Advice needed please :(

by bailey89 Mon Sep 19 2011, 11:03

Hi im new to this forum ive joined because i really need some advice about my staffie, he is a 2 year old rescue who we've had since he was 6 months. today while out in the park he attacked a small puppy and would not stop, the owner was kicking him and he kept letting go then going back at the puppy, he wouldn't listen to me, it was almost as if he was in some sort of trance, he has never attacked another dog before and has always been really friendly, the man had a small child with him in a buggy and all i can keep thinking about is what if he had turned on her. i myself have two young children and am now having serious doubts as to whether he is safe to have around them, if he can turn so violently against something so small and defenceless as a puppy whos to say my child won't be next?! im not the sort of person to give up on my dogs but i already have another rescue who doesn't get on with other dogs (although he has never bitten another dog) and the thought of being faced with another is just too much. please if someone could give me some advice on what to do id really appreciate it!!! Sad

by **johneva** Mon Sep 19 2011, 11:25

Best thing in a situation like this is seek professional advise really. You also need to try and find out as much as possiable about his history if the rescue know anything about his history.

Dont be scared of socialising your dog though, worst thing you can do in my opinion in cases like this is to avoid contact with others, hiding him away will never fix the problem. You need to give him plenty of posative experiances of dogs and people in a controlled manner (With professional help preferabley).

If somehting like this has happened you need to make sure he is always on a lead, even if you want to give him a little freedom make sure he is on a long lead and you are aware of your surrondings.

You will need to keep a keen eye on his warning signs such as stance, ear position, hackles up ect ect. Normally plenty of warning signs of when a dog is not happy about the position its in and you will need to learn to read these.

Dont panic at the fact it was a puppy, infact in once sence thats a good thing it could have actually been the puppys behaviour which made your dog feel so uncomfertable in felt the need to attack. Unfortunaly kicking a dog is pretty much one of the worst things you can do when a dog is in attack mode as it likely to just wind it up more and it will attack with even more determination an may even attack the person kicking it.

Here is part of an article on how to sperate a dog fight safely, you can read more on his site about this topic, although I dont agree with all his methods with dog traing ect his method of seperating a dog fight is good. It even tells you how you can do it if your on your own further down the article.

The safest way to break up a dogfight requires 2 people. Each person grabs the back feet of one of the dogs. The dog back feet are then picked up like a wheelbarrow. With the legs up, both dogs are then pulled apart.

Once the dog fight is broken up and the dogs pulled apart it is critical that the people do not release the dogs or the dog fight will begin again. The two people need to start turning in a circle, or slowly swinging the dogs in a circle while they back away from the other dog. This stops the dog from curling and coming back and biting the person holding their legs.

By circling the dog has to sidestep with its front feet or it will fall on its chin. As long as you slowly continue to back and circle, the dog cannot do any damage to you. To insure that the fight will not begin all over again when you release the dogs, one of the dogs needs to be dragged into an enclosure (i.e. a kennel, the garage, another room) before the dog is released. If you do not do this, the dogs will often charge back and start fighting again or if you release the dog to quickly the dog will turn and attack the person who had his feet.

Dog fights are a very dangerous thing to try and break up alone. You should never rush in and try and grab the dogs to pull them apart. They are in high "fight drive" and are not thinking clearly when fighting. If someone grabs them they will bite without even thinking about who or what they are biting. This is how your loving pet can dog bite the living crap out of you in about a second and a half.

In reality it probably doesn't even know it's biting you. I compare it to a bar fight. If a person comes up behind 2 guys fighting and just reaches out and grabs the shoulder of one of the combatants most of the time the fighter is going to turn and throw a punch without even looking at who or what he is hitting. This is because his adrenaline in pumping and he is in "fight drive".

Source - http://leerburg.com/dogfight.htm

by bailey89 Mon Sep 19 2011, 11:31

thankyou for your advice, im just so frightened now that he will turn on one of my children, i have a six week old baby at home and i just really don't feel comfortable with him being around them if he can turn so quickly on another dog...

when we got him he had already had two homes one of which he had been attacked by a rottie, but like i said he has never shown any sort of aggression before.

by **johneva** Mon Sep 19 2011, 11:43

bailey89 wrote:thankyou for your advice, im just so frightened now that he will turn on one of my children, i have a six week old baby at home and i just really don't feel comfortable with him being around them if he can turn so quickly on another dog...

when we got him he had already had two homes one of which he had been attacked by a rottie, but like i said he has never shown any sort of aggression before.

I have added some further info in my first post, but to reply to your responce I here what your saying but unfortunaly thats the way dogs are. Whatever triggered the behaviour is what you need to findout and fix, just because your dog got into a dog fight dose not mean it will attack humans though.

You already stated he has been attacked by a dog before so is obviously insecure and not sure how to behave with other dogs. Something you will have to try and change with good training.

