Clicker training and changing behaviours in a juvenile dog

Freddie is a rescue dog we adopted a few months ago. He is about 17 months now. I tried a new dog obedience club last night that uses positive re-enforcement and clicker training. I was shocked when the trainer said with dogs pulling on a lead it needs to stop now. From this day foreword things need to be done differently. So not to re enforce bad behaviour. She even suggested people with small dogs carrying them from the car if you don't have time for a training session on the way in. Not possible with Freddie.
I am a bit concerned if he doesn't go out for a run he will be hard to handle indoors. At the moment we drive to a big oval at 7 am and tend to meet the same people where he plays really well with the other dogs. The only wiirryjbg thing is his recall isn't great more on his terms which I know is risky and I worry about it. He hasn't shown any signs at all of aggression and loves people and other dogs but I don't know how he'd react if he was attacked.
Does taking Freddie to dog parks reenforced in him that it is ok for him to go up to other dogs he sees? Hence his distress when he can't at class or on lead. But being a staffy I was told by the vet it is important to socialise him.
So not sure whether it would be good or bad to stop his socialising at this time, while I try to train him what do you think?
Just one more thing. I don't think it will be a problem getting him to loose lead around the house. If I practice several times a day how long do you all think it will take before I'm able to walk him around the streets? I am willing to give up the dog park for a while. We are really desperate to be able to walk him without him being hyper excited and pulling.

What's Freddie like on the lead at the moment, just a bit eager or towing you every which way?

I love clicker training and find it's a great method for getting a dog to be with you. It is, though, just one method and I personally think the best results are to used a variety of tools to meet a specific animal's need, and that of their owner. To be honest (speaking as a retired horse behaviour trainer), it can be really easy for a trainer to say 'just do this this and this', but they're not the ones just at the beginning of the learning curve who has to go home with the Exocet missile on the other end of the lead. In the real world these things take time and you have to find compromises and balances.

Socialisation is essential and you're really lucky that Freddie is good with other dogs. It would, in my personal opinion, be a shame to change that. It's a commonly held belief in the dog training world that the frustration of straining at the lead to get to other dogs is one of the things that leads to behaviours that appear to be aggressive later one, so keeping him on the lead near his friends would probably end you up in a worse place than you are now.

In your place, I think I'd be doing a bit of both. Let him have his play time with his buddies but not all the time. Two or three days, go to park and let him have a blast. Then the rest of the time work on recall and loose lead walking, and walk him quieter places where he will have fewer distractions if you can. No, he won't be letting off steam but if you still give him good walks, the training and other mental stimulation games you can play in the house and garden should help.

How long it takes depends on him and you, really. We took on one rescue (Nola, the lab x) whose lead work was so dreadful it took nearly a year before she could walk with her front feet touching the ground even occasionally. She was a bit of a wild one! If Freddie clicks with the clicker, is very food motivated and not too bad to start off with, it could be really quick, although more difficult situations might be a challenge for a while to come.

Back to what I was saying before, about mixing and matching different methods, just to lob an idea at you, the method this lady shows is great and very effective unless you've got a really bad problem.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0C724F6F6A597540

I currently also use a method called BAT, which teaches relaxation on a long line. As if you want more info on that.

Hope that helps!

Thank you Liz I agree he needs to stay socialised. He doesn't pull all the time on the lead just when he is excited and he gets excited at the beginning of walks and if he sees another dog or cat. Then it takes ages for him to settle down. I have had dogs my whole life but haven't trained a staffy. My ridgeback walks beautifully and most of our other dogs have been retrievers or spaniels.
Freddie can do all that is on the video at home! Lol in fact I've akready moved our training to the front garden as he isn't a problem indoors. I will keep up his play times at the park a few days a week as you suggested and hopefully I can work in his recall too. This dog is definitely a learning experuence and a challenge but he is very loveable and intelligent and I hope as he matures he will turn into a really loyal dog. He's lucky we adopted him when we did as two months after my husband was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and I would never have taken in a fourth dog if I realised that was around the corner. To be very honest I am scared that should my husband not make it I'm going to really struggle managing the four dogs with Freddie being a handful. Rehoming him isn't really an option because as I said staffies are dumped so much here.

How long have you had him? Is it maybe 'just' a question of settling down after so long of being messed around by others? (she asks hopefully!). I personally think that what you're describing could be made worse by keeping him away from others, the frustration could build.

He does sound brilliant, for all his little foibles at the moment! If he can do all the basics, then he's got a fantastic platform to work off. It sounds to me that you're absolutely in the right direction, taking his training out into the garden. Do you have other areas near you that you could go to practise, so that you can start explaining that what you do in the house happens outside too?

What I'd then be looking for are places where there are other dogs but where you can be a distance from them. Then start doing your training as far away as you need to be that he can see the dogs but still keep focus on you. As he learns, you get closer, trying all the while to keep in the zone that he knows the others are there but can cope without getting giddy.

Have you taught 'enough' (stop playing)? If not, that's possibly a good on to think about. We need it in a multi-dog household - my three are very full on but will stop even the biggest play when I ask, it's the only way for our sanity! Does he play with your others? If so, that's a good time to teach.

