that he hated every other dog. I went back to basics and found getting him to keep his attention on me really helped! Took a while but we could walk past other dogs on lead and he didnt really pull towards them. Today was a very big day as we met a friend of ours with his dog. Both males and they walked around the woods for hours together...actually just sinking in.

I know its fustrating but stick with it. I never thought my boy could go walkies with another dog let alone male

An update from yesterday...

Police where here today because the guy asked them to check Meiko out. Turns out after I left he went to get a tire iron to kill me and Meiko but Scott got him first.

Meiko was here when the policeman arrived, his words were "the owner isn't doing anything about it and from what I've seen he's excitable but not dangerous"

Jeeso

Not to be funny but i wouldnt worry to much if this is the first time this has happened. Our last dog NOT SBT hated people and dogs. But was ok with people away from our house. Anyway walking down street one day a dog stuck its head through the fence and mine got hold of its head. It had a few little holes in its kneck. We offered to take it to and pay for vets but these thugs followed us home. Threatening us and as our dog wanted to bite them. They phoned the police on us. The police came fussed the dog and just asked us to try keep our dog away from them.

All dogs should be kept on a lead when outdoors unless you are sure their is no other dogs/animals or people about

brian smith wrote:All dogs should be kept on a lead when outdoors unless you are sure their is no other dogs/animals or people about

Hiya, would you like to introduce yourself here

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/f7-new-member-introductions

Thats a very sweeping comment, Moo is never onlead unless near a road, she has perfect recall and I trust her complicitally around dogs.

brian smith wrote:All dogs should be kept on a lead when outdoors unless you are sure their is no other dogs/animals or people about

Erm no they shouldn't, only if you have no recall or have a DA dog. My harv is always off lead around other dogs and people

brian smith wrote:All dogs should be kept on a lead when outdoors unless you are sure their is no other dogs/animals or people about

I dont agree with this either. Buster is kept on a long line around other dogs, but only because his recall with dogs is not very good. As soon as his recall is 100% he will be let off. LuLu is offlead while on fields and things. I will put het back onlead if another onlead dog comes on, just incase the other dog is DA. They are not aggressive, why shouldn't I let them socialise?

brian smith wrote:All dogs should be kept on a lead when outdoors unless you are sure their is no other dogs/animals or people about

Meiko is only off the lead if there are no other dogs around because he has 100% recall... Until he see's another dog.

I was walking him home back along a forest trail, when I walked the trail the first time that day I never saw another person. This was a complete accident

I have a very nervous aggressive little boy and I understand where you are coming from my boy was a rescue and had never been on a walk so when a very excited young lab pounced on him ( and a few others)it made him very defensive a few months on and if dogs are on lead my boy will be ok as long as they stay a little distance away if there are dogs off lead I ask for them to be kept away or put on lead if they don't I then muzzle my boy not for them but I don't need him biting again
It will take time my gsd took 5 years but he was an extreme case
If you have dogs you can walk with whilst all on leads it will help

brian smith wrote:All dogs should be kept on a lead when outdoors unless you are sure their is no other dogs/animals or people about

As others said I also dont agree, untill Mazda went deaf she was ALWAYS offlead unless near road, She's never liked any small/terrier type dog but her recall/training was so perfect that if she was offlead and one came to her face and I told her "down" & "ignore" she would do so.


Meiko's mum - Mazda was attacked by a jack russell as a puppy very bad causing me a £600 vet bill and for about 18mths she litrally wanted to kill them if they even looked at her but we went back to basics keeping away from all dogs at first then after time started to socialise with them muzzled, with time, understanding and patience she ended up a different dog and now is great with ANY dog ANY size........

Here's proof of what can be acheved if you are willing to work with ur boy, like u Mazda was left with me after a split up so I was more determing to help her thru it.




and the tinyist dog ever a teacup chihuahua that weighed 125grams (unfortunitly did die this morning)

Staffiexxx wrote:and the tinyist dog ever a teacup chihuahua that weighed 125grams (unfortunitly did die this morning)

Awww, that's so sad. RIP little puppy.

Ahhh Nikki so sorry to read this, RIP little one


As you say, if you put the time and effort in you can achieve results. You must have the patience to do it that's all. My parents have always said that I have no patience but have achieved things with Rocky that even I thought I wouldn't.

Thank you so much Nikki, that has really given me hope. I'm sorry you had to go through that with Mazda but it seems to me you are a wonderful owner.

So sad about the little puppy but the look on Mazda's face is brilliant. The caption could be "seriously how can anything be THAT small"

Hi and welcome from me too. I am glad you have found this forum. I would be lost without it too. Please dont put your handsome dog Meiko down, hes done nothing wrong. Take on board all the good advice. Back to basics. I would also suggest you dont be too hard on Meiko, they are very much people dogs, and can sense your pains, which in turn would upset them ever more when they are ignored for too long periods for doing wrong. Staffies are very clever dogs, they know when they have been told off, just dont drag it on. Pixee can be DA sometimes with the small dogs. I always make sure she is put back on the lead when I see any other dogs about. There are a few dogs she does get on with, thank fully. I also have to warn people not to fuss her, cos she is very wary of them and will bark back, you can imagine the looks I get cos she is a staffy, but I just ignore that, I know why she is doing it, and that is all that matters. Good luck, you are doing all things right.