The Alpha Myth
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The Alpha Myth
Thought I'd share this - it gave me food for thought & made me re-think the whole 'pack leader' thing...
http://www.doglistener.co.uk/alpha/thealphamyth.shtml
http://www.doglistener.co.uk/alpha/thealphamyth.shtml
Guest- Guest
Re: The Alpha Myth
I think the main debate centers more on vocabulary and interpretation. Most often advocates of the pack leader theory (which I myself strongly believe in) are simply ascerting the fact that the dog must know that you are in charge and they take direction from you and not in anyway meant to express that you should act as a pack in the wild.
Publishing an article that asserts the pack leader theory is worthless because even if you dress in a Scooby Doo costume and pee up walls the dog will know you are human is a bit irresponsible, sensationalist and ridicules other experts opionions.
When we first get a dog we walk through the door first, set certain boundaries such as where the dog is allowed to go and what furniture, if any is acceptable to jump up on, no nipping or aggreesive behaviour towards people or other dogs etc. The most important IMHO is no bothering people when they are eating and we eat first or at least at the same time. This one rule never changes as I believe dogs are food driven by nature.
As the dog learns the rules we increase the privilages the dog is alowed to have more priviliges such as allowed on furniture and access to the whole house. If they start to try to reassert their dominance over us such as the teenage phase we go back to the begining and start over.
I think another good example of being a "pack leader" is evident when a secondary member of the household will take the dog for a walk and a well behaved dog will pull and do everything they won't normally do with their primary handler.
Sorry for the long post
Publishing an article that asserts the pack leader theory is worthless because even if you dress in a Scooby Doo costume and pee up walls the dog will know you are human is a bit irresponsible, sensationalist and ridicules other experts opionions.
When we first get a dog we walk through the door first, set certain boundaries such as where the dog is allowed to go and what furniture, if any is acceptable to jump up on, no nipping or aggreesive behaviour towards people or other dogs etc. The most important IMHO is no bothering people when they are eating and we eat first or at least at the same time. This one rule never changes as I believe dogs are food driven by nature.
As the dog learns the rules we increase the privilages the dog is alowed to have more priviliges such as allowed on furniture and access to the whole house. If they start to try to reassert their dominance over us such as the teenage phase we go back to the begining and start over.
I think another good example of being a "pack leader" is evident when a secondary member of the household will take the dog for a walk and a well behaved dog will pull and do everything they won't normally do with their primary handler.
Sorry for the long post
Guest- Guest
Re: The Alpha Myth
jstaff wrote: Publishing an article that asserts the pack leader theory is worthless because even if you dress in a Scooby Doo costume and pee up walls the dog will know you are human is a bit irresponsible, sensationalist and ridicules other experts opionions.
When we first get a dog we walk through the door first, set certain boundaries such as where the dog is allowed to go and what furniture, if any is acceptable to jump up on, no nipping or aggreesive behaviour towards people or other dogs etc. The most important IMHO is no bothering people when they are eating and we eat first or at least at the same time. This one rule never changes as I believe dogs are food driven by nature.
You see, this is where I disagree - I accept that the article shouldn't ridicule other opinions (ie dressing up as scooby doo!), but it's just trying to illustrate how silly it is to think we can be 'Alpha' ie, pack leader without being a dog! Walking through a door first will mean absolutely nothing to a dog. You can train it not to barge past, or to wait until you tell it to go, but going through first, or eating first teaches the dog nothing!
It's all a matter of training - teaching your dog what is acceptable & what isn't. You don't need to be all powerful, just to be respected. That can be acheived through training, kindness & firmness.
Oh, and although in the wild dogs are food driven, that isn't always the case with domestic dogs.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Alpha Myth
The terms alpha and pack leader have certain meanings associated with them that is the central cause of the debate IMHO. To me being an "alpha" simply means that your dog knows you are the one that sets the rules and is in charge at all times. I think most of the disagreement is simply a use of certain words to describe a method of training.
