Injections or Not ?

This might be a bit of a controversial topic but what is peoples views on here about the arguement for not giving dogs the immunisation injections , i have read various papers on the subject and to be honest both sides seem to give reasoned views , is it dangerous to have them done ? Is it just the boosters which are the cause for concern ? To be honest i will probably have them done as i think the pros outweigh the cons.

I would ALWAYS immunise, but then I didnt realise there was an argument AGAINST immunisation??

IMO I'd definitely get them done then the first booster, then every 3 years. I'd say it's boosters that the controversy is about not so much their initial injections, I just couldn't forgive myself if something happened to her and I could have prevented it

I would always get the puppy vaccinations and the first annual booster done. After that, it's every three years for the core vaccines, and annually for Leptospirosis.

Rocky had his boosters the first year they were needed then after that he only has the Lepto jab each year. Speak to your vet if you are at all concerned.

Yes , my thoughts exactly , it seems the boosters are causing the concern , some argue that the vets are cashing in on something which isnt really needed every 12 months , personally i cant see any vet worth his salt endangering animals for cash gain , or am i being naive ?

Naïve, I'm afraid. 

A good vet won't, but there are quite a few money grabbers out there as well!

Sadly yes there are some out there that are in it for the money

definitely a hot topic, i'm one of the few on here who doesn't give vax but in the end it's up to you

Hi Ella ,
I would be interested to hear your reasons not to vax.

they need the 8 and 10 weeks Injections but i dont bother with the boosters

Neil. wrote:Hi Ella ,
I would be interested to hear your reasons not to vax.

because i do not believe in vax for people or dogs. I am all for allowing them to build upon the natural immunity that comes from the pups mum, and the side effects that could happen especially auto immune disease and cancer at the point of injection are just not worth it. Also i will not inject my dogs with very harmful chemicals like formaldehyde which is in vax

IMO pup need the 8 and 10 weeks injections full stop!! but life long jab i'm not sure

as i said steve at the end of the day you choose what you want to give your dog and how often

Yes , cancer at the injection site is a real worry , i think personally im going to go with the initial injections and then play the rest by ear , repeated injections every 12 months isnt needed , although most pet insurers insist on it to validate the policy dont they ?

could you live with your self if you bought an dog home an die from an bug that you could of help s/he fight against it byt giving s/he the 8 and 10 weeks injections?

I left it to 3 years from advise here, but after 3 years they wouldn't do a booster but started the vacs from scratch so she had two sets of jabs.....I will now give her the booster annually as I would never forgive myself if something happened that I could have controlled.

I trust my vets very much and its up to you Xx

Neil. wrote:Yes , cancer at the injection site is a real worry , i think personally im going to go with the initial injections and then play the rest by ear , repeated injections every 12 months isnt needed , although most pet insurers insist on it to validate the policy dont they ?

nope most insurances state that you will still have insurance but you won't be covered for anything your dog catches which could have been prevented by a vax

Steve wrote:could you live with your self if you bought an dog home an die from an bug that you could of help s/he fight against it  byt giving s/he the 8 and 10 weeks injections?

yes because i would give them very best start to life and ability to fight of whatever, i couldn't live with myself if i gave my dog an unnecessary injection that caused severe cancer or auto immune diseases or anything else, when i know full well they didn't need the vax in the first place

This is interesting, thank you for this! I will have to do some research with regards to annual boosters. Very interested to hear more views on this.

All i would suggest is not believe what your vet tells you as gospel, of course ask them but do your own research and do what ever you are happy with doing or not doing

Personally, I vaccinate Biscuit. But I also work in a kennels that often has life threatening illnesses such as parvo flying around and I just couldn't risk it with her, especially when we weren't sure if her cancer had spread and her immune system was already compromised. But there are many very strong arguments against, as presented here, that I would agree with also.

