Collar Training???

I just wanted to see what the opinions on collar training are on here...I use the pinch/prong collar to train blue and have used it in the past.I want to know what you guys think about this and other versions like the choke and shock collars.Has anyone used any of these versions?Was it effective?What behaviors were you trying to limit/control with these methods?

Moo really has only just a simple basic collar. I used a harness when I first got her. Can't help as haven't used any of the others.

i would not use anything like that, we just used a harness then a lead and all was fine

staffiexxx recommended this

http://www.cannyco.co.uk/home.html

Why do you use a pinch/prong collar? Does your dog have aggressive tendencies? Have you tried other means of training/control?

I've never used one (or a shock collar) and would only ever use one as a last, last, last resort! 99% of the time they are not necessary.

I have used a check chain in the past (with my Border Collies, BSDs and GSDs) but not with my bully breeds as they just don't seem to always work very well with them.

I haven't used them with my dogs although i think the half check collar i may try with Ty or maybe a halti to help with the pulling. I have used a check chain with some of the dogs at the centre though. I dont agree with the pinch/prong collars, i think dogs react much better to possitive training than things which cause pain x

i wouldn't use prong, shock collars as i don't think that they are necessary, just train the dog using positive reinