Rescue - Training Advice Please

Hi everyone!
My name is Natt and I'm new to the forum. My Fiance and I rehomed a 6 year old staff called Sox three weeks ago and he is just so perfect..!
I say perfect...until we leave the house. At home he is great, responsive and affectionate, listens first time (mostly) and has settled in really well.
Now, the moment we leave the house, Sox is all over the shop. He has never been walked off a lead and as he has previously been walked in city centers, I feel that all of the open space/fields/smells/wildlife etc is very overwhelming and Sox is unresponsive as soon as something catches his eye. If he spots other dogs he 'zones' out and won't listen to me..treats don't work either as he is totally uninterested if he's 'zoned' out.
Meeting other dogs is hit and miss, sometimes he' fine, other times he's snappy but I'm not sure if I'm making things worse as I'm not sure what to expect and could be passing my anxieties down through the lead.
I'd be really grateful of any advice, I spent the last few hours reading through some posts and there's a great sense of community here.
I should mention that Sox is yet to come off a lead and won't do so until Chris and I can trust him, however long that may take. We have a short lead and a longline and try to keep the lead as loose as possible....when he isn't pulling! He has come from another family so we have very little information as his previously family no longer had the time for him.
Thanks guys,
Natt & Sox

Hi ya Natt, welcome to the forum from Flo and me

My Flo was a rescue so can sympathise with the not letting Sox off the lead until you know more (took me 2 years but there were reasons for that) but she is off lead 99% of the time when in the park now.

You may well be right in that Sox could be completely overwhelmed by all the new experiences and is simply way too excited to listen to you and 3 weeks isn't much time to have adjusted as yet. As you know very little about his behaviour before he came to live with you I would suggest going completely back to basics with training.

Hopefully the toilet training won't need any attention so that's one off the list. Start off by doing simply commands in the house like sit, stay, come etc and build it up. Do you have a garden that you can practice in ? that way you can build it up with minor distractions before embarking on the wider world, also, try real high value treats like sausage, not your ordinary dog bikkie.

Now the lunging/pulling may require finding the right harness that suits, others will help with suggestions there I'm sure. as for the liking of other dogs, my girl can be picky and tell others off but there is never any real malice to her, it's all show but I did have to learn from her actions to minimise when this was likely to happen. You will work out the body language after a while too.

They will feel tension through the lead as you quiet rightly say. It affects some more than others and can make them feel quiet restricted. The unwanted behaviour is normally through fear of the other dog not out and out aggression and if you think about it, someone nervous on the end of the lead will only compound that fear. Try to be as confident around Sox as you can.

Wow, that's my typing done for now, we are a friendly bunch so do keep asking questions, we are here to support you. Oh.... and well done on the rescue

Hi Natt welcome to the forum from Misty and I. Congratulations on rescuing Sox, it sounds like he has come to a lovely home now.

I agree with Ian, don't be scared if things take time. We got Misty at 14 months old and she had never been walked before. The first few months were hard, she was so scared so she would bark and lunge at everything and everyone. As for recall well we are still not perfect on that yet and its been over a year. She's on a longline in parks so we have control. We have let her off previously, sometimes it's been fine,sometimes not. It's only this past weekend that I took her to an off lead dog area for the first time. Don't worry if Sox takes time you will get there in the end.



Once again congrats on giving him a new life!

hi welcome - you will find this group so helpful -I have some of the issues you have with Buddy he is 13 months old he zones in on distractions and it is hard to get him to obey but be persistent and you will see a change , but main thing is to stay calm so he feels safe with you and he will begin to relax when out 3 weeks is still early for him to settle fully yet .Long lines are a godsend lets them have a bit of freedom but you are still in control - keep us updated and some pictures too..

Thanks for such a positive response guys, we feel very welcomed :-)

I can write a longer post when at my laptop, my phone is quite limited! Can anyone recommend what to do when Sox pulls? He has a harness which works very well but I'm unsure if I'm doing the right thing by saying 'heel' and pulling him back? Is this effective or a total waste of time?

Misty is a puller too. I would definitely not pull him back as that isn't really teaching him to want to walk closer to you and can also be very painful for him.

Something we do in training class is we have a treat in opposite hand to the lead. When Misty is next to our leg we give her a treat. A very easy trick is when they pull just stop walking. Eventually and it can take a while, the dog will come back to you then you treat and begin walking again. Once they pull again you stop and repeat. It's might take an hour to get up one street but eventually it will get quicker. Also another thing I used to do, when they pull then turn and and go in the opposite direction.