Some people argue that the illnesses that the vax's guard againt are very rarely contracted these days and so the vax's are not needed but surely the reason for the rareness is because of the effect if the vacinations over the years , isnt it ?

ella wrote:
yes because i would give them very best start to life and ability to fight of whatever, i couldn't live with myself if i gave my dog an unnecessary injection that caused severe cancer or auto immune diseases or anything else, when i know full well they didn't need the vax in the first place

If it hadn't been for the distemper vaccine, thousands of dogs would still be dying today of distemper. No amount of natural remedies were ever good enough to cure it. Yes, some dogs do react badly to vaccines, but it is a rarity, not an automatic reaction. Yes, vaccines were given far too often, but that has now been reduced to every three years (or you can pay for titre testing to measure the level of immunity your dog has against each of the core diseases) with certain vaccines being given annually (ie leptospirosis) depending on the area you live in/intend to visit.

Neil. wrote:Some people argue that the illnesses that the vax's guard againt are very rarely contracted these days and so the vax's are not needed but surely the reason for the rareness is because of the effect if the vacinations over the years , isnt it ?

That's exactly it - the vaccinations reduced the incidence of the core diseases drastically. Over vaccination is very bad, I agree with that, but a certain amount of immunity is needed to prevent serious illnesses that even a high level of health cannot prevent.

Neil. wrote:Some people argue that the illnesses that the vax's guard againt are very rarely contracted these days and so the vax's are not needed but surely the reason for the rareness is because of the effect if the vacinations over the years , isnt it ?

That is my opinion too, Neil. So I vaccinate. I have stressed out about the yearly boosters after 1 year old, because after all we as humans don't get yearly boosters. But as Janey points out above if you miss a year's booster many vets (like my own) will start again with the full course. So I'm vaxing every year.

It's a personal decision for everyone.

Lynda wrote:  I have stressed out about the yearly boosters after 1 year old, because after all we as humans don't get yearly boosters.  But as Janey points out above if you miss a year's booster many vets (like my own) will start again with the full course.  So I'm vaxing every year.

It's a personal decision for everyone.

That, I'm afraid, is either a vet after more money, or a vet who is not up to date with the latest developements. Either way, I would consider changing vets.

Caryll wrote:

ella wrote:
yes because i would give them very best start to life and ability to fight of whatever, i couldn't live with myself if i gave my dog an unnecessary injection that caused severe cancer or auto immune diseases or anything else, when i know full well they didn't need the vax in the first place

If it hadn't been for the distemper vaccine, thousands of dogs would still be dying today of distemper. No amount of natural remedies were ever good enough to cure it. Yes, some dogs do react badly to vaccines, but it is a rarity, not an automatic reaction. Yes, vaccines were given far too often, but that has now been reduced to every three years (or you can pay for titre testing to measure the level of immunity your dog has against each of the core diseases) with certain vaccines being given annually (ie leptospirosis) depending on the area you live in/intend to visit.

Neil. wrote:Some people argue that the illnesses that the vax's guard againt are very rarely contracted these days and so the vax's are not needed but surely the reason for the rareness is because of the effect if the vacinations over the years , isnt it ?

That's exactly it - the vaccinations reduced the incidence of the core diseases drastically. Over vaccination is very bad, I agree with that, but a certain amount of immunity is needed to prevent serious illnesses that even a high level of health cannot prevent.

caryll hun i'm not going over this again you could say it until your blue in the face i still won't vaccinate.

But you vaccinated Harvey?

I just don't know how you can say that natural remedies can control/prevent a disease like distemper. They never have before - it was only a controlled vaccination drive that got it under control to a point where it is now rare.

Caryll wrote:But you vaccinated Harvey?

I just don't know how you can say that natural remedies can control/prevent a disease like distemper. They never have before - it was only a controlled vaccination drive that got it under control to a point where it is now rare.

he had his puppy jabs yes before i really looked into it he's had none since, he was also a spur of the moment buy.

I've never said its to do with natural remedies it's natural IMMUNITY big big difference.

No. Natural immunity won't protect against distemper, neither will it protect against parvovirus and hepatitis.

But it's the larger aspect. It isn't just your dog - it's every other dog as well. If your dog caught distemper he would be putting every other dog he comes into contact with at risk.

I understand anybody not vaccinating after the 1st annual booster, but the puppy vaccines & 1st booster are a must, and this forum should be seen to be promoting that.

Caryll wrote:No. Natural immunity won't protect against distemper, neither will it protect against parvovirus and hepatitis.

But it's the larger aspect. It isn't just your dog - it's every other dog as well. If your dog caught distemper he would be putting every other dog he comes into contact with at risk.

