collars

has anyone had any experience with the "cesar millan" illusion collar as im thinking of getting one for chester as i dont like the halti i got him but need something to control him on walks!

How long have you been working with the halti? it takes time and practice for both of you. training and walking alone, I wouldn't use the illusion collar on a pup or anything like the illusion collar on a pup.

i only got the halti last weekend and have been putting it on chester daily for only minutes at a time (if that) and he has got better with it but can still pull it off (he made himself bleed yesterday) im worried if we r out and he wants to pull it off badly he will (he only pulls when another dog is in sight) although he is only 6 months old he is stronger than willow on the lead already

It's a check (choke) collar - not something I would ever dream of using on a pup. It's totally unnecessary.

Why do you feel that you need this sort of collar? That sounds like I'm criticizing - I'm not, I just wonder why an ordinary collar or harness couldn't be used?

i didnt say i say i was getting one only "thinking" about getting one i would never get one without looking into it as i did with the halti! but using the halti on chester he looks really miserable with it on and i know i wouldnt want that on my face the illusion collar just looks not as invasive!

It's a check chain. Pure & simple.

I can't remember if you've said why an ordinary collar won't work?

it works ok sometimes! but i have willow on walk with me too who i must say only ever wants to say hello to other dogs! chester however want to growl and pull to other dogs and really aggressively he is VERY strong and sometimes its to much for me it makes the walk no pleasure and i need something to help me ( i take a water spray, treats) with me but when he narrows into a dog these dont matter to him. i dont really have time in the day to take them individually

Have you tried a harness with a front D-ring to clip the lead to? That way you could use a double ended lead and clip one end to the front of the harness & one to the back. That way you should have full control as any time he pulls his own weight will turn him around.

can you give me a link for this harness? i have a harness but not the sort you are saying about! i would so much prefer a harness type thing!

Here's some on Amazon...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/HALTI-Halti-Harness-Medium/dp/B000NWJ7FY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334265280&sr=8-1

cheers will check out now

not really sure from pic? is it a lead that connects harness and collar?

The harness has two lead attachment points - the usual one on the back & one on the chest strap. You can either attach the lead on the front so that if he pulls his own weight will turn him around, or you can attach the lead to the back like an ordinary harness or you can use a double ended lead and attach the ends to both rings.

I would seriousely stick to the head halti for a few more weeks if he is pulling out of it then like i believe i said before it is too big for him, if he is rubbing his head with it on (why he was bleeding) then stop him from doing it give him a correction, hold his head up and just walk on.. you can adjust the halti yourself find out what part is too big aka the muzzle part or the head part, fold over the extra lose bit and sew it tripling your stitching, also if your still concerned, get yourself a nice strong piece of material and attach it to the back of the neck part of the halti and to his regular collar, just like the safety link/material and clasp they send with the halti only a bigger version. Walk him alone just having your girl with you will excite him or cause him to be more protective of other dogs especially if she is reactive friendly or otherwise.He uses his body use your body block him anyway possible. build up your upper strengh some how because he is only going to get bigger alot bigger and you need to keep him secure and under control. sorry to say this but no one has any business having/owning a dog they can not keep under control.

Think that last bit a bit harsh claire, we all know how strong our staffs can be.. personally I think willowthewisp maybe needs some help with training, are there any classes you can attend? He is prob protecting your other dog, he needs to kno that you are the protector so he doesn't need to be.. a harness with a front d ring like the halti harness works well for me, I use it with a double ended lead, I find it gives good control..x

Harsh but true....if one can not control their dog, one should not have a dog.

Caryll wrote:Here's some on Amazon...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/HALTI-Halti-Harness-Medium/dp/B000NWJ7FY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334265280&sr=8-1

This is what I use for Violet and our walks are really enjoyable now - she had a head halti before, but it just made her miserable. (I know, you shouldn't pander to your dogs whims, but what's the point in me having a dog if I'm making her miserable?) For our needs, I find just having the lead on the front section works well. Our training is coming along a lot better now too - because I'm not constantly trying to corral her, we can spend time on 'road safety' etc.

Very true but think she just wanted tips on how to get control

kate32 wrote:Think that last bit a bit harsh claire, we all know how strong our staffs can be.. personally I think willowthewisp maybe needs some help with training, are there any classes you can attend? He is prob protecting your other dog, he needs to kno that you are the protector so he doesn't need to be.. a harness with a front d ring like the halti harness works well for me, I use it with a double ended lead, I find it gives good control..x

thanks kate32 i can do without comments like that from claire im on this forum seeking advise! i do take chester training every week the trainer thinks hes protecting me any tips anyone can give is all im asking for!