Although I do believe that eating first does teach a dog a certain heirarchy. You don't have to have them watch you eat before feeding you but they should not try to snatch food away from you. Not all domestic dogs are food driven but most of all the ones I have been exposed to are.
Strict rules at first so your dog will know the boundaries and then gradually introducing more privligaes once you have bonded and they are behaving to me is the best method. This is easier then letting them have a run of the house and then trying to enforce the rules.
I agree with the training aspect and don't at all believe in negative reinforcement espically physical corrections. A dog should never listen out of fear because you are asking for trouble. In my opinion it's gaining the respect and trust of the dog in phases. I think this is added by enforcing strict rules at first and then easing off when the behaviour is warrented. If the behaviour regresses than it's back to basics.
Although I do believe that eating first does teach a dog a certain heirarchy. You don't have to have them watch you eat before feeding you but they should not try to snatch food away from you. Not all domestic dogs are food driven but most of all the ones I have been exposed to are.
Strict rules at first so your dog will know the boundaries and then gradually introducing more privligaes once you have bonded and they are behaving to me is the best method. This is easier then letting them have a run of the house and then trying to enforce the rules.
I agree with the training aspect and don't at all believe in negative reinforcement espically physical corrections. A dog should never listen out of fear because you are asking for trouble. In my opinion it's gaining the respect and trust of the dog in phases. I think this is added by enforcing strict rules at first and then easing off when the behaviour is warrented. If the behaviour regresses than it's back to basics.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Alpha Myth
jstaff wrote:The terms alpha and pack leader have certain meanings associated with them that is the central cause of the debate IMHO. To me being an "alpha" simply means that your dog knows you are the one that sets the rules and is in charge at all times. I think most of the disagreement is simply a use of certain words to describe a method of training.
Although I do believe that eating first does teach a dog a certain heirarchy. You don't have to have them watch you eat before feeding you but they should not try to snatch food away from you. Not all domestic dogs are food driven but most of all the ones I have been exposed to are.
But you see I don't think eating first or going through doors first makes any difference at all! By all means stop a dog from staring at you while you eat, or barging through doors, but that can all be acheived by training - eating first or going through firsy doesn't make any difference! In fact if you feed your dog first, he'll be stuffed full & will be less likely to stare at you while you eat!
I do agree with the rest of what you say, though!
Guest- Guest
Re: The Alpha Myth
Good topic
Im with this - walking through doors and eating first dont really come into it when your dog knows that you are leader and when thats established then any little problems can be sorted quickly . Each dog is treated differently as they are all individual but they know we are different and they approach us differently
Im with this - walking through doors and eating first dont really come into it when your dog knows that you are leader and when thats established then any little problems can be sorted quickly . Each dog is treated differently as they are all individual but they know we are different and they approach us differently
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Re: The Alpha Myth
This article is by the man who started it all off - and now admits he was wrong...
http://www.4pawsu.com/alphawolf.pdf
http://www.4pawsu.com/alphawolf.pdf
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Re: The Alpha Myth
I personaly prefer to think of myself as being the pack leader, i think it makes training a lot easier. If we mother the dogs like babies andlet them do as they please we set ourselves up for heartache and headaches. The dogs will run ild and start ruling the household. So for me being the pack leader means being the one in control, the one setting the rules and the one doing the training.
I suppose old habits die hard, but why change something that has been working for hundreds of years? if refering to yourself as the alpha works then what is the harm?
I suppose old habits die hard, but why change something that has been working for hundreds of years? if refering to yourself as the alpha works then what is the harm?
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Re: The Alpha Myth
But the idea of being 'pack leader' or 'alpha' is a recent thing. By all means train & accept no bad behaviour, but the idea of being a pack leader is ridiculous - we're not dogs & they know it.
As said in the link above, the guy who actually coined the phrase now admits he got it wrong.
Training is a totally different thing & doesn't necessarily include walking through doors first or eating first or sitting on a sofa first.
As said in the link above, the guy who actually coined the phrase now admits he got it wrong.
Training is a totally different thing & doesn't necessarily include walking through doors first or eating first or sitting on a sofa first.
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