Buying A New Pup

Hi,

i'm curious to know if there really is much of a problem with buying a puppy that has no papers etc ?

the obvious difference being the price ! but is there anything else i should be aware of when making a choice ?

What exactly is the point of papers ? is it just to validate there is no cross breeding etc ?

Sorry if i sound very nieve but i wanna be sure of all aspects of buying a pup before i commit to something so important

Thanks

here a few link may help you.

http://staffy-bull-terrier.co.uk/guidelineforbuying.html
http://staffy-bull-terrier.co.uk/basicsfornewpuppyowners.html
http://staffy-bull-terrier.co.uk/protectingyourhomeandpuppies.html

Thanks, Appreciate Your Help !

that what we here for. can i ask where are you from?

Chichester, West Sussex

this could help you then

http://staffy-bull-terrier.co.uk/breedclubcontacts.html

Only way of knowing that you have a full sbt is if you have a reg dog and more importantly a dog that's had health tests!

x

A staffy with no papers is just as lovely as Staffy with papers!

I agree, BUT..........there are several hereditary problems with staffords nowadays, and unless the parents have been tested (and if they're unregistered they probably haven't) then how do you know that you're not buying a dog with those problems?

owners of puppies are often misled by sellers with such ruses as, leading the owner to believe his dog is something special. the term pedigree papers is quiet different from the term registration papers. a pedigree is nothing more than a statement made by the breeder of the dog, and is written on special pedigree blanks which are readily available from any pet shop or breeders club. hope this helps you xxxsecurity

Thanks all, i have been to see a breeder who has all documents for a puppy she is selling and really seems to know her stuff so im happy to pay the extra for the sake of me and the puppy :-)
All documents are printed not handwritten so im happy this is all genuine.

good luck with your new puppy, paying that little extra will be worth it in the long run

well tbh i work with a breeder of sbt's and was suprised by the amount of wheeler dealing and jigery pokery that goes on with ped papers etc ..there are many sbts with dodgy papers ie a person has a dog with out papers then buys papers of a breeder thus putting a few hundred quid on price of said pups .the breeder when they have a litter reg a few more pup in litter ie has a litter of 5 registers 6 or 7 then sells spare papers .ive had this from a breeder i work with .the main thing is that your happy with your dog also there are many sbt's in shelters pups/juveniles/fullgrown all crying/dieing for good homes,and remember for every sbt pup bought from breeder thats another given the jab of death just or being an sbt..

i also have had dealing with breeders but iv never heard of this happening but i suppose there might be people doing this

markeB wrote:well tbh i work with a breeder of sbt's and was suprised by the amount of wheeler dealing and jigery pokery that goes on with ped papers etc ..there are many sbts with dodgy papers ie a person has a dog with out papers then buys papers of a breeder thus putting a few hundred quid on price of said pups .the breeder when they have a litter reg a few more pup in litter ie has a litter of 5 registers 6 or 7 then sells spare papers .ive had this from a breeder i work with .the main thing is that your happy with your dog also there are many sbt's in shelters pups/juveniles/fullgrown all crying/dieing for good homes,and remember for every sbt pup bought from breeder thats another given the jab of death just or being an sbt..

Whilst I'm sure that this does happen with unscrupulous breeders, I am also sure that it is a rarity. I've known many top breeders of staffords & none of them would dream of fasifying papers for people - they have their reputations to think of. If they are caught they will be banned by the Kennel Club & no litters bred by them from then on would be registered.

Best to go to one of the Breed Clubs & ask for a list of breeders in your area. Then at least you'll know that they are bona fide breeders.

there are many sbt's in shelters pups/juveniles/fullgrown all crying/dieing for good homes,and remember for every sbt pup bought from breeder thats another given the jab of death just or being an sbt

Good point.

MissRogue wrote:there are many sbt's in shelters pups/juveniles/fullgrown all crying/dieing for good homes,and remember for every sbt pup bought from breeder thats another given the jab of death just or being an sbt
Good point.

That is an inflamatory statement that hits at responsible breeders who care very much about what they rpoduce & where they go. If nobody bought pups, the pups would be pts anyway. If nobody bought pups, eventually nobody would breed them & so the breed would die. Also, amny people prefer to start with a pup rather than an adult. Also, what if someone wants to show thier dog? The vast majority of rescue dogs are without papers & cannot be shown under KC regulation shows.