MissRogue wrote:Harsh but true....if one can not control their dog, one should not have a dog.

why do you think im asking advise!!!

Skye is a puller too, but i found using a harness and just the basic heel training in a week or two she was great on the lead .. same as vinnie, he pulled for about a week and is amazing on the lead now.
Whenever skye pulled i would make her come to heel and then we would carry on, it can take a little while and your walks become longer with the stop start stop start lol but it worked for me

staffy-lover89 wrote:Skye is a puller too, but i found using a harness and just the basic heel training in a week or two she was great on the lead .. same as vinnie, he pulled for about a week and is amazing on the lead now.
Whenever skye pulled i would make her come to heel and then we would carry on, it can take a little while and your walks become longer with the stop start stop start lol but it worked for me

chester doesnt really pull unless there another dog around i do heel work and dog training and hes ok until we see another dog!

Yea maisy like that when she sees another dog, she wants to say hi, the harness with the front d ring stops her pulling so she makes little noises instead!

Sounds like you doing all the right things, maybe try the harness instead of the headcollar

willowthewisp wrote:

MissRogue wrote:Harsh but true....if one can not control their dog, one should not have a dog.

why do you think im asking advise!!!

but you have yet to take the advice from the first advice topic you posted, alot of people gave you good advice but you didn't take it. the trainer was probabilly right but it shouldn't be the case Chester should know you can handle him and anything else so he doesn't feel you need protecting, so you need to take control, which is what i advised.
Keep trying the head halti (one that fits) just you knowing you have complete and utter control will give you enough confidence to handle anything, he will get used to it adventually by doing things like feeding him with it on/playing etc
A harness gives you control of the body (hardly) but its not his body that is the worry its his head/mouth when he is being aggressive and using the head halti will give you complete control.
Harness and head halti, two way lead one clasp on the harness the other on the head halti and you hold the lead int he middle, walk him on his own so you have your mind on him and him only, short sharp corrections followed by rewards, if you see another dog coming stop, sit him down and stuff him full of treats until the dog has passed this way he will associate the dog with a good thing, the follow time he can being looking in the dogs direction, hold a treat to his nose so he follows it (looking away from the dog) and reward.
teach the focus command where he looks directly at you,hold up a treat so he knows you have put it to face (have eye contact, say the command and reward) so when your out and about you can use the command while another dog is passing.

linzy wrote:

Caryll wrote:Here's some on Amazon...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/HALTI-Halti-Harness-Medium/dp/B000NWJ7FY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334265280&sr=8-1

This is what I use for Violet and our walks are really enjoyable now - she had a head halti before, but it just made her miserable. (I know, you shouldn't pander to your dogs whims, but what's the point in me having a dog if I'm making her miserable?) For our needs, I find just having the lead on the front section works well. Our training is coming along a lot better now too - because I'm not constantly trying to corral her, we can spend time on 'road safety' etc.

I stopped using the Gentle Leader because Troy looked depressed with it on.

How does the harness actually work? Does it turn them like the head halti does? What if they see another dog or cat etc and they dash / run to the end of the lead? Does it stop your dog from doing such things?

I found with the gentle leader, Troy still pull even with his face sideways if he really wanted to get somewhere!

A little review would be great as I am interested in it.

Thanks.

I've not actually used one, but the theory is that as the dog pulls forward, the lead attached to the front of the harness makes him turn - ie he is using his own impetus/strength to turn him away from his focus. That would stop the pulling to a greater extent, but it wouldn't turn his head away from the thing that had attracted him in the first place.

What a lot of people do is use a halti harness together with either a gentle leader or a halti.

Nah, I don't want nothing on Troy's face. He looks like he ain't enjoying life when it's on LOL.

You could also use the halti harness with a half check collar & a double ended lead. That way you'll have control of his neck as well as the front clip on the harness.

Caryll wrote:I've not actually used one, but the theory is that as the dog pulls forward, the lead attached to the front of the harness makes him turn - ie he is using his own impetus/strength to turn him away from his focus. That would stop the pulling to a greater extent, but it wouldn't turn his head away from the thing that had attracted him in the first place.

What a lot of people do is use a halti harness together with either a gentle leader or a halti.

I was going to get a halti as marley pulls like a steam train but after I saw your post about the harness I thought for the price I may as well give it a go. the local pet shop only had small and large but they are ordering one in the correct size for Marley. Will post some before and after Vids when I get it but it sounds like just the thing I need. I know the Halti works as my brother trained his dobe with one to great effect but this sounds like an alternative worth a try.