As for your child only thing I can suggest is the same as I would with any dog. Never ever leave dog and child together unattended. If it makes you feel more comferable keep you dog lead on to start with so you have better control.

My advise is simpley training traing and more training. This will make him more obidient aswell as will gain you more respect in his eyes. You will need to work very hard to get him to behave as you want him to and times where aggression is an issue its often best to seek professional help. He has shown no signs of aggression to humans yet so I would not get to worked up about it, just be very vigilant and work hard with training and gaing more respect from your dog.

He should never feel the need to attack a dog as he should respect you so much he knows if need be you will resolve the issue and he does not need to ever attack anything as you will protect him.

by four leaf clover Mon Sep 19 2011, 11:59

What an awful experience for both parties.

When I was a teenager, my loving, friendly (if not a bit cheeky) golden retriever attacked a small yorkshire terrier. She exibited exactly the same behavour as you described above and I was only able to seperate them once the terrier was laid still on the ground and my dog had let go. I was only about 14 at the time and was terrified! She had always been fine with other dogs and never repeated the incident as long as she lived. I still owned her by the time Id moved out and had my first daughter and she was very sweet and gentle with her.

I wonder if the puppy was behaving in a way that would have provoked him? I suppose you will never really know. I think that John has given you some excellent advice above. I hope that things go well.

by **janey** Mon Sep 19 2011, 12:29

Great advice, I haven't experienced it myself so can't add anything. Welcome to the forum Smile

I wish it was on a happier note Xx

by Guest Mon Sep 19 2011, 12:29

If he has been attacked before he will feel insecure and can act defensively if he feels threatened. If you don't have alot of experience with training professional help would be advisable. The breed is notoriously good with children and is nicknamed the "nanny dog" That being said you should not leave small children alone and unsupervised with any large breed of dog.

I wouldn't stop trying to socialize him but you should become familiar with body language and try to aviod dogs that are not properly trained.

by **Kathy** Mon Sep 19 2011, 13:06

We had an incident with Rocky and a small puppy. Similar sort of thing. Didn't understand the cause until a month or so later, when we met the puppy again. This time we noticed the puppy staring at Rocky which made him growl.
If you get in this situation, cover your dogs eyes with your hands or anything, just break eye contact.

by bailey89 Mon Sep 19 2011, 14:29

thankyou all for your comments and advice, i have read them all carefully and it makes me feel much better that there are other people who have had the same experiences, i was in a bit of a state this morning when i posted the thread, now i have had time to think about things a bit more carefully and calm down. i was around the corner so didn't see what happened before my dog attacked the puppy, it was on a lead and the man had a small child maybe Reo could sense that the man was anxious...for some reason hes always had a thing about other dogs on leads, hes too curious, never aggressive though just running round and round them, almost like hes trying to round them up so maybe he was doing that and the other owner got a bit agitated. I wish i could go back in time and walk the other way tbh dont tell anyone

Im quite good with spotting the warning signs, my other dog is a french mastiff, i can always tell when hes about to 'start' because he holds himself very high, ears up tail erect and very focused....with him i try to distract him with a treat or turning in the opposite direction, sometimes even just sitting him down while the other dog goes past works.
I feel sad now because i know for future walks hes going to have to be muzzled as he potentially could have killed the dog and taken a chunk out of the child in all the commotion and i can't risk that again....he loves playing with his ball and stick and to think he won't be able to do that anymore makes me feel really upset. Also the looks you get when walking a muzzled dog....i hate, people look at you as if your dirt, now im going to have two dogs which are muzzled unsure

(i already muzzle my other dog as at 9 stone if he ever tried to attack a dog there wouldn't be much hope of me getting him off)

by **johneva** Mon Sep 19 2011, 15:30

Why would you need to Muzzle them?

If you simpley walk them on a lead till you can trust them to walk by your side. Why was your dog off lead and out of your sight??? If you dont have control of your dog and fully trust your dog to do as you say it should not be off a lead in public.

Big problem with a muzzle is what is someone elses dog is off lead and attacks yours? Would you step in and fend off this other dog before it got to your? If not how would your dog defend its self?

