I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy

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karmadog
niff
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I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy Empty I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy

Post by HazelJ Sat Jan 22 2011, 00:44

I am part of a Staffy page of fb and there is a discussion asking people if they prefer American or English staffies and this is what someone called Julie English just posted There is no such thing as an English staffy. I posted Oh really funny that my dogs Vet must not know anything then.

Bugger me i thought there were English staffies, now i know there's not.
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Post by janey Sat Jan 22 2011, 00:50

Not very good at geagraphy............sorry Big Grin
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Post by HazelJ Sat Jan 22 2011, 00:56

Janey wrote:Not very good at geagraphy............sorry Big Grin
Me either but even i know Stafforshire is in England, guess i shoud just say staffordshire from now on lol.
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Post by gem Sat Jan 22 2011, 10:25

I think I no the site your on about some people think they no everything and no nothing Rolling Eyes
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Post by scott Sat Jan 22 2011, 10:32

their is only one sbt.....
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Post by Guest Sat Jan 22 2011, 10:51

Well, there's only 1 staffordshire bull terrier, originating from England. The american staffs, however, do seem to be a bit dofferent to the ones in the UK, but I think sometimes it's just how they're presented for the show ring. American show people love to trim every last stray hair from their staffs, whereas here (unless it has changed over the last few years) we only really trim the tail.

You could say, in fact, that all staffies, the world over, are English Staffies!

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Post by Steveb Sat Jan 22 2011, 15:27

They could have been referring to the whether people prefer Staffordshire Bull Terriers or American Staffordshire Terriers. Two different breeds although closely related.

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Post by Stevie b Sat Jan 22 2011, 20:01

No way!! ALL those things I've ever read are all wrong! Who would have thought it!!
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Post by Steveb Sat Jan 22 2011, 20:09

Stevie B what things have you read that are wrong?

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Post by jaykay Sat Jan 22 2011, 20:09

thats just crazy where do they think staffordshire is?? staffys aint nothing but all english!!
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Post by Stevie b Sat Jan 22 2011, 20:22

I was takin the pee!! They can come from nowhere else but England!! They are called the STAFFORDSHIRE bull terrier!!
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Post by Steveb Sat Jan 22 2011, 20:23

I know what your saying JayKay but the Amercian Staffordshire Terrier is the Show equivilent of the American Pitbull Terrier (whole new topic). The APBT isn't recognised by the American Kennel Club but the AmStaff is. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is also recognised by the AKC but they are considered two different breeds. Very similar but the Amstaff is a bigger than the average Staffie.

The reference to Staffordshire in the AmStaffs name is made as a reference/tribute the part of England that is widely associated with the dogmen of the past and many famous dogs despite the fact that the dogs were all over the UK Staffordshire is a special place for the original Pit dogs of which Staffordshire Bull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terrier share their ancestory.

Steve posted a good video showing the differences between the two breed:



And as Scott said there is only one Staffordshire BULL Terrier.https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t272-differences-between-staffordshire-bull-terrier-and-american-staffordshire-terriers

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Post by Steveb Sat Jan 22 2011, 20:27

I hear you Stevie B and understand what you mean but there is a separate breed calle American Staffordshire Terrier (with no Bull between Staffordshire and Terrier). It is recognised by the AKC and many other kennel clubs just not here. The main reason for that is that in the UK it is considered the show equivilent of the APBT so it's a no go here with BSL.

I posted above why I think the Americans have Staffordshire in the name. They were once the same breed but as you'd expect the Americans go for bigger is better lol. But we know that's not true Smile


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Post by Stevie b Sat Jan 22 2011, 20:40

yeh im with you there mate,but our staffy is english right??
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Post by markeB Sat Jan 22 2011, 20:46

i think im right as to theres actually no KC recognized Irish Staffies either
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Post by Steveb Sat Jan 22 2011, 20:47

It certainly is and the original.