Caryll wrote:You could also use the halti harness with a half check collar & a double ended lead. That way you'll have control of his neck as well as the front clip on the harness.

I'll keep that in mind, as I already have a half check collar I use.

I am going to just keep up with his training for now as he actually walks nice a lot of the time. It's just on those 'special occasions' I wish he would behave

Steve, I agree! Rascal is a shocker for pulling, but she is improving. The only thing that seems to work with her is for me to stop dead as soon as she pulls. She's beginning to understand that the more she pulls, the longer it takes to get where she wants to go As soon as we see another dog I say "watch" and when she looks up at me I repeat the command and give her a treat immediately and keep treating her the whole time a dog passes by and she leaves it alone while saying "watch". She's starting to now look back at me when she sees another dog (she's not consistent with this though).

I just do not have the upper body strength to hold onto a 15kg dog for an hour long walk - I don't think too many people would!!! The suggestions I've listed above were given to me back when Rascal was 6mths old and driving us crazy with her pulling. I'm afraid to say it is still a work in progress, but there has definitely been heaps of improvement. Takes perseverance and consistency. MissRogue, I truly think Willowthewisp is very sensibly seeking guidance on how to help Chester get past this fascination with other dogs. Your comments were quite harsh which I don't believe to be very helpful - least of all for Chester and his family. We can have no idea what the situation is from just reading the small amt of info here - Willowthewisp comes across as a sensible, dedicated dog owner/handler (whatever word you want to use) who is committed to working on this issue until it is resolved. She also comes across as someone who knows her dog and what she is and is not comfortable using. Some of your comments were great advice - I think you could have left off the harsh bits though, they're not warranted in this case.

rascal-girl wrote:Steve, I agree! Rascal is a shocker for pulling, but she is improving. The only thing that seems to work with her is for me to stop dead as soon as she pulls. She's beginning to understand that the more she pulls, the longer it takes to get where she wants to go As soon as we see another dog I say "watch" and when she looks up at me I repeat the command and give her a treat immediately and keep treating her the whole time a dog passes by and she leaves it alone while saying "watch". She's starting to now look back at me when she sees another dog (she's not consistent with this though).

I just do not have the upper body strength to hold onto a 15kg dog for an hour long walk - I don't think too many people would!!! The suggestions I've listed above were given to me back when Rascal was 6mths old and driving us crazy with her pulling. I'm afraid to say it is still a work in progress, but there has definitely been heaps of improvement. Takes perseverance and consistency. MissRogue, I truly think Willowthewisp is very sensibly seeking guidance on how to help Chester get past this fascination with other dogs. Your comments were quite harsh which I don't believe to be very helpful - least of all for Chester and his family. We can have no idea what the situation is from just reading the small amt of info here - Willowthewisp comes across as a sensible, dedicated dog owner/handler (whatever word you want to use) who is committed to working on this issue until it is resolved. She also comes across as someone who knows her dog and what she is and is not comfortable using. Some of your comments were great advice - I think you could have left off the harsh bits though, they're not warranted in this case.

thank you for your lovely post( to steve) i also have tried the "watch me" training which works ok as long as chester doesnt make eye contact with other dogs then he "doesnt watch me" i have worked with him with lots of other issues which he and i have done so well with its just this one with other dogs i cant seem to crack! i may have been alittle over sensitve with miss rogue as some advise was good i agree perseverance is key!

Don't forget that Chester is still only a baby. Some things take a lot longer to learn than others & the excitement of seeing another dog may take a little while to calm down. As long as you stay calm & keep up with the training you'll get there!

Dempsey was always bad when he saw another dog & if he was off lead we had to be damn quick before he shot off! I despared of him ever behaving himself. But over the last 9 months or so he has changed dramatically. He's much calmer & more self-assured, and so is less excitable when other dogs are around. Because he is calmer he is much easier to control & he will ignore them now.

Chester'll get there!

Caryll wrote:Don't forget that Chester is still only a baby. Some things take a lot longer to learn than others & the excitement of seeing another dog may take a little while to calm down. As long as you stay calm & keep up with the training you'll get there!

Dempsey was always bad when he saw another dog & if he was off lead we had to be damn quick before he shot off! I despared of him ever behaving himself. But over the last 9 months or so he has changed dramatically. He's much calmer & more self-assured, and so is less excitable when other dogs are around. Because he is calmer he is much easier to control & he will ignore them now.

Chester'll get there!

yes i think i forget sometimes that chester is still a baby! he is very trainable 2, im just a worry wart and im trying to stay calm we will get there!!!