You sound like a wonderful person, a fantastic home and a bright future for Freddie. Your life at the moment must be so hard, yet you have your focus on him. I have a very positive feeling for him.

Thanks Liz we have had him over eight months but the first couple of months  I was fostering him and taking him to adoption shops and trying to find a home for him. He foster failed and we adopted him in November then my husband was diagnosed December and had major surgery January then straight into aggressive chemo.
We did take him to the dog park today and he had a fantastic time playing with other dogs. I did some training with him walking to and from the car. Yes he does know enough and he does play with the other dogs. We do have some nice green spaces near our house and I'll move out that way first. He has caught on with the clicker  and he does look at me more.  Because I've been home today he had been incredibly good it's easy to forget what a pain he can be.

I see you saw his pictures in the new member intro

Sorry, Shelley, I didn't click it was you! (no pun intended )

I was thinking about Freddie when I was out with Chaos just now. He sounds a bit like my Millie's mum, Roxy. Her separation anxiety was dreadful and she'd had 4 homes in 2 years before she came to the rescue centre. She was destructive and very, very noisy - never heard anything like it. I understand she has improved heaps, although it took a while.

Freddie must have been through so much in his little life, it's hardly surprising he's found things difficult. Yes, dogs live in the moment but the habits and expectations formed in the past can take a while to work through. It sounds like he's come such a long way with you already, though, that he'll get there.

Glad you're in the failed fosterers club, it's a good place to be. (Millie was a foster, just for a couple of months you understand...)

Hi Liz, we learn more and more with these ex foster dogs. Freddie probably does have separation anxiety and at the obedience class last week he just wouldn't settle was desperate to go and meet the other dogs. I spent most of the hour away from the class walking up and down then retrying him near the other dogs again. I thought he was a very excited dog but the trainer says he is an anxious dog that no dog could be that excited for an hour. We have set the first goal at class for him to actually be there and not be agitated. I can get him to walk nicely at home but outside he is on high alert. He is a very friendly dog not seen any aggression in him at all but he does have the need to go up to every dog he sees which we need to change. Hopefully this behaviour will calm down. I am reducing the time I am at class.
Millie is a lucky dog funding a home with you. Has there been any backlash in the UK against staffies after the park attack?

I like the sound of that trainer! Being able to spot anxiety above straight excitement is great! The only thing I'd say is, if that is the case, not to ask too much of him too soon. Going to classes made Chaos worse, he wasn't nearly as reactive before I did (I so regret it!), because it was all too much pressure.

Attitude to staffies worse? Amongst those who don't know them I'm not sure it could get much worse!

Thanks for that Liz I'll see how he goes. In the dog park where he can run around meeting all the dogs I didn't pick up he was anxious just that he was being super friendly . I've been advised to stop taking him to the dog park for now as he wont learn he can't run up to and play with every dog he sees if I let him have a free reign there. I have no idea whether he will eventually be able to be calm around dogs when we are out. He is great with my other dogs and my daughters dogs.
That is sad that the attitude towards staffies is so bad.

I'm feeling totally overwhelmed by it all. This is the last thing I need at the moment. I need to be able to walk him with my other dogs dont know how BAT can work for me. Is here anyway we can communicate privately Liz?

No, there isn't I'm afraid. Private messaging isn't allowed through this forum.

The sad truth is that you can't train one dog with a handful of others. I think most things I've read on dog training that refer to multi-dog households say the same thing. You simply can't give the focus you need to one dog if you've got even a smidge of your concentration with the others. We walk Chaos on his own most of the time, then Millie and Nola together. It's not that they can't walk together, it's just that I know that he needs me to be 100% with him if we hit a challenging situation.

I know it can be overwhelming, especially when you're hands are as full as yours are, but if you think outside the box of having to walk them all together, you'll find it easier to get your head round it. You no longer have one big complicated problem, you have one problem that you can now manage and a time issue to think around.

I know you'll have all sorts of other demands on your time that will probably make doing two rounds of dog walks more difficult but there are ways round it. For example, make your walks shorter and, if necessary, up the play time. Walks are important but I think less so in situations like yours where they have each other to provide exercise and stimulation.

There are few situations that I can think of when I was doing the horse work when I client said to me 'I can't change that' when we ended up agreeing that there was really no other way round it. It sometimes needs some creative thinking but once you start you often will find all sorts of alternatives. We get very stuck in our routines and ruts, it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking they are the only ways of doing things (guilty as charged m'lud). Finding alternatives can actually be quite liberating!

So you don't think it would be detrimental to him to be left at home in a crate while we walk the other dogs ? I think he'd go nuts? But I'm just assuming. I try to use the crate as little as possible and only when I have no other options if we walk them separately I'd be using it daily as I have no other safe place to leave him.

That I don't know, it does depend on him. Is he foodie, could you leave him with something that will take time for him to eat?

If you can't leave him on his own, could you walk him with one other who is 100% reliable and easy, so split them into pairs? It's not as good as him on his own but better than all 4 together.