We only ever let our dogs off lead in large grassed areas where we can see our surroundings and we expect our dogs to be reasonably close at all times even off lead. We would never allow our dogs off lead and out of our sight as anything could happen.

i already muzzle my other dog as at 9 stone if he ever tried to attack a dog there wouldn't be much hope of me getting him off

Why would you get a dog you are not confident of controlling? So you have a dog you know if it did ever attack you would be unable to do anything about? Seems absolute madness to me sorry.

by bailey89 Mon Sep 19 2011, 16:00

both my dogs are rescue dogs, the mastiff came with problems but once you take them on you have to deal with it and i wasn't going to return him, we weren't told of his problems and to be honest the only people who i think knew were his previous owners which was probably the reason he was handed in...hes great with the family and people he knows infact hes the best family dog ive had, but as soon as we got him he didn't like strangers or other dogs, spoke to behaviourists, the welfare i got him from, vets, got him castrated, did different training techniques nothing worked, eventually decided the safest bet would be to muzzle him, he is never off lead but so that if another dog did run up to him while he was on lead and IF he went for it then no harm would be done as i dont want the responsibility of him injuring another dog when it could have been easily prevented. And im sorry but as with any breed of medium size and up even smaller breeds if they decided to attack another dog it would be difficult to separate them, even the most trustworthy dog can just turn as i have learnt today...my staffie has been training to be a PAT dog, thats how reliable and trustworthy hes always been, he listened to every command and obeyed. today something changed and it has shown me alot of things, whether he was provoked or not it has shown me that however much training and effort you put into a dog anything can happen in a split second. At the park i go to there is a small bridge that leads into another part of the park, he had run over the bridge and round the corner, was out of my sight for no more than 10 seconds and it happened, i didn't call him back as i never expected what happened to happen in such a short space of time.

by Guest Mon Sep 19 2011, 16:16

Dog Agression and Dog Sensitivity is common in Staffords. It often does not develop until as late as 2 years. Your boy may be DA/DS, which is ok. He doesn't need to be around other dogs to be happy.

by **Steve** Mon Sep 19 2011, 16:37

I would jusy keep your dog on the lead & if another dog come upto you warn the owner.

by **Steve** Mon Sep 19 2011, 16:51

johneva wrote:
i already muzzle my other dog as at 9 stone if he ever tried to attack a dog there wouldn't be much hope of me getting him off
Why would you get a dog you are not confident of controlling? So you have a dog you know if it did ever attack you would be unable to do anything about? Seems absolute madness to me sorry.

Agree with joneva here if you cant controlling your dogs you shouldn't be walking them in public.

by bailey89 Mon Sep 19 2011, 20:30

Steve wrote:
johneva wrote:
i already muzzle my other dog as at 9 stone if he ever tried to attack a dog there wouldn't be much hope of me getting him off
Why would you get a dog you are not confident of controlling? So you have a dog you know if it did ever attack you would be unable to do anything about? Seems absolute madness to me sorry.

Agree with joneva here if you cant controlling your dogs you shouldn't be walking them in public.

if i could have predicted what would have happened i wouldn't have had him off lead...

as with regards to walking my dog in public, put yourself in my position you take on a rescue he turns out uncomfortable in other dogs company and around strangers, are you telling me you would have him pts? what am i meant to do not walk him at all? what sort of life would that be for him? or is it kinder and safer to walk him on lead but muzzled so the possibilty of him biting another dog is taken out of the picture. yes i can control him by making him sit and stay when another dog goes past but not all owners dogs come back to their owners when called, so i believe its safer to have him muzzled.

with regards to what happened today i was just like you my dog has always been well looked after, loved and very obedient. how was i to foresee what was going to happen when there had never been any warning signs.

by bailey89 Mon Sep 19 2011, 20:39

and with regards to my quote above i didn't word it very well, what i meant is that as he is a larger dog it would be more difficult for me to manage, i have heard of people having trouble separating two jack russells when they get into a scrap so why would i put myself in the position of maybe having to deal with that when i can prevent it entirely?!

by **Steve** Mon Sep 19 2011, 20:43

Me if i was struggling to control my dogs i would never take them all out together without someone who could control the other dog,

I would never put a muzzle on any of my dog becasue of other dogs, if i saw another dog coming towards me i would shout to the owner & if the dog still come it's not my fault and you probably could get the other owned in trouble for not controling their dogs.

Dogs dont just turn DA, either like other dogs or dont and if they dont you can see by their body language.

by bailey89 Mon Sep 19 2011, 20:50

well i suppose we have different opinions, i think its better to be safe than sorry and it works for me, but each to their own.

i don't walk them together i walk my mastiff at night and my staffie during the day, ive always walked them separately as i didn't want my staffie to pick up 'bad habits' so to speak. thinking back i think something must have spooked him thats the only conclusion i can come to, hes definitely not DA, i took him to a dog show the other day and he was brilliantly behaved.

by bailey89 Mon Sep 19 2011, 20:56

Steve wrote:

I would never put a muzzle on any of my dog becasue of other dogs, if i saw another dog coming towards me i would shout to the owner & if the dog still come it's not my fault and you probably could get the other owned in trouble for not controling their dogs..

in the eyes of the law even if i had my dog on the lead and it bit another dog it would still be my problem as i should have had it muzzled.

by Sponsored content

Advice needed please :(

Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(

Re: Advice needed please :(