There is nothing wrong in breeding a litter of healthy, registered pups as long as the parents have been health tested and good, decent forever homes are found for them.

Caryll wrote:

MissRogue wrote:there are many sbt's in shelters pups/juveniles/fullgrown all crying/dieing for good homes,and remember for every sbt pup bought from breeder thats another given the jab of death just or being an sbt
Good point.

That is an inflamatory statement that hits at responsible breeders who care very much about what they rpoduce & where they go. If nobody bought pups, the pups would be pts anyway. If nobody bought pups, eventually nobody would breed them & so the breed would die. Also, amny people prefer to start with a pup rather than an adult. Also, what if someone wants to show thier dog? The vast majority of rescue dogs are without papers & cannot be shown under KC regulation shows.

There is nothing wrong in breeding a litter of healthy, registered pups as long as the parents have been health tested and good, decent forever homes are found for them.

Totally agree with you Caryll

Caryll wrote:

MissRogue wrote:there are many sbt's in shelters pups/juveniles/fullgrown all crying/dieing for good homes,and remember for every sbt pup bought from breeder thats another given the jab of death just or being an sbt
Good point.

That is an inflamatory statement that hits at responsible breeders who care very much about what they rpoduce & where they go. If nobody bought pups, the pups would be pts anyway. If nobody bought pups, eventually nobody would breed them & so the breed would die. Also, amny people prefer to start with a pup rather than an adult. Also, what if someone wants to show thier dog? The vast majority of rescue dogs are without papers & cannot be shown under KC regulation shows.

There is nothing wrong in breeding a litter of healthy, registered pups as long as the parents have been health tested and good, decent forever homes are found for them.

For most of breeders yes thats right they care about their product or what they produce and obviousely not all find a good home other wise their would not of been so many SBT in the first place for them to flood shelters when all these shelter problems started. Because pure bred breeder where selling their product to the highest bidder and as long as they got their money worth they didn't care what was done to the dog or what it was used for. now i am not saying their are not some really good breeders because there are but its hard to find one that doesn't have the money symbol flash in their eyes and the ka ching in their ears when someone buys a pup off them.

like caryll says a lot of people myself included when they start of on the staffy road they like to start with a pup if and when i deside to get another i will give shelter /pound dog/rescue carefull consideration.

MissRogue wrote: now i am not saying their are not some really good breeders because there are but its hard to find one that doesn't have the money symbol flash in their eyes and the ka ching in their ears when someone buys a pup off them.

I'm sorry, but that's hogwash. Most of the decent breeders (and there are a great many of them - yes, I know, too many you may say) sell their pups at the 'going rate'. That is to say, a price that, if there is an average number of pups born, & if there are no health problems/complications during the pregnancy & birth then their costs are barely covered. Don't forget, they have to carry out health tests, some of which have to be carried out annually, they must pay the stud fee (last I heard that's around £300) they have vets bills, whelping equipment, dew claw removal, worming, feed, and possibly first vaccinations. That will amount to around £2000 in total. If they have, say, 6 pups, they'll probably keep one for their future breeding programme/showing, they'll get around £2500. So, they've made a profit of £500. Big deal. What about the sleepless nights coming up to & including the birth, the 24 hours care for the first couple of days (yes, the good breeders do do that!) and the possible health concerns if one of the pups falls ill (ask Shontelle about that one!)? But what if they only have 3 pups? They then suffer a huge loss, but they still do it because they love the breed & want others to be able to laove them too.

In my humble opinion.......lol
There is nothing wrong with buying a kc reg dog espeacially if u wanna show it etc. But as has been said before there are hundreds of pups dogs etc in shelter which if ur buying a dog for a pet would be a fantastic idea to look into it, they are all cat tested kid tested etc etc its like a personalised doggy lol.
Back to the breeding thing just because a dog is registered and had health tests isnt a good enough reason to breed, they also have to be a excellent example of the breed and have a considerable quality to add to the genetic gene pool.

bigwazza wrote:like caryll says a lot of people myself included when they start of on the staffy road they like to start with a pup if and when i deside to get another i will give shelter /pound dog/rescue carefull consideration.