 It's taken us so long but now she is a lot better, she still pulls but sometimes she is great. Last night's walk it was a very loose lead for eighty five per cent of the time. It was amazing!! You and Sox ( and me and Misty) will get there.

Hi Natt welcome from Una and me! Congratulations on rehoming Sox

Hi and welcome from me and mine too! Well done on the rescue

3 weeks is early days for a rescue, especially if they're from a very different environment. Patience is the key, and a bit of technique.

If you think he's a bit overwhelmed by open spaces, then maybe just wander around somewhere and let him look. Don't worry too much about going for a walk, just allow him time to take it all in. You can encourage him to relax and sniff by throwing treats on the ground for him too. You might well find that he pulls less just for learning how to relax.

You're spot on that you want to keep the lead or line loose. If he does go to pull, turn about and call him to you. Keep asking him to be with you gently and praise him when he comes.

You could also try the technique of holding a treat in your hand, sort of nose height, to encourage him to stay with you. You might need to look at smellier/more interesting treats, such a cheese or dried fish. You only need to give him a tiny bit so don't worry too much about the fat content unless he's overweight or unless you find you're giving him loads. If that's the case, get some lesser treats and mix them together. Let him smell the high value treat but most of the time give him the lesser one.

You might find a pattern to who he likes and who he doesn't but, in the meantime, try and set up dog meetings so that they are not direct on face to face, which is quite confrontational in dog terms. Let them sniff for 5-10 seconds, then call Sox away and reward/praise him. Wait a few seconds and repeat. It's often after those first seconds that a snap comes so calling him away (not pulling) will help relieve the tension he might feel at meeting other dogs.

Love the photo, by the way!

hi and welcome from me and mia. little and often with regard to training sessions is the key go back to basics training him from what you want from him , gain his confidence he will take.about 4 months to settle posssibly longer just depends on the things he has been through . go to puppy classes but stick to very small groups of dogs stick to the older more experienced dogs and dnt introduce too much too soon he may learn from the older dogs every day is a learning day good luck xxx

Well done to you for another rescue Natt, Sox looks lovely and sure with time and training will become better.

Hey guys,

Thanks for all of your advice above, I thought you may be interested in an update!

Sox is doing really really well. Me and Chris have been persistant with our training (I do his morning walk, Chris does his evening walk) and he is finally getting to grips with recall.
Yesterday we were out with him on his long lead in a wooded area with lots of new things around. Before the lead went tight I called him to which he came back after only 2 calls. I'm so chuffed for him as there was no tension on the lead meaning it was his choice to listen and respond to me, go Sox!
The pulling is certainly better than it was too. I walk him on his shorter lead in the morning which used to leave me knackered, fustrated and feeling bad for Sox that's he'd had a rubbish time. I now stop dead in my tracks when he pulls and won't move until he is stood by my side. Lots of encouragement and treats...LOTS of treats I know that to a certain degree, he will always pull as it's all he's ever known but it's now more a 'I'm a hench dog' pull than a dominant/ignorant pull. Alot easier now too as we've managed to get him more interested in food when outside.
He's now becoming more playful at home too which is great to see. He needs ALOT of encouragment to play but wags his tail furiously every time we do :-) Question though, if he gets particularly excited he can sometimes press his jaws lightly down on mine or Chris arm. It' always seems controlled (from him side) is never in agression and he doesn't hurt either of us but it's still behaviour we don't want to encourage. When he does that we immediately stop playtime. We tell him no and then carry on doing normal things around the house. Is that the right thing to do or is that sending a mixed message about playtime?

Hope everyone is having a lovely weekend, and thank you making us feel so welcome

Sounds like you're making great progress, well done!

Re the pulling, if you've got that far already, I have high hopes you'll crack it completely. It took us much longer than that for Nola to even realise we were on the other end of the lead .

You're absolutely right that you don't want any mouthing and your reaction of stopping playing the second he does it is spot on. I'm not convinced that saying 'no' does much good, he's much more likely to understand by having his fun taken away from him.

And fantastic progress on the recall to, it's such a great feeling when you start to make that connection, isn't it?