I understand anybody not vaccinating after the 1st annual booster, but the puppy vaccines & 1st booster are a must, and this forum should be seen to be promoting that.

Caryll yes it can and does every single day, I'm part of a HUGE anti/non vax group and guess what all happy healthy dogs.

Well if you believe in vacs so much you wouldn't fear non vac'd dogs.....

Well the forum can but i will not promote something i do not believe in hence i always say do your own research and come to your own conclusions

And ignore the advice of the world vets?

Yes, I've researched, but nothing so far has convinced me that vaccinations are not necessary. I acceept that we should not over vaccinate, but vaccinations are a must. That's what has controlled the terrible diseases that used to kill thousands of dogs (and cats) in this country & throughout the world, not natural immunity.

if you read back in the thread I said speak to the vets.

You believe what you want Caryll it sharn't change my mind, and lets not take over another vaccination thread ey? we both know we aren't going to agree ever on this subject

ella wrote:if you read back in the thread I said speak to the vets.

But if you speak to the vets they will advise vaccination.

But as you say, we won't agree! 

Caryll wrote:

ella wrote:if you read back in the thread I said speak to the vets.

But if you speak to the vets they will advise vaccination.

But as you say, we won't agree! 

yes i know i'm not forcing my view on anyone hence I was saying ask anyone and every and read everything to get the broadest view

That's the great thing about a forum like this - everyone can put forward their opinions/experiences/results of research etc. and we can all learn from one another and come to our own informed decisions.

Personally I do whatever the vet recommends , if we over vaccinate then I would rather be in this situation than under vaccinate , I don't trusty myself to schedule the vaccs so trust my vet to do it for me

Is there a percentage stat on the number of dogs who react badly to vaccinations against dogs who don't ? Im assuming it would be very very small.

I don't know the exact percentages, but they are small. The worse reactions are actually with the Leptospirosis jab, but that isn't a core vaccine. It's still important, though, especially if you live near water courses or in an area with a known rat problem.

Because of where I live my vet recommends the core vaccines evry 3 years, but the Lepto one annually as Northampton has a lot of water in & around it!

Well , ive booked Roxi in for her course of injections , i have thought very hard about this and read all i could and spoke to various breeders and of course the people on here , to be honest there are more people who condone vaccinations than dont but not as much of a landslide as you would think , my decision came down simply because i couldnt live with myself if Roxi came to harm with something i could have possibly prevented.

ella wrote:definitely a hot topic, i'm one of the few on here who doesn't give vax but in the end it's up to you

I'm same. I only have parvo one when it was found in my town.

Hi everyone I was recently looking into finding a dog hotel for sasha as we are thinking of going away for a couple of days next year and they except to see upto yearly immunisation records, my vet also recommends yearly boosters. Surely a vet being a professional would not advocate giving a dog something that they don't neef ????

janfrost489 wrote:Hi everyone I was recently looking into finding a dog hotel for sasha as we are thinking of going away for a couple of days next year and they except to see upto yearly immunisation records, my vet also recommends yearly boosters. Surely a vet being a professional would not advocate giving a dog something that they don't neef ????

It is recommended now to give dogs vaccinations every 3 years bar lepto which depends on your area but some vets refuse to go along with this, or just don't know about the new recommended schedule

So where does that leave the boarding issue ???

Yes, if your vet thinks that the core vaccines should be yearly then change vets because he isn't keeping up to date with developments!

Regardless of personal preferences related to whether or not to vaccinate, most vets who keep up to date with procedures and animal health will recommend vaccines every three years, rather than annually.

I will mention this to them when sasha is due in 6 months time and then see what they say

Boarding kennels should also be up to date with current guidelines.

I will only be using a doggy hotel as a last resort im hoping to get a friend to look after her for us

Thistle had an allergic reaction to her first jabs, very scary, I have always had my dogs vaccinated as puppies but never bothered with the boosters at all, never had a problem, I had a collie that had never been vaccinated he came into contact with a puppy that had distemper, the collie displayed mild symptoms but recovered, they have to be up to date with their vacs if you are going to kennel them. Thistle has had one thing after another since her vaccinations......coincidence? she has demodex at the moment which can be as a result of a weak or suppressed immune system.