Coping with biting frenzy

Any thoughts?

Sometimes Spike will flip in an instant and gets very exuberant, and literally becomes frenzied...Ive tried to read the warning signs..glazed eyes or bared teeth etc but he seems to just flip..this can happen when he's playing alone in the garden or for instance if he sees the curtains flapping..
Other times he's quite contented and relaxed and sits by my feet chewing a toy..
Normal puppy stuff i guess?
???

Have you tried turning your back and ignoring him? He is trying to start play so if he receives the opposite reaction he should learn that biting does not get him what he wants.

Yes ive tried that. I was advised on here to wear some gloves to prevent him puncturing my skin by unfortunately this dramatically increased his tendency to bite my hands, which im currently dealing with.
I think he gets bitey when he wants to initiate play but he gets OTT...When i ignore him he will simply keep on and i have a top that now has lots of holes in it! Eventually i can distract him but i dont know whether to offer a food reward or game etc as i dont want this to reinforce the behaviour.
If i reward when he 'leaves it' will he see this as a reward for biting?
He will go from being relaxed and mooching around, then suddenly get very excited in an instant and start biting me or biting my clothes....

funkyrimpler wrote:Any thoughts?

Sometimes Spike will flip in an instant and gets very exuberant, and literally becomes frenzied...Ive tried to read the warning signs..glazed eyes or bared teeth etc but he seems to just flip..this can happen when he's playing alone in the garden or for instance if he sees the curtains flapping..
Other times he's quite contented and relaxed and sits by my feet chewing a toy..
Normal puppy stuff i guess?
???

It does just sound like playtime to me Si, and spike is telling you that ! Maybe if it`s not convenient for you, try a few time out`s

EDIT: Has he started with the Zoomies yet

This is simple puppy behaviour folding your arms in front of you and turning your back on him he will eventually come to you when he does and he seems calm this is when you should say good dog in a calm and even voice. A lot of the time the pup will play because he is bored if you have short play sessions during the day and often he is less likely to nip you even if the play session is 10 minutes in this time you can teach him commands like sit, stay , leave, as mental stimulation will also tire him out. Remember he is still a pup the more often you do the excercise or training the less likely he will have the notion of nipping and biting you. You just need to learn it all takes time and patience you will get there.

I've tried the back turning thing, but he will just start tugging at my legs, often biting them....Obviously this is him initiating play, but I've sussed out that usually he will have been playing on his own with certain toys or objects and has gotten himself wound up..Then he wants me to join in with him....
For instance, he loves playing with a some plastic dog food trays (they're packaging for the food)..He skids about on the floor, rags them about and generally enjoys himself..HOWEVER, if i let him play for more than a couple of minutes he'll start to get over excited..that's when the lights go out!
What i've done with him today is limit his solo playing with 'chase' or 'raggy' type objects....He still gets to have an hour with them, but in short bursts...and so far, today, he has been fantastic..A little bit of tugging at my leg but i calmly walked away and gave him 20-30 seconds alone. I repeated this a couple of times and he was fine..
A little while later we went through the same procedure.
The trick is to stop him getting too excited if possible....Not always easy if he's in the garden and im cooking dinner..

Sounds like you are on the right track. No method works for all pups and you just have to find what is best for you. On the bright side the phase doesn't last forever.

Glad ur on the road and realised what works for u

As I've said before, patience. Puppies don't learn in one lesson, you need to keep doing it over and over and over. It will sink in, I promise.

There are two things I'd pick up on. The first is the 'suddenly out of the blue' thing. I'd hear this from my clients all the time - 'he just suddenly without warning...', but when you actually watched closely there was plenty of warning. You need to start reading him more closely to see how he works. Given that we're almost certainly not talking about completely abnormal behaviour of going from sleep to flying across the garding in a second, there will be a build up. He might pick up a toy, he might chew something, he might give you a look, all saying 'play with me'. If you play with him then but not if he uses his teeth, he can learn that asking quietly works. And it is ok for a dog to ask and for you to give, not every time so you don't create an expectation followed by disappointment if it's no, but at this stage I'd be rewarding calm behaviour quite a bit.

For the time being, you may need to cook (and do other things) that you can drop if you need to, or invest in a puppy pen to keep Spud contained for short periods. He cannot possibly know that you can't stop something, he can only learn what he personally experiences. Timing is the absolute basic fundamental, you have to give him his yes or no the instant it's needed, the very second something first starts.

Have you read this:

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t63379-how-learning-works

I wrote it but I didn't make it up myself. It's all fundamental tried and tested training theory that I learned when studying and that I've used time and again with remedial horses and my own rescue dogs.

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t63379-how-learning-works

To answer you question

If i reward when he 'leaves it' will he see this as a reward for biting?

, the answer is in that theory. The reward is associated with the last action performed, so if you give him something he likes while he is biting (so pulling your trouser away, getting excited, doing fast movements) then you are rewarding the biting. If, though, you give him something nice (a treat, a tug on a toy) for letting go, that that is the behaviour you are rewarding.

Does that make sense? If it doesn't, or if you've got any other questions, please ask. I'm only to pleased to help.

I said Liz the predictor is when he's been playing with a toy and really getting into it. If he starts getting very excited i distract him and get him to do something else, which actually works most of the time.
Since i've been able to take him for walks he's calmed down a lot.
He already has a puppy pen etc and lots of toys.
Everything youve suggested in your post ive already been doing.

There's not much more for me to say then. Even in your last post I'm reading that you're reacting too late, when he's already over-excited, but you're the one who is there not me and I may well be just reading it wrong from here.

It is very true what Liz says - if you watch your pups behaviour you will be able to tell when he wants to play or wants your attention , in the same way as you see he is getting over stimulated which can result in a biting frenzy or crazy behaviour ...I have the same behaviour from Buddy, I have to stop it before it starts- as he is getting big now at 6 months old ad will hurt if he bites even in play,I can see in his body language when he wants my attention or is becoming bored, tired or excitable before he actually does anything,he walks round the room looking at me willing me to come to him or respond to him if I don't respond he will go over to something he knows he should not have -like the bin or my CD collection, to provoke a response - positive or negative doesn't matter , to him it is a response..., if I am busy cooking or doing something I cannot stop -I still acknowledge him by talking to him and getting him to come and sit by me so he becomes part of my world and it stops him being naughty.. if I get the timing wrong he will try biting and run round like a looney tune snapping at things or people to get attention and it is twice as hard to divert his energy at this stage to something good , prevention is definitely better than cure with this behaviour ! I also find if he has access to too many toys he is worse - I have taken his toy box away and give him a toy to play with, if he gets bored with it I change it and play a different game with him - keeps his brain active as he never knows what he is going to be given -if he has all his toys at once he doesn't know what to play with and ends up frustrated and again starts being naughty for attention - I find a quick five mins game of swopping a toy to a new one gives me an extra ten mins of doing what I am doing whilst he investigates his new toy. My husband is yet to get his head around the timing and consequently regularly has a staffy trying to bite his feet or hands because he wants his attention.. Buddy is far easier to train than my husband !- It is all about understanding the timing and rewarding at the right time so your puppy learns the behaviour you want from him and slowly he will learn that calm nice behaviour gets a reward and is better than a frenzied run around- both types of behaviour will get attention but he has to be shown which type of attention is the better one, they learn very quickly -Buddy knows when I am in the kitchen if he sits nicely on the sofa or his blanket when I am finished I will come and sit with him and give him a cuddle or a belly rub as a reward.. or even a treat.. he has learnt that is better than emptying the bin which gets a reaction but no reward.it will take time but he is young enough to pick things up really quickly.. good luck

In agreement with Liz & Carol