More progress reports to come, I hope!

well done on your progress so far natt and sox , mia was a really bad at mouthing when i got her i just everything i was doing and totally ignored her, a few minutes later i would go back to what i was doing with mia before . mouthing for me was the hardest part of mias training . wish you the best of luck .crystal and mia.xx

Thanks for the positive comments ladies :-)

I really feel like Sox is starting to trust us now and feel more confident. He definately seems like a happier guy than he was a few weeks ago!

Here's a pic of our piggy
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vuvzbjiqm7p2vzp/20160430_105208_014_01.jpg?dl=0

Sounds like you're making great progress with Sox. It really is the best feeling when you make that connection

Sox looks great in that pic too

well done Sox! its great to hear you are making headway - it makes you feel so good when they finally get it and you can see they are enjoying themselves .. keep up the good work Sox..your lovely by the way

Lovely to hear it's going so well. Your positive training methods are working brilliantly. Misty was a terrible mouther when we got her but we did as you did and stopped play or either put a toy in her mouth that she could chew on. She still tries to mouth a bit but nowhere near as much as she used to.

Sox looks so beautiful and happy

Thank you for all the encouragement guys!
This forum is a really lovely place to be and offers so much support.

Hope you and your piggies all enjoyed the sunshine this weekend

3 weeks is a very short time for you and the pooch to get to know each other. It does take time so do not worry if things are not 'perfect' straight away.

As someone who got their fur family member at the age of 2 and half I can relate to the worries you have. First thing I would suggest is some routine for both you and the pooch, that way you will all settle in to a routine that helps you both. Second, exercise. This has been the biggest help to me in getting Nita calm and responsive to commands and unfortunately being on a lead isn't sufficient to a certain extent, however there are things you can do, like running that will benefit you both in the long run.
Lastly (or really this after exercise should be paramount), training. Best way I look at it is association. If i ask 'x' then 'y' happens.

As for pulling what worked for me and Nita was when she pulled, I changed direction and went back to where I started. Walks took ages but now compared to how she was, she doesnt pull (unless we are bikejoring)

Hi Ains

Thanks for your advice :-) I'm pleased to say that Sox settled into a routine pretty quickly. My routine is pretty much the same every morning so I really think that helped Sox understand 'what is happening next' kind of thing.
He has plenty of exercise, yesterday he even pawed the cupboard that his lead is in so I'm taking that as a 'please can we go now?!' which is really exciting to see.
As for the pulling, I tried the change direction tactic and we ended up in a heap on the floor on more than one occassion haha!
How is Nita getting on now? Did you have a rough time re-homing or was it pretty straight forward other than pulling?
I must admit, the most fustrating thing about rehoming Sox is the amount of resistance we face when out walking. I know people have the misconception of how Staff's behave, react, etc but last week an old guy actually shouted at me in fear the Sox would bite him...Sox was nowhere near him or his dog and it appeared he wanted to make a scene for the sake of it.
Deep breaths....

Don't worry about small minded people you will always get them, I have the same and Buddy is the soppiest staffy ever - I try and promote the breed as much as I can to educate people about them -I must admit I have had some quite good turn arounds once people actually see him for what he is and not what they thought he was... keep up the good work with Sox you are both doing so well ...

Thanks Carol.
It really does fustrate me how small minded people can be but hey, their issue not ours
I also try to promote the breed as much as possible, I did the same with my pet rats and we've managed to help 4 of our friends overcome their fears. Lets hope the same approach is successful with Staff's

Natt, when you walk Sox is it on a short tight lead? I know that might sound silly as he's pulling but if you can walk him on a slack lead you might find he stops.

My Flo pulled like a train when we first got her and eventually found that a different harness worked. It has the lead ring behind her front legs nearer the middle of her back

Ian's spot on. In horse training terms at least it's called the into pressure response. If you push a horse, it's natural instinct is to push back, and if you pull it will pull back. We do the same, as do dogs. Try it - get someone to hold the other end of a lead from you and as them to pull, you'll probably find you want to pull back. That's why some dogs pull at all.

His morning walks are on the short lead. I've tried every which way to try and keep the lead loose but I've no idea how to do it when you give Sox an inch...

Sox' harness sounds similar to Flo's. It goes over his head with the fastening and lead clipped on to the centre of his back.