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Post by Steveb Sat Jan 22 2011, 20:48

Mark B your right - but that's a whole new thread lol

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Post by Stevie b Sat Jan 22 2011, 20:59

lets just say we have the original then!!
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Post by Lisa & Kuta Mon Jan 24 2011, 04:53

I didn't think there was such thing as an 'American Staffordshire Terrier'! I was always under the impression this was another name for the Pit Bull Terrier thinking
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Post by lolalollypop Mon Jan 24 2011, 08:07

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staffordshire_Bull_Terrier


that explians the origins and other breeds such as the american staffordshire terrier hope this helps Smile
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Post by lolalollypop Mon Jan 24 2011, 08:10

scroll down to history it explians how the term bull terrier comes from the fact the dogs were bread to attack bulls to tenderise the meat! also that staffords where imported to the states ..............interesting stuff
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Post by fireball Wed Jan 26 2011, 12:30

markeB wrote:i think im right as to theres actually no KC recognized Irish Staffies either
i`ve been asked a few times is blue an irish staff because of his size........if you contact a breeeder selling irish staffs,more often that not they`ll be pitbulls
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Post by Guest Wed Jan 26 2011, 13:02

They'll either be pits or one of several breeders in ireland who say they are breeding the staff back to its original shape & fitness. There's some dispute about that, though!

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Post by Steveb Wed Jan 26 2011, 16:59

Caryll wrote:They'll either be pits or one of several breeders in ireland who say they are breeding the staff back to its original shape & fitness. There's some dispute about that, though!

I think that's spot on - the only thing i'd add is that some/quite a few of the Irish lines also have some Bull Terrier Blood in them as they were bred to working ability rather than show - therefore pedigrees and conformation to a breed standard weren't high on the list of priorities. Breeding for work rather than show goes back to the fundementals of what Caryll was saying about breeding a original bull and terrier.

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Post by Guest Wed Jan 26 2011, 20:50

On another forum I use (a bully one) there's a guy who has a so-called 'original' type (staffordshire) bull terrier. I put the staffordshire bit in brackets cause the dog doesn't look like either!

It's a rangy, almost whipetty looking dog. Very fit & obviously agile, but nothing at all like either the original bull & terriers or the likes of Gentleman Jim, Crib or Rosa. He says that his dog is the true bull & terrier & nothing else will do.

It's all a matter of opinion.

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Post by Stevie b Wed Jan 26 2011, 21:55

Any pics??
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Post by Guest Wed Jan 26 2011, 22:09

He & I don't see eye to eye on a few things (well, most things, actually!), but if I can get a pic I will.

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Post by Guest Wed Jan 26 2011, 22:37

Here's a couple of pics of so-called old tyme bull & terriers.
I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy IMG_9262
I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy DSCN02621

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Post by niff Thu Jan 27 2011, 00:31

i can assure you that my staffy's are scottish born and bread , lmao although through grandparents they could play for england and ireland Laughing
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Post by Guest Thu Jan 27 2011, 01:24

niff wrote:i can assure you that my staffy's are scottish born and bread , lmao although through grandparents they could play for england and ireland Laughing

rolling on the floor

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Post by niff Thu Jan 27 2011, 15:11

the black/brindle dog above just looks like a lurcher to me ,
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Post by fireball Thu Jan 27 2011, 15:15

niff wrote:i can assure you that my staffy's are scottish born and bread , lmao although through grandparents they could play for england and ireland Laughing
if they`ve drank a glass of guinness they can play for ireland lol
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Post by niff Thu Jan 27 2011, 17:43

pmsl dakota prefers so sneek a lick of the vody and coke sneeky lil russian
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Post by Guest Fri Jan 28 2011, 10:04

niff wrote:the black/brindle dog above just looks like a lurcher to me ,


i agree niff looking at the pic it looks like a pikey holding him to so my guess would be breed for a diff reason if you know what i mean no talking

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Post by Guest Fri Jan 28 2011, 16:02

Agree to me they both look like gorgeous cross breeds! x

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Post by karmadog Fri Jan 28 2011, 16:58

I agree the black dog looks nothing like a proper Staffy, however the below picture does look like how a Bull Terrier looked many years ago - Could very well be a 'proper' bullie just a very badly bred one.

I've had several bullies over the years who really did look like crosses but were just poorly bred and there are a couple of breeders in Wales who purposely breed them like the above photo.

They are supposedly trying to breed bullies as to how they looked 50+ years ago.

My old rescue girl Drama had the 'old style' shaped head - I was convinced she was a cross until I managed to trace her breeder - I was shocked when I found out lol!!

Personally I prefer both Staffies and Bull Terriers as they look today. Big Grin
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Post by haddy Sat Feb 26 2011, 21:53

I personally dont think the first one looks lurcher like to me.
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Post by Guest Sun Feb 27 2011, 01:03

karmadog wrote:I agree the black dog looks nothing like a proper Staffy, however the below picture does look like how a Bull Terrier looked many years ago - Could very well be a 'proper' bullie just a very badly bred one.

I've had several bullies over the years who really did look like crosses but were just poorly bred and there are a couple of breeders in Wales who purposely breed them like the above photo.

They are supposedly trying to breed bullies as to how they looked 50+ years ago.

My old rescue girl Drama had the 'old style' shaped head - I was convinced she was a cross until I managed to trace her breeder - I was shocked when I found out lol!!

Personally I prefer both Staffies and Bull Terriers as they look today. Big Grin

The dogs pictured are, in fact, the result of breeders trying to breed back the old style bull & terrier dogs, not staffords. The people who breed these dogs say that both Staffords & Bullies have been bred too far away from the original bull & terrier.

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Post by HazelJ Sun Feb 27 2011, 01:24

Stevie b wrote:I was takin the pee!! They can come from nowhere else but England!! They are called the STAFFORDSHIRE bull terrier!!

lol that's what i said in the reply. but hey what would i know i'm not an expert unlike the person who posted it.
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Post by HazelJ Sun Feb 27 2011, 01:28

Caryll wrote:On another forum I use (a bully one) there's a guy who has a so-called 'original' type (staffordshire) bull terrier. I put the staffordshire bit in brackets cause the dog doesn't look like either!

It's a rangy, almost whipetty looking dog. Very fit & obviously agile, but nothing at all like either the original bull & terriers or the likes of Gentleman Jim, Crib or Rosa. He says that his dog is the true bull & terrier & nothing else will do.

It's all a matter of opinion.

I think the only Bull is what he's talking. The bottom one looks like what we call a "Pig Dog"- my brother used to have one called Kiff, they are used for hunting pigs here(well duh as if the name didn't say it alll Laughing ).

I will always call mine an English Staffordshire Bull Terrier who was born and bred in Australia but with bloodlines back to the original UK ones. I wonder can i get Harley a dual citizenship passport now Laughing
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Post by niff Sun Feb 27 2011, 09:04

HazelJ wrote:
Caryll wrote:On another forum I use (a bully one) there's a guy who has a so-called 'original' type (staffordshire) bull terrier. I put the staffordshire bit in brackets cause the dog doesn't look like either!

It's a rangy, almost whipetty looking dog. Very fit & obviously agile, but nothing at all like either the original bull & terriers or the likes of Gentleman Jim, Crib or Rosa. He says that his dog is the true bull & terrier & nothing else will do.

It's all a matter of opinion.

I think the only Bull is what he's talking. The bottom one looks like what we call a "Pig Dog"- my brother used to have one called Kiff, they are used for hunting pigs here(well duh as if the name didn't say it alll Laughing ).

I will always call mine an English Staffordshire Bull Terrier who was born and bred in Australia but with bloodlines back to the original UK ones. I wonder can i get Harley a dual citizenship passport now Laughing

you could probs get harley a house ,,,, from the council ,,,,,and some sort of benefit before someone actually born in the uk and entitled to it lol
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I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy Empty Re: I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy

Post by Guest Sun Feb 27 2011, 11:37

HazelJ wrote:
Caryll wrote:On another forum I use (a bully one) there's a guy who has a so-called 'original' type (staffordshire) bull terrier. I put the staffordshire bit in brackets cause the dog doesn't look like either!

It's a rangy, almost whipetty looking dog. Very fit & obviously agile, but nothing at all like either the original bull & terriers or the likes of Gentleman Jim, Crib or Rosa. He says that his dog is the true bull & terrier & nothing else will do.

It's all a matter of opinion.

I think the only Bull is what he's talking. The bottom one looks like what we call a "Pig Dog"- my brother used to have one called Kiff, they are used for hunting pigs here(well duh as if the name didn't say it alll Laughing ).

I absolutely agree & that's exactly what the dog is...........the guy's user name was 'hogdog'. My beef with these dogs is that they are also used for illegal activities - fighting/badger baiting/lamping etc. (I know that lamping is legal in this country under certain circumstances).

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Post by Guest Sun Feb 27 2011, 13:48

niff wrote:
you could probs get harley a house ,,,, from the council ,,,,,and some sort of benefit before someone actually born in the uk and entitled to it lol

Laughing
To be fair Harley would probably make a better neighbour than most of them and the benifits would be less wasted on him Laughing

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Post by niff Sun Feb 27 2011, 17:07

BlueStaffBlue wrote:
niff wrote:
you could probs get harley a house ,,,, from the council ,,,,,and some sort of benefit before someone actually born in the uk and entitled to it lol

Laughing
To be fair Harley would probably make a better neighbour than most of them and the benifits would be less wasted on him Laughing

rofl
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Post by markeB Tue Mar 22 2011, 19:20

Caryll wrote:
karmadog wrote:I agree the black dog looks nothing like a proper Staffy, however the below picture does look like how a Bull Terrier looked many years ago - Could very well be a 'proper' bullie just a very badly bred one.

I've had several bullies over the years who really did look like crosses but were just poorly bred and there are a couple of breeders in Wales who purposely breed them like the above photo.

They are supposedly trying to breed bullies as to how they looked 50+ years ago.

My old rescue girl Drama had the 'old style' shaped head - I was convinced she was a cross until I managed to trace her breeder - I was shocked when I found out lol!!

Personally I prefer both Staffies and Bull Terriers as they look today. Big Grin

The dogs pictured are, in fact, the result of breeders trying to breed back the old style bull & terrier dogs, not staffords. The people who breed these dogs say that both Staffords & Bullies have been bred too far away from the original bull & terrier.
indeed th English bully of old didn't have the deformed head as modern breeders have exaggerated,and i believe the old bulldog of yore looked very much as the bully type staffies do today.lets hope the breeders don't do to the staffy what they've done to the bulldog and bull terrier..
http://hinksoldtymebullterriers.webs.com/

english bull 1905
I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy Bull_Terrier_from_1915


Last edited by markeB on Wed Mar 23 2011, 07:02; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest Tue Mar 22 2011, 21:58

markeB wrote:indeed th English bully of old didn't have the deformed head as modern breeders have exaggerated,and i believe the old bulldog of yore looked very much as the bully type staffies do today.lets hope the breeders don't do to the staffy what they've done to the bulldog and bull terrier..
http://hinksoldtymebullterriers.webs.com/

english bull 1905
I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy Bull_Terrier_from_1915

Here's a pic of Crib & Rosa - the type of Bull Dog used in creating the stafford. To me, they have very little resemblance to the stafford of today. They are undershot, and far less balanced.

I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy Cribrosa

When you say that the head of the Bull Terrier is deformed, are talking about the extremes which are in the breed today, or the Bull Terrier in general?


Last edited by Caryll on Tue Mar 22 2011, 22:23; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest Tue Mar 22 2011, 22:00

Caryll wrote:
markeB wrote:indeed th English bully of old didn't have the deformed head as modern breeders have exaggerated,and i believe the old bulldog of yore looked very much as the bully type staffies do today.lets hope the breeders don't do to the staffy what they've done to the bulldog and bull terrier..
http://hinksoldtymebullterriers.webs.com/

english bull 1905
I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy Bull_Terrier_from_1915

Here's a pic of Crib & Rosa - the type of Bull Dog used in creating the stafford. To me, they have very little resemblance to the stafford of today. They are undershot, and far less balanced.
I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy Cribrosa

When you say that the head of the Bull Terrier is deformed, are talking about the extremes which are in the breed today, or the Bull Terrier in general?


Dempsey has a gorgeous head + gorgeous ickle face Love Struck Love Struck Love Struck Love Struck

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Post by Guest Tue Mar 22 2011, 22:09

Thank you Tracey!

Can you see the pic of Crib & Rosa? It doesn't seem to be loading on my computer!

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Post by Karen and Max Tue Mar 22 2011, 23:55

I'm originally from Staffordshire and I'm definately English! I thought the American ones originated from our show dogs. Like someone said the bigger the better for the Americans!
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Post by markeB Wed Mar 23 2011, 07:04

orginal english bull 1905
I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy Bull_Terrier_from_1915
crib and rosa early bulldogs from wayyyyyyy back
I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy CribandRosa1811
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