some training advice please

Hi
Buddy is just over a year old - he is very strong on a lead and has a high chase drive, I am taking him to training classes in the open so I can work on his distractions , as once he has locked eyes on something he will lurch, jump bark and go mad and is hard to holdHe is getting better and whilst I can now get him to "watch me" if I see a cat or dog or bird in the distance and get him to walk by I still have an issue if the distraction is close...

For example this morning another dog was walking in the opposite direction on the same side of the path as us , it was too late to turn Buddy around and walk away , so I got him to sit and with treats in hand he "watched" me the whole time never paid any interest in the dog which is a massive step forward .. we waited until the dog had lost interest in looking at him and had moved a god 6 feet away , I got him to stand treated and then gave the signal to walk on.. and this is where it goes wrong, he hurtles off at full pelt almost pulling my arm off not even in the direction of the dog just in general , and pulls for around 15 minutes no matter how many times I stop or turn him or make him sit he goes off like he has been fired from a cannon.

I get the same reaction when he has done a poo and I tell him wait, he sits and then without warning lurches forward and starts jumping around like a mad thing .. and then in the next 10 minutes walks as if nothing has happened . He walks better on a collar and lead than a harness but when he acts like this I am scared he will hurt his throat or slip his collar ...

Any ideas ? he is doing so well - the trainer I use tells me to walk away from the distraction but it is not always that easy to do and as I can now get him to ignore the actual distraction most times I would like to work on the excitement after the distraction has moved away .

as a temporary measure carol a half check collar may be whats needed and a firm hand before the situation happens what I done with mia used a firm voice and pulled her to the side with not too much force behind it my voice was ample most of the time. the key is getting the timing right before the situation occurs. im sure someone will be along shortly with more advice

hi - I do use a half check .. but it just makes no difference in this situation - to control him walking to heel its perfect one rattle of the chain and he walks fine its just when there has been an event like a dog walking by or toileting he seems to get so excited and hurtles off like a bolt of lightning .. even a sharp check from my hubby doesn't stop him... I've tried the half check and his harness so I can let the harness take the force of his lunges as I don't want to injure him.. I just want to be able to stop him doing it I know its going to happen but as soon as we make a move to walk he's off and I just cant seem to prevent it - treats don't work, the check doesn't work - time delay doesn't work made him sit a good 20 minutes at one time and he was all calm and relaxed so I took one step forward and he was off full pelt..

Have you tried either a halti, or a harness with a front ring. The front ring is one that fixes onto the chest area.

Neither device will solve the issue, however they can help control lunging. A Halti might not be the best as they could hurt their neck if they lunge too hard, i'm not sure.

My dog has an issue with lunging too, so i use a harness with a ring on the front and clip her lead to that. That way if she tries to lunge, she can't use her full body weight and it physically turns her back around.

It could help you keep control whilst you teach proper etiquette

I'd go with a front ring harness too - we use the Mekuti and it was a great tool when we first got Nola who appeared physically incapable of walking anywhere with her front feet on the ground.

Unless you've got something behind you, do try running away, literally. Teach Buddy that 'this way!!!' means come and play with your toy or something, and you should be able to bale out of most situations, even if the other dog is almost upon you.

There are two things that spring to mind on the 'explosion' front. On the first reaction you describe, it sounds like he's too close to the stress and, although he's being great and is sitting like you asked him to, he's not relaxed and comfortable so, when the stress goes, he explodes. It's really common for animals to learn to hold it in really tightly when under stress but as soon as the stress has gone they feel able to express themselves. If that might be the cause, then I'd be looking to avoid putting him in situations that are that stressful and instead finding ways to work with his stressors at a greater distance, then getting closer as he learns to cope but in a relaxed way.

I definitely wouldn't be using half checks and I'd also be wary of any sort of reprimand, as that can create a negative association with the initial trigger. The key is to unlock Buddy's relaxation (I know, you're probably thinking ), but it is there somewhere!

That doesn't explain the 2nd scenario, though.

So the other guess is that he has, somewhere along the lines, learned to associate ending a sit command with a great hooley. In that case, you might want to spend some time working on sits, followed by something else structured but positive. And work on that in environments other than training classes.

Has your trainer not managed to help with the pulling? What have they suggested?

hi Liz - the trainer just tells me to keep turning him but it never works - he seems to respond more if I slow right down he comes back to heel as if to ask why we are going slow - he is so unpredictable this mornings walk was a joy no pulling walked past a dog and a couple of cats no interest at all .. lunchtime pulled like a steam train to get to birds in the trees once past the trees he was fine.. tried some sit and stay on his long line in the park over the weekend but he totally ignored me just went around from tree to tree marking and sniffing didn't wanthis toy or treats but will continue to persevere .. will look at the mekuti harness was out off before as he chews leads that are close to his face but maybe it might help reinforce the non pulling when he sees a distraction.. anything is worth a go before my arms double in length ..lol

I'd let him sniff, Carol. That's very relaxing for them. The method I've been using with Chaos is all about relaxation and it's lovely to see the how much more chilled he is. Very different issues to Buddy, I know, but it's really made me appreciate how important relaxation on walks is, otherwise it's all about go go go go go. We even encouraged snuffling but throwing treats on the ground - that's not used so much now but it's a good tool when he's got excited by a bunny or something.

If what you mean by circles is what I think, so you turn the dog fairly tight using your body, it's not something I've done for ages as I don't think it makes any sense to the dog. I prefer to teach them to heel off and on lead, using treats and changes of directly, and then to use the change of direction method when the lead goes tight, like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ-qvYh7TVU&list=PL0C724F6F6A597540&index=3

That makes more sense as you are asking the dog to be with you, rather than just circling aimlessly.