I've just got a new harness for bruno from snuggle pets, it has a hook in centre of back as well as centre of chest. You do need a double ended lead with it but it really helped with his pulling. As for small minded people, people use to cross the street away from me and bruno. Mind you a few people have change their opinion of staffs since meeting him. Good luck with sox x

So yesterday me and Sox were out on our evening walk when I spotted another dog off a lead.
I actively avoided going near the person as I could see she was looking at her phone. After about 5mins the dog clocked Sox so I shouted over that he is very unsure of dogs to which she replied 'Yea ok' and did absolutely nothing a few seconds later a fight happened and she didn't rush to come and retrieve her dog.
Can anyone offer advice as to what is the best thing to do on that situation? I thought I was doing the right thing and am now nervous to take him out in any public place where there may be dogs off leads. Thanks guys

So Sox was on lead and the other dog came up? Explain a bit more...

Sounds like you are doing brilliantly. All I can say is that it is just at that moment when you are in full panic that, despite training etc, nothing's ever going to change, that change happens.

This sounds weird but I would start singing full pelt whenever my dog passed another dog at first, because he knew I was in a good mood when I sing and also it was a way of connecting him to me. I am sure all passers-by thought I was nuts, especially with a massive Staffy, but it did work in the end. I think, a dog and his or her human finally "click" with each other and realise that they're actually a team - like Batman and Robin but with a cooler and less wimpier version of Robin.

Congratulations on the success of your fostering. It was a good read!

Yes Sox is always on a lead but is very unsure of other dogs as he's never been socialised. I'm really disappointed in myself because as soon as the fight broke out I screamed out which I know was the wrong thing to do but sadly for me, it was a natural reaction.

My OH usually takes him in the afternoon as the experience of meeting other dogs never goes well when Sox with me. When I do call out to other people to advise Sox is unsure people rarely put their dogs on a lead and then appear to be aggrevated with Sox and I if it leads to a fall out

So he's on lead and another dog comes up and he has a go at them? What exactly happens?

The dog came up, sniffed him and kind of jumped up a little. Sox looked as though he was anxious so snapped, the other dog snapped back and they started fighting.
I had to pick Sox up off the ground as the other owner didn't seem at all interested in the situation and casually wandered over.

Ok - so the first thing I would do - if possible - is walk off, rather than pick him up.

Also - best thing you can do as an owner is anticipate situations. So when you see a dog approaching and you think they're going to go right up to Sox, walk away or practice jogging or something with him (dogs seem to love running with their owners - team spirit). Or else give him a treat so he starts associating other dogs approaching with positive experiences.

If you put yourself in his shoes (?) - say you were a very anxious, antisocial, introverted person and your friends kept forcing you into intense social situations, what might help? I think one of the best things is to feel reassured, not left at sea. So if your dog knows you're on his team, and that you are in charge - and that not everything falls on his shoulders - it might help.

Also, it could be that Sox is more sensitive to large/small/male/female/castrated/entire dogs/bitches. So see if you can work out a pattern.

Finally - have you got someone with a dog with whom you can go on walks so Sox - gently, gently - can a) start feeling relaxed in canine company and b) learn from the other dog about to start feeling relaxed.

These are just my thoughts. And I'm sure a lot of people on here have had completely different experiences.

If you see your dog lock eyes with another dog & go stiff - then remove him from the situation asap, as a rule. But try and remove him by distracting him - throw a ball, or something.

The "We are a team" thing certainly works. The other owner was irresponsible as you are well aware so don't take this to heart and set you back, you are doing brilliantly with Sox

If Sox isn't actually being attacked then distract him and move away, the more Sox reacts the bigger the issue will become so the sooner you can distract and remove him the quicker things will become. Generally, if Sox doesn't show interest then the other dog will give up and walk away.

If it's a proper attack then again remove Sox by any means but keeping yourself safe, picking him up may not be the best option as you may also become a target, the other thing to remember is to act with confidence with whatever you do, the more you flap the more the situation may escalate.

Thanks both

I want to put out there that the only reason I picked Sox up is because the other dog wouldn't leave us alone. I had tried to distract and move away as you have both suggested but the other dog kept following us.

I myself can be a very anxious person at times and I'm starting to think it's me making Sox like this which is hugely upsetting. Time to man up and face my fear I guess!