You can get pups in shelters too.

My pup's breeder spent so much and is only getting money for one. She had to pay for a c-section for Mida, she's had to pay for constant checks and emergency treatment on the pups when the infection set in, then antibiotics for the pups after the first one died as well as flea and worming treatment for charlie plus all the stuff for whelping and other things I prob have forgotten. Charlie is £300. The c section cost that or more alone. She said she doesnt care about how much she's spent or gets for Charlie. All she cares about is that he goes to a home where he will be loved and looked after properly and not passed on. Not only the money, but as Caryll said, she has spent so much time and love on them too. She didnt sleep for days when she found out about the infection cos she was terrified that more would die. All that heartache and expense as well as being a mum to 2 young children. All she cares about is that Charlie goes to a loving forever home. There are most certainly breeders out there who care more about their pups than what they can get for them.

Janey wrote:

bigwazza wrote:like caryll says a lot of people myself included when they start of on the staffy road they like to start with a pup if and when i deside to get another i will give shelter /pound dog/rescue carefull consideration.

You can get pups in shelters too.

Yes, of course you can, but they are few and far between. Also, not all people will be accepted by the shelters for rehoming. I, for example wouldn't, and yet I have a wealth of experience & time for a dog. I have tried in the past to 'rescue' but to no avail. So, what would you sugest to people like me? Don't get a dog? Because that's what it comes down to. (And also, they will require you to get the pup neutered at 6 months - as you know I vehemently disagree with this.)

Caryll wrote:

Janey wrote:

bigwazza wrote:like caryll says a lot of people myself included when they start of on the staffy road they like to start with a pup if and when i deside to get another i will give shelter /pound dog/rescue carefull consideration.

You can get pups in shelters too.

Yes, of course you can, but they are few and far between. Also, not all people will be accepted by the shelters for rehoming. I, for example wouldn't, and yet I have a wealth of experience & time for a dog. I have tried in the past to 'rescue' but to no avail. So, what would you sugest to people like me? Don't get a dog? Because that's what it comes down to. (And also, they will require you to get the pup neutered at 6 months - as you know I vehemently disagree with this.)

this is very true they do have very strict homing requirememts some of which i think are a bit ott but hey thats just the way it is. Pups really arnt few and far between though....unfortunatley. I no alot of people who were dieing to rescue and not buy a pup but were refused for either not having a 6ft fence or having an intact dog although the bitch they were wanting to adopt was spayed, ummmm some other reasons as well i cant think now though....x

[quote="blaze666"]

Caryll wrote:

Janey wrote:

bigwazza wrote:like caryll says a lot of people myself included when they start of on the staffy road they like to start with a pup if and when i deside to get another i will give shelter /pound dog/rescue carefull consideration.

You can get pups in shelters too.

Yes, of course you can, but they are few and far between. Also, not all people will be accepted by the shelters for rehoming. I, for example wouldn't, and yet I have a wealth of experience & time for a dog. I have tried in the past to 'rescue' but to no avail. So, what would you sugest to people like me? Don't get a dog? Because that's what it comes down to. (And also, they will require you to get the pup neutered at 6 months - as you know I vehemently disagree with this.)

i dont think they should just give pups/dogs to everyone there should be checks but if there being so ott there not doing there selves any favours and it will just incurage people to go to breeders so dont take this the wrong way shelters and pounds are actully contrabution to the probs in a indirect way

That's a good point wazza. Shelters do an amazing job, but they dont help themselves like you said and they're turning down potential forever homes over something that isnt always relevant. But it has to be said that they do a fantastic job with the limited funding they have.

Yeah its a hard one!! Obviously they need guidlines in place but sometimes they can be a bit too strict but then again if they werent as strict they would end up with alot more dogs probably being returnrd or ending up dead (killed on road if not high enough fences etc or possibly an accidental mating etc although most dogs if old enough will of been done)
Its a tough one but it is how it is i suppose x

They reject me because, although I have a property that is on 2 floors, and have a well fenced garden, there is a shop underneath, so I have a staircase leading to my home. They will not home a dog where the property's entrance is not on the ground floor.

i will totally agrre the shelters do such a great job on such a small budget
but its just a shame there not sutable for all patential owners

Caryll wrote:

MissRogue wrote: now i am not saying their are not some really good breeders because there are but its hard to find one that doesn't have the money symbol flash in their eyes and the ka ching in their ears when someone buys a pup off them.