See if that makes any sense/difference.

Liz's explanation of holding in feelings and then letting them out when said trigger is gone, is spot on! This is also what Bug does when an off lead dog approaches her - she will lie down, freeze to the spot and not move a muscle and then explode when the dog has finally been taken away. As Liz says, try to avoid letting him get too close to the triggers - if they catch you by surprise you could always ask them to wait and let you cross over the road, explaining that he's currently in training. I've had to do this on many occasions and people have been surprisingly helpful! Bug also uses displacement behaviours (sniffing the floor usually, but she will spin if she's particularly upset ) I allow it if it isn't hurting her or anybody else as its her way of coping, but it's a rare occurance for her to spin as we can manage her triggers well.

We tend to only give Bug exercise away from the home once a day, because we found that on her second walk she was always really stressy. Instead, we walk her for 1.5 hours in the morning and then have a good play/training session in the garden or house in the afternoon. It works well for Bug, but I understand the need for multiple walks in younger Staffies.

hi thanks both - Liz we have done something similar in training - so I will try this on a walk and see if it helps ..Rachel- Buddy does exactly what you described BUG does lays down and then lunges - I try now to keep him moving preferably in the opposite direction and keep talking to him and I find that helps -this mornings walk was lovely - he walked past a cat had a look but kept going and let a spaniel who he has met before have a look at him but she also lunges so the owner keeps his distance he pulled a little but as soon as she had gone he walked on fine- we then met a very big dog a mix of god knows what he tried to lay down and I tried to keep him moving but the owner started talking to me.. he had a little throat growl and I could see he was anxious so I started saying don't worry he wont hurt you he wants to play !- the dog was now barking and bouncing and I think he did want to play..but not so sure Buddy would have wanted to - the owner got the message and walked off and I felt Buddy physically relax and walk on.. I am definitely getting to read his body language better - thanks for all you wonderful; tips as always will keep you posted

You're definitely doing the right thing in keeping him moving and chatting to him - though I know that's easier said than done with a 20kg staffie who's adamant that they can't move! This is probably the thing that I struggle the most with, as soon as Bug so much as glances at another dog she's on the floor, if they're far away she will just watch them until they're gone and then get up and carry on as normal, but I always need high value treats or toys with me for these instances, or she will not be budging.

Whatever you can do to break up the tension, do that I found that when Bug has an encounter with a dog throwing a ball or letting her have a zoom about gets the angsty stuff out and she can continue with her walk without being so "on edge". If she doesn't get that tension out she escalates at a much faster rate the next time she sees a dog and will just kept progressing further and further away from "baseline". As a rule, 3 or more triggers means she's stuffed for the rest of her walk and we need to get her home.

I totally empathise with you and I'd love to read your progress with Buddy and share tips, they sound very similar!

Hi Rachel they do sound so similar , the same with Buddy more than three encounters and I just go home.. I was thinking about what you said about not taking Bug out later in the day - last night Buddy didn't go out as it was pouring with rain and he just refused to budge we thought he would be really hyper but we played piggy in the middle with him with a ball for half an hour and he was quite happy to sit on the sofa and have his kong and off to bed so maybe I will try a longer morning walk and merge his lunchtime and evening walk together and instead of walking the whole time do some long line training in the park as well as a walk . I might also see if I can find a way when he has a moment to let him let off steam and see if that helps - not always easy to do depends where we are at the time but a definite to think about - would love to share tips with you .. you have done really well with Bug

Buddy Update - well thought I would update you on Buddies progress - I have started using a clicker and it has helped get his attention and focus more - in the mornings we are managing to walk past cats ( as long as they don't run !) and dogs as long as not to close , he has met a few dogs close up and he has been fine I can now in most cases get him to sit and wait until they go or get him to walk away with me..so that is good but... I am still struggling with him pulling in general his first walk of the day early morning he is wonderful walks to heel , and follows commands with or without the clicker and I treat as a reward he walks next to me looking up at me every few seconds a joy to walk, but the mid day and evening walk he is pulling like mad ,I have been using his harness and a half check together just so he doesn't do damage to himself pulling so hard - he is gasping and lunging and pulling most of the way round until he exhausts himself and then walks fine but it just spoils the walk , I have tried turning but he just does it whatever way we walk, I have tried standing rigid until the lead is loose and treating but mid day and early evening treats do not work he isn't interested tried a toy that we only use when out but again no interest just wants to pull - I was looking at the mekuti harness as suggested but I tried a friends harness that had a side ring and he just tried the whole time to chew the lead - so not sure if they would work as they are quite expensive to buy to be eaten ! I have looked at the Dogmatic and also the canny collar but not sure if they will hurt his neck as he pulls so much - he is such a good little fella in every way except this - at home and in the garden he walks fine to heel even off lead but open the gate and off he goes.. even the trainer I use is unsure what else we can try any ideas guys ?

have you tried the unho harness tezzers suggested? id definitely walk buddy a bit more using this harness and see if it works for you

hi yes he has had that harness for about 6 months at first brilliant but now he has pulled so hard backwards to get to something he has managed to get out of it - that is the harness I use with the half check as I said mornings are a joy to walk him regardless what he ha son but mid day and evening - I think it is because he is on his own and is so exited to see us he gets overwhelmed - but we have tried not taking him out straight away and he is calm in the house but when we do take him out he is twice as worse...and then other days he is fine on two out of the three walks - it is just so inconsistent its hard to know what to do for the best ...its such a shame because we love walking and he loves the outdoors as he is a nosey little thing and loves seeing what is going on...he is even getting hard to control on a long line now ..

Have you tried figure of 8 gentle leader its worked wonders for us no pulling and lunging. You can buy them on ebay