How to divert Troy's attention / Stop him from pulling to cats and dogs?

Hi guys,

Had Troy two weeks now and he is improving slightly in regards to particular aspects of his behaviour. One thing that can get very frustrating is him eye balling people across the road, cats and other dogs.

If he see's another dog in the park he will divert all his attention to it, pull in that direction and moan / whimper very loudly. No matter who much you try and pull him away etc, he won't stop until the dog has left his vision. He was pulling towards a bag blowing down the street yesterday!

Anyway, it's not a very pleasurable experience and is embarrassing as the other dogs are walking pleasantly with their handler, it makes my dog look out of control! Otherwise he does listen, sits at roads, lays down, stays, doesn't eat his food until I say etc.

Any tips would be appreciated, thansk.

Is he food orientated? If he is, teach him to 'watch' you. Get him to sit, hold a treat in front of your face & say "Watch". As soon as he looks at you give him the treat. When he's looking every time, delay giving the treat for a few seconds & gradually build it up until he'll watch you without getting the treat!

Then, when you're outside, try to get him to do the same: sit, watch & treat. He will soon realise that if his attention's on the dog/person/paper bag he doesn't get the treat, but if he watches you, he does!

Troy..food orientated? Hell yeah! lol. He is a right greedy guts!

Yeah, this watch method was mentioned to me before. Sounds like a good idea, I'll go with it.

Just one thing. Troy came to be not very well trained. I have taught him to sit, stay and just managed lie down.

I was teaching him one trick at a time, but is it okay to teach them several things at the same time?

Thanks.

Yes, but not for long periods. Just 5 or 10 minutes at a time. Maybe 2 or three times a day. Also, always finish with something you know the dog can do well, even if it's just a sit - that way you finish on a good note & the dog will look forward to the next session.

You'll be surprised what they can remember when there is food involved!

Yeah I don't do long sessions. Do about twice a day also.

That's cool then, I'll let you know how we get on.

Thanks.

You could also try clicker training with food, ie use the clicker and when he looks at you give a treat. This will allow him to associate multiple senses with the reward.

Yeah I clicker train at the moment. What would I do then, click and once he makes I contact, treat?

I think it's the other way round - you let him make eye contact and then click & treat.

But then I don't clicker train, so someone'll probably tell me I'm talking a load of tosh!

You're probably right lol

We give her a treat if she looks when we click. The sound is meant to get her to look at us.

Cool

I need to start this training ASAP because he seems to be getting worse.

Just seen another dog on the other side of the road, Troy obviously wanted to go towards it and start pulling and moaning.

I kept pulling him back and waiting for the dog to go around the corner and out of our vision, but he just sat there for 5 minutes bawling his head off wanting to get to the dog.

I carried on walking but the lady and the dog were still there at the bus stop. I had to keep pulling Troy and literally he was up in the air (due to the harness).

I hate to say it, but I'm seeing behaviour in the dog which would of made the previous owner want to get rid of him.

Obviously that's not something I am considering, it's just really stressful and extremely embarrassing when on the street. Even though I don't believe it is in an aggressive manner, can you imagine what people are thinking?

'Oh look a Staffy, wants to go attack that dog'.

Sigh........

I think you'll find that the previous owner couldn't be bothered with the training in the first place!

At least you want to help him & I, personally, think you're doing a grand job!

He definitely couldn't be bothered. He more or less said so!

Thanks a lot.

I think Troy maybe meeting two dogs over the weekend. I'm assuming some socialising may help.

Never got to meet those two dogs in the end, will try again this weekend.

I've taught him the 'look' command and he looks at me straight away. I am trying to do it so he gives me longer and longer eye contact now.

Hos attention was somthing else when I was walking him yesterday, I said 'look' which he did and fed him a treat. He then goes back to looking / trying to get to what he was before LOL.

How does this progress to them completely ignoring what they were initially interested in?

Anyone?

So, Troy had his first social experience with a friends dog yesterday.

Initially Troy was doing his usual pulling like a freight train towards the dog and whining and the other dog a bitch, was barking and showing her teeth agressively.

We walked for about 10 minutes with the other dog in front and Troy doing his pull and choke act and after a while they both calmed down and Troy was walking nicer also.

Eventually he started ignoring the other dog a little bit and wasn't too bothered she was there and we started walking in front. He would look back to see if she was still there but overall it was good.

We never let them stiff each other though really, as the other dog can snap a bit. Whenever Troy does his moaning / whimpering act it seems to turn the other dog agressive even though Troy doesn't mean it agressively.

The other dog seemed to have mites too so don't want them to come into close contact as I believe they can be passed on to Troy?

Thanks.

I think you're doing quite well, considering I doubt he's had any training whatsoever!

It can take a while for a dog to give you his full attention for more than a few seconds. Keep lugging at it & you'll see improvement gradually over the next few days/weeks. It will come, though.

If you see this other dog again, I'd try walking side by side with the dogs both on the outside to start with. Then swap one dog to the middle, and change that round after a while. Eventually you can try walking them side by side, but keep alert for any signs of either of them not being happy about it.

Once they can walk side by side, you could try letting them play - maybe keeping Troy on a long line for a while to make sure you have control if you're not absolutely sure.

P.S. Mites can be passed on, but if you have a word with your veterinary nurse they should be able to give you a spot on treatment that will guard against them.

i have this same problem with chloe so i can sympathize completely, especially when you get looks from other owners that say 'look at that typical staffy, dog aggressive'
Food doesnt work with her so trying the squeaky toy technique, although not had much chance to try it out yet! but it is all about persistance, and im hoping it will pay off. maybe when shes old lol!

I wouldn't worry so much about it. Romeo sometimes acts like that and hes far better trained then other dogs I meet on our walks. He went completely mental last night, he caught some sort of scent on the stairs leading down to the tube. Humouring him I let him walk down thinking there was another dog down there, he walked straight across and up the other staircase and started lunging at some woman walking past! Either shes got a pet fox or a bitch in season because those are the things he goes nuts over!
If hes being really naughty I just used the Bill Sikes voice which always works like a charm, although other people must think i'm a bat short of a belfrey. Basically, if you haven't watched or read Oliver you just talk in a really, really low, gruff growly voice. Its far more effective then shouting.

I guess after time he will hopefully settle down. He's still a pain but I'll keep you up to date with any progress.

I am going to introduce him to my brother 12 week or so old puppy. As he is so young and Troy is friendly I am assuming there should be no issues?

Only just come across this, first of all well done on taking on Troy. And you are doing well, just time and patient. I know full well what you mean re the looks. Just ignore them, cos sadly they know nothing! This forum is brillant for advice. I would be lost without it too.

Thanks all.

Well I went to the vets today (Troy had conjunctivitis a long with an ear infection upon getting him it seems!) and he played up something rotten. There was another dog in the waiting room and Troy was doing his usual whimpering and moaning but was very loud and he would not stop! Even when he met the dog and had a sniff as soon as he walked away that was it! Back howling again!

Even after the dog left, he was so excited he was whimpering and pulling etc, complete nightmare! The GF got stressed out this time!

I really hope he calms down soon, because this behaviour must be the most daunting this about owning Troy. What can I do in situations like this? I can't remove either dog or leave the room and he won't listen to anything at the time so what can I do? Is it just a case of getting better over time?

To let you know, he had another social meeting yesterday with my brothers 11 week or so puppy

At first the puppy was scared and Troy was doing his usual stuff..as above. After greeting and smelling my dogs puppy was doing the usual teasing, snapping and playful things. Troy didn't mind at all and was very friendly but all he wanted to do was hump my brothers dog! Even though it is a male.

I know they can do this as a sign of dominance but I don't think it is that due to their ages, I just think Troy is randy.

Troy sounds lovely and you can see from how he plays with your brother's puppy that he has good social skills. The humping can simply be from excitement but it can lead to trouble if he tries it on other dogs. It is a dominant thing to do so try to nip it in the bud every time it starts with gentle correction, a word or a touch. Just enough to let him know that that behaviour is not acceptable.
As for meeting other dogs, try to get him calmed down around dogs in a general sense. Take him on a lead to a town center or anywhere that you can find dogs on leads rather than running free. Allow him to look at dogs and get used to walking past and generally get him calmed down ech time he sees another dog. Don't worry about the other dog's behaviour, concentrate on your dog and set an example to him of calm indifference. The excitement is the first thing to help him with.
A meeting doesn't have to mean physical contact. Two dogs on leads, ten feet apart, will very quickly sum each other up and decide whether they are friendly or not. The important thing is to remain calm in yourself and transmit no tension to Troy. A tense lead will tell him that you are tense and he will become tense himself.
As has been mentioned he earlier, try to walk him with other dogs.
Most meetings between dogs walking with their owners are face-to-face. This is two packs meeting and it can cause tension.
Walking along with another dog or dogs touches something very deep in a dog's genetics. They are pack animals and walking with their pack is what they do naturally. It calms them down and generates friendship.

Troy sounds lovely and you can see from how he plays with your brother's puppy that he has good social skills. The humping can simply be from excitement but it can lead to trouble if he tries it on other dogs. It is a dominant thing to do so try to nip it in the bud every time it starts with gentle correction, a word or a touch. Just enough to let him know that that behaviour is not acceptable.

Yeah, I went back up there today and Troy wasn't very fussed about him as they have already met! They were both off the leash in the garden having fun. He tried to hump a few times but nothing like yesterday. I told him no every time.

As for meeting other dogs, try to get him calmed down around dogs in a general sense. Take him on a lead to a town center or anywhere that you can find dogs on leads rather than running free. Allow him to look at dogs and get used to walking past and generally get him calmed down ech time he sees another dog. Don't worry about the other dog's behaviour, concentrate on your dog and set an example to him of calm indifference. The excitement is the first thing to help him with.
A meeting doesn't have to mean physical contact. Two dogs on leads, ten feet apart, will very quickly sum each other up and decide whether they are friendly or not. The important thing is to remain calm in yourself and transmit no tension to Troy. A tense lead will tell him that you are tense and he will become tense himself.
As has been mentioned he earlier, try to walk him with other dogs.
Most meetings between dogs walking with their owners are face-to-face. This is two packs meeting and it can cause tension.

Troy usually pulls and stares in that direction and whimpers until the dog out of sight and is still hyped up once the dog is gone! I don't put any tension on the lead, it is Troy that does that by pulling! So not sure how I am supposed to get around that one?

Walking along with another dog or dogs touches something very deep in a dog's genetics. They are pack animals and walking with their pack is what they do naturally. It calms them down and generates friendship.

Yeah, I have read this and noticed myself how calm they become while walking.

Thanks a lot for you reply.

At first the puppy was scared and Troy was doing his usual stuff..as above. After greeting and smelling my dogs puppy was doing the usual teasing, snapping and playful things. Troy didn't mind at all and was very friendly but all he wanted to do was hump my brothers dog! Even though it is a male.

I know they can do this as a sign of dominance but I don't think it is that due to their ages, I just think Troy is randy.

Yes it is dominance. No it isn't him just being 'randy'. My boy has never humped another dog, person or furniture. The only thing he gets 'randy' over is an un-spayed bitch. To blame bad behaviour on a dog being entire is laziness and a terrible excuse.
Troy will settle down, he's come to basic training very late and these things take time. If you get stressed about it he's going to pick up on this and get tizzed up even more. The best thing is to keep a cool head.

I have witnessed Troy trying to hump his bedding only a couple of times. I'm not a dog physiologist and thought maybe he was just randy.

To suggest I am being lazy or using excuses for his behaviour is unfair.

Here is a video I posted in another thread. This is what happens when he see's other cats and dogs:

Click here for video

The video looks really bad, I can see how frustrating this is.
From what I see in this short clip, it doesn't sound like aggressive intent, more like exitement and wanting to go and investigate, but that's a dangerous assumption.
In the video you make no attempt to correct or break Troy's focus, I presume just for the demonstration.
Go back to basics . Start by checking by yourself. Am I calm?, Am I relaxed? Am I ready? getting Troy calm, completetly calm and attentive to you before anything else.
Take each stage, putting the lead on, to the door, to the garden etc. as separate excercises. If the dog makes a mistake at any time, go back to the place that he behaved well. Get him back to the calm state that you want and do it again. This is a test of your patence, the dog will always be willing to try again.
Watch your dog carefully during the excercise, while maintaing a relaxed lead. If you spot the first signs of excitement such as head up, ears forward, tail up, hackles rising, excited tail wagging and spot them early, you have a chance to prevent him escalating. At the first hint of excitement, give a firm sideways correction with the lead. Enough to get him off-balance. if he's close to a calm state, tell him 'No' as well. If he responds, give him a little praise, but gently, with no excitement. If he looks at you for guidance (what a result!!) praise him with a look and a calm quiet voice. They get that very well. Don't get excited when he does well, remember, never add excitement to an excited dog.
Dogs react much quicker than us. You must have seen how quickly they can change from a resting state to full on play state as soon as you pick up a toy
If he's calm he will respond to sounds, but once he's in the state that he's in in the video, he won't hear you, and he wont even feel a strong correction. You have to be very quick to correct in the very early stage of excitement. Never again ever allow him to escalate to that high state. If he makes a mistake you can always go back and start again.
There are no special tricks to this, no instant fixes. It's not about training It's all about limits and letting the dog know that certain behaviours are not acceptable in your pack.
It's a partnership that will take patience and love from you.

Gee wrote:I have witnessed Troy trying to hump his bedding only a couple of times. I'm not a dog physiologist and thought maybe he was just randy.

To suggest I am being lazy or using excuses for his behaviour is unfair.

Humping can be both dominance and randiness! At his age the hormones are raging & he may well try to hump his bedding or cushions etc. As long as you stop him every time he'll soon get bored with it! Humping legs & other dogs is pure dominance, and must be stopped as sooner or later he'll come up against a dog that objects very strongly (like my boy) and all hell will break loose! If he tries to hump a dog, then straight on the lead & take him away until he's calm. Every time.

The video looks really bad, I can see how frustrating this is.

Yup, very bad and very frustrating. He can behave like this on walks and in the park. Very embarrassing also.

From what I see in this short clip, it doesn't sound like aggressive intent, more like exitement and wanting to go and investigate, but that's a dangerous assumption.

I think it is this also, he acts exactly the same towards dogs and shuts up if he is allowed to say hi and play. But for obvious reasons cats won't let him get that close Next doors cat does get brave sometimes and they get very close. When this happens Troy is very silent then drives to dive towards the cat suddenly, but I'm still not convinced it is aggressive. I still think he just wants to investigate and play.

In the video you make no attempt to correct or break Troy's focus, I presume just for the demonstration.

Yes you are right, this is the reason. What type of correction would you suggest in a situation like this? His excitement level is so high he probably can't even hear me and touch seems to make him worse. He does jump in my lap as if he is looking for some sort of reassurance though.

Go back to basics . Start by checking by yourself. Am I calm?, Am I relaxed? Am I ready? getting Troy calm, completetly calm and attentive to you before anything else.

I am calm and relaxed, I'm sort of used to it now! And don't bother myself so much when it's in my front garden. Get Troy completely calm and completely attentive to me is almost impossible when he knows he is heading towards where there is usually 4 cats. Suggestions?

Take each stage, putting the lead on, to the door, to the garden etc. as separate excercises. If the dog makes a mistake at any time, go back to the place that he behaved well. Get him back to the calm state that you want and do it again. This is a test of your patence, the dog will always be willing to try again.

He knows he has to sit and stop running around etc before I put his lead on in the house, then when I enter the porch he starts whining and jumping up to look out. I guess at this point I should take him back into the house?

Watch your dog carefully during the excercise, while maintaing a relaxed lead. If you spot the first signs of excitement such as head up, ears forward, tail up, hackles rising, excited tail wagging and spot them early, you have a chance to prevent him escalating. At the first hint of excitement, give a firm sideways correction with the lead. Enough to get him off-balance. if he's close to a calm state, tell him 'No' as well. If he responds, give him a little praise, but gently, with no excitement. If he looks at you for guidance (what a result!!) praise him with a look and a calm quiet voice. They get that very well. Don't get excited when he does well, remember, never add excitement to an excited dog.

Hmm, he does look at my for guidance sometimes so just praise him when he does? He just looks at me as if he has no clue and understands as to why I am even correcting him etc.

I sideways tug on the lead etc usually makes no difference. Once he is excited, he stays excited. Guess just stick at it? Even if I tell him to 'look' he'll come towards me, take his treat then instantly go back to pulling etc.

Dogs react much quicker than us. You must have seen how quickly they can change from a resting state to full on play state as soon as you pick up a toy
If he's calm he will respond to sounds, but once he's in the state that he's in in the video, he won't hear you, and he wont even feel a strong correction. You have to be very quick to correct in the very early stage of excitement. Never again ever allow him to escalate to that high state. If he makes a mistake you can always go back and start again.

Don't know how I am going to manage that, he saw a cat in the park today and reacted the same. I didn't even see the cat so had no chance, he was off. I have tried to quickly correct his excitement. If he hears a dog bark in the distance for example, his head stands tall and his ears * up, I try and tell him shh or no and tried touch but it doesn't work.

There are no special tricks to this, no instant fixes. It's not about training It's all about limits and letting the dog know that certain behaviours are not acceptable in your pack.
It's a partnership that will take patience and love from you.

I try and correct him and make him understand what is not acceptable but it is as if he doesn't get it. Touch, sound..whatever seems to make no difference to him. When I am walking him and he is trying to pull and I stop, turn and head in the other direction, he sometimes just starts to pull in that direction or to the left or right and looking around with excitement in WHATEVER direction he is in. Once one little thing sets him off, that's it. Walk ruined.

He is fine early in the morning and late at night (mostly) as it is quieter. I noticed when I was walking him yesterday he was licking his snout a lot as if he was nervous but it maybe me just looking into things too much.

I swear, the state this dog gets into sometimes, Cesar Milan would put a E collar on him.

Caryll wrote:

Gee wrote:I have witnessed Troy trying to hump his bedding only a couple of times. I'm not a dog physiologist and thought maybe he was just randy.

To suggest I am being lazy or using excuses for his behaviour is unfair.

Humping can be both dominance and randiness! At his age the hormones are raging & he may well try to hump his bedding or cushions etc. As long as you stop him every time he'll soon get bored with it! Humping legs & other dogs is pure dominance, and must be stopped as sooner or later he'll come up against a dog that objects very strongly (like my boy) and all hell will break loose! If he tries to hump a dog, then straight on the lead & take him away until he's calm. Every time.

Yup, I tell him no straight away and when he looks like he is going to hump, I tell him no before he has a chance and he stops. He greeted another larger male dog yesterday, had a sniff etc. The other dog was fine, wasn't fussed about Troy. What does Troy do? Yup, tries to hump him. So he is trying to dominate a dog instantly within 5 seconds of meeting?

<<So he is trying to dominate a dog instantly within 5 seconds of meeting?>>
It is dominant behaviour but it's not necessarily caused by dominance. It may be triggered by excitement and inexperience, just him trying to play. Overexcitement again. How did the other dog react?
Do you think he felt it as dominance?
They react differently from the way they react to a bit of puppylike stupidity to the way they react if it's true dominance.

I really think it all comes down to lack of training and socialisation as a pup. What would normally be so easy to instil in him as a 12 week old pup is going to take a bit longer as an older dog.

He sounds quite friendly, but has no idea of the right etiquette when meeting other dogs. It'll be up to you, I'm afraid, to teach him this. Whether it's dominance, randiness, excitement or just plain contrariness, you must stop him humping other dogs. I know people think it's quite hilarious, but it can cause serious fights when another dog takes exception to it.

The first fight Dempsey had was purely because of that sort of behaviour from another dog. He was fine the first couple of times, although he obviously wasn't too happy with it. But the 3rd or 4th time the dog did it, Dempsey growled. The other dog growled back & there was instant aggression from both of them. There were some nasty bite wounds to deal with & a £60 vet bill for me because Dempsey's bites got infected!

As soon as he humps, you go straight in with the "No!" and pull him off. Make him sit & calm down before allowing him freedom again. If he won't calm down then keep him on a lead for a while.

Oclasticon wrote:<<So he is trying to dominate a dog instantly within 5 seconds of meeting?>>
It is dominant behaviour but it's not necessarily caused by dominance. It may be triggered by excitement and inexperience, just him trying to play. Overexcitement again. How did the other dog react?
Do you think he felt it as dominance?
They react differently from the way they react to a bit of puppylike stupidity to the way they react if it's true dominance.

I personally think Troy gets excited and doesn't know how to be polite when greeting dogs due to not being very socialised. The other dog showed his teeth and growled. I always tell Troy 'No' and pull him off etc.

Caryll wrote:I really think it all comes down to lack of training and socialisation as a pup. What would normally be so easy to instil in him as a 12 week old pup is going to take a bit longer as an older dog.

He sounds quite friendly, but has no idea of the right etiquette when meeting other dogs. It'll be up to you, I'm afraid, to teach him this. Whether it's dominance, randiness, excitement or just plain contrariness, you must stop him humping other dogs. I know people think it's quite hilarious, but it can cause serious fights when another dog takes exception to it.

The first fight Dempsey had was purely because of that sort of behaviour from another dog. He was fine the first couple of times, although he obviously wasn't too happy with it. But the 3rd or 4th time the dog did it, Dempsey growled. The other dog growled back & there was instant aggression from both of them. There were some nasty bite wounds to deal with & a £60 vet bill for me because Dempsey's bites got infected!

As soon as he humps, you go straight in with the "No!" and pull him off. Make him sit & calm down before allowing him freedom again. If he won't calm down then keep him on a lead for a while.

He is friendly, he has never shown any aggression or anything towards other dogs, all of his encounters are fine. He just sniffs and plays. I think it is probably down to what you have mentioned.

Sorry to hear about what happened to Dempsey. This is what I don't want happening with Troy. Even when other dogs snap at him, he doesn't show any aggression.

I had him on the log lead today for the first time. His recall is really good, we were play fetch for a while and even when walking he doesn't want to venture far away from me...except when he see's a dog.

He was up to his usual tricks but I think I may of found something that helps, please share your opinion on this.

I am happy for him to show interest in dogs and look, but do not want him pulling towards them or him moaning. What I found today is that if I turn him in the opposite direction so he can't see the dog and tell him 'shh' or 'no' he seems to quieten down. Once he is quiet I will let him look, but if he pulls or starts to whimper I turn him back around and so forth.

Is this a tactic that will work or should I consider something else?

<<Is this a tactic that will work or should I consider something else?>>

All dogs are different. You should use what works for your dog and it sounds as if Troy is responding to you well.
You wrote the other day that you are beginning to 'get used' to being calm with Troy.
It's really hard to remain calm in the face of an excited dog, but it sounds to me that, rather than getting used to it, you are getting better at it.
Whoop! Whoop! You should celebrate the success that you are having.

Thanks for the encouraging comments.

When I turn him around in order to face the opposite direction, I kneel down as it is easier to control him and block his view. Is kneeling okay or does this send some other type of signal to the dog?

I read you should never kneel over dogs?

Thanks.

I read you should never kneel over dogs

Really, where did you read that? I've never heard of that. Well the only thing I can think of is he'd take it as a signal to jump on you and give you a big french kiss-thats what Romeo would do!

shakespearesdog wrote:

I read you should never kneel over dogs

Really, where did you read that? I've never heard of that. Well the only thing I can think of is he'd take it as a signal to jump on you and give you a big french kiss-thats what Romeo would do!

Kneeling by your dog's side is no problem & if it helps to control him & divert his attention then great.

What I tend to discourage is leaning over your dog in a dominant way, unless you are a) very sure of your dog's reaction & b) quite experienced in training dogs.

If a dog is in a hightened state then leaning over him could provoke an unthinking response - ie you could get snapped at or even bitten!

Cool.

Yeah, I kneel down next to him, not over him. Probably those reasons you listed as to what I read about not kneeling over them.

if your going to use the clicker here is a link that might help you:

http://www.clickerlessons.com/

Thanks, I'll take a look.