I'm sorry, but that's hogwash. Most of the decent breeders (and there are a great many of them - yes, I know, too many you may say) sell their pups at the 'going rate'. That is to say, a price that, if there is an average number of pups born, & if there are no health problems/complications during the pregnancy & birth then their costs are barely covered. Don't forget, they have to carry out health tests, some of which have to be carried out annually, they must pay the stud fee (last I heard that's around £300) they have vets bills, whelping equipment, dew claw removal, worming, feed, and possibly first vaccinations. That will amount to around £2000 in total. If they have, say, 6 pups, they'll probably keep one for their future breeding programme/showing, they'll get around £2500. So, they've made a profit of £500. Big deal. What about the sleepless nights coming up to & including the birth, the 24 hours care for the first couple of days (yes, the good breeders do do that!) and the possible health concerns if one of the pups falls ill (ask Shontelle about that one!)? But what if they only have 3 pups? They then suffer a huge loss, but they still do it because they love the breed & want others to be able to laove them too.

I did not say there are no good breeders because there are and they do care about the dogs as in the won't over do their dams

blaze666 wrote:In my humble opinion.......lol
There is nothing wrong with buying a kc reg dog espeacially if u wanna show it etc. But as has been said before there are hundreds of pups dogs etc in shelter which if ur buying a dog for a pet would be a fantastic idea to look into it, they are all cat tested kid tested etc etc its like a personalised doggy lol.
Back to the breeding thing just because a dog is registered and had health tests isnt a good enough reason to breed, they also have to be a excellent example of the breed and have a considerable quality to add to the genetic gene pool.

Shontelle wrote:My pup's breeder spent so much and is only getting money for one. She had to pay for a c-section for Mida, she's had to pay for constant checks and emergency treatment on the pups when the infection set in, then antibiotics for the pups after the first one died as well as flea and worming treatment for charlie plus all the stuff for whelping and other things I prob have forgotten. Charlie is £300. The c section cost that or more alone. She said she doesnt care about how much she's spent or gets for Charlie. All she cares about is that he goes to a home where he will be loved and looked after properly and not passed on. Not only the money, but as Caryll said, she has spent so much time and love on them too. She didnt sleep for days when she found out about the infection cos she was terrified that more would die. All that heartache and expense as well as being a mum to 2 young children. All she cares about is that Charlie goes to a loving forever home. There are most certainly breeders out there who care more about their pups than what they can get for them.

Now thats the kind of breeder i like.

MissRogue wrote:

Shontelle wrote:My pup's breeder spent so much and is only getting money for one. She had to pay for a c-section for Mida, she's had to pay for constant checks and emergency treatment on the pups when the infection set in, then antibiotics for the pups after the first one died as well as flea and worming treatment for charlie plus all the stuff for whelping and other things I prob have forgotten. Charlie is £300. The c section cost that or more alone. She said she doesnt care about how much she's spent or gets for Charlie. All she cares about is that he goes to a home where he will be loved and looked after properly and not passed on. Not only the money, but as Caryll said, she has spent so much time and love on them too. She didnt sleep for days when she found out about the infection cos she was terrified that more would die. All that heartache and expense as well as being a mum to 2 young children. All she cares about is that Charlie goes to a loving forever home. There are most certainly breeders out there who care more about their pups than what they can get for them.

Now thats the kind of breeder i like.

i think you would be suprised by howmany breeders are like that iv came across loads infact more than dodgy ones

Then you must live in a good area. congrats.

Kaiser had no papers and he is just fine although i did know the girl and her dogs who she bred

youngkaiser's absolutely right, you can get a superb pup from non-registered parents, provided the parents are of good temperament & are free from hereditary illness & the pups have been brought up well.

It just depends what you want your dog for. Is it purely a companion? Or will it be a companion and a show dog? If it's the first, then having no registration papers isn't a problem. If it's the 2nd, then you need the pup to be registered.

Registration in itself doesn't guarantee you a good dog. All it does is tell you that your dog is from an unbroken line of registered dogs. It's up to you to do your homework & find out what the parents are like & what the breeders are like.