As always, thanks for the support :-)

hi - I was very similar in reaction to you when I got Buddy - although I have had him from a pup he hadn't been socialised and was /is very wary of other dogs especially off lead dogs - I found a training class which was held outside and only had small numbers -I found that this really helped Buddy see that other dogs are not a threat and also helped me get used to him being around other dogs in an environment that is similar to a park , as you are right your fear/nervousness etc will have an affect on Sox .. I'm still not as confident with as my other half is but I know he can now meet other dogs happily most of the time and can read his body language and diffuse the situation by distraction a lot better - see if you can find a training class outside we only did 5 weeks but it was really worth it I learnt more about me and my fears in those 5 weeks, and Buddy adapted so well around the dogs I realised it was more me than him that had the issue , don't be put off walking Sox deep breath and off you go , you have come so far ...

Same here, Una joined us at 6 and a bit months and is reactive with dogs she's not met (among a few other things). We're doing reactive k9 classes and it's helping me practise all the tactics for distraction and focus. I do think my own anxiousness isn't helping so I really like the idea of singing full pelt

Chuffed to hear you're now feeling more confident ladies! Hopefully I'll catch you up soon ;-)
It's very interesting how our behaviour, whether we intend to make our feelings known or not, can affect our fur babies in such a big way. I've changed my mindset now that it's not just a learning curve for Sox but for me too. Like's Rupert's dad said, all about the team spirit! We have a trainer that comes to our house who has been great for the basics and I know she does classes so I'll try and arrange something.

On a positive note, Sox was fab on our walk this morning. Ian, I took your advice and have tried to keep the lead as loose as possible. It's been real tough but I'm pleased to say about 30% of our walk today had no pulling and there was actually some slack on the lead! So proud of our little piggy

Well I did our pre-vet visit walk and following Rupert's Dad's idea sang "you are my sunshine" out loud. The only problem - I just know a few lines Think Una was sure I'd lost my marbles, I got a full on head tilt from her at one point.

TwoSocks wrote:Well I did our pre-vet visit walk and following Rupert's Dad's idea sang "you are my sunshine" out loud. The only problem - I just know a few lines  Think Una was sure I'd lost my marbles, I got a full on head tilt from her at one point.

I can just picture it

oh my I just googled it, I was really singing the first verse over and over and over

"You are my sunshine, my only sunshine,
You make me happy when skies are grey,
You never know, dear, how much I love you,
Please don't take my sunshine away"

TwoSocks wrote:Well I did our pre-vet visit walk and following Rupert's Dad's idea sang "you are my sunshine" out loud. The only problem - I just know a few lines  Think Una was sure I'd lost my marbles, I got a full on head tilt from her at one point.

I make my own songs up

LOL that's a great idea!

Haha! Ange that's brilliant! :-D

This is cracking me up. The last dog I fosterer was a very jealous French bulldog called snuffles. I had her for the whole of December. Somehow Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree became Snufflin' around the Christmas tree ... Have a Snuffly holiday

I do think it gave her confidence but it stays in my head for days.

Rupertsbooks wrote: ... Snufflin' around the Christmas tree ... Have a Snuffly holiday ...

Love it!

Just thought I'd give a little update on Sox...

So with as much patience in the world Sox' behaviour is getting worse. He seems very anxious and paces quite alot. Walks are a total nightmare, he is pretty uncontrolable at the moment. With all that in mind we're meeting with a behavourist next week. We tried the at home trainer but she wasn't interested in coming for a walk with me to see how Sox behaved - but then tried to offer advice on a situation she's never witnessed.

Really hoping the behavourist will help over time, haye seeing him so unsettled and stressed.

Will keep you all posted!

Oh no! Do not despair. Can you give us some more details?

I try to walk Sox on my left as that's how his previous owners walked him.
A typical walk for me and Sox is him constantly swerving from side to side mirroring a metal detecting motion pulling the majority of the time. He is always 'rubber necking' down side streets, pulling and lunging to other dogs, bins, litter, people walking towards us, etc.
I've tried holding the lead shorter and he gets under my feet and trips me up, when I give him more slack he runs into the road.
I'm really keen to get this sorted as since having Sox my anxiety has taken a huge turn for the worst. I'm hugely concerned that if he continues to have this affect on my mental health that we could possibly have to look to rehome him which would be horrendous for him and us.

Have you done any clicker training at all, Nat? It's fantastic for teaching dogs to connect with you.

Another thought might be to look at diet. Changing diet can sometimes help calm a dog down.

I'm sure your behaviourist will have some good ideas, though. When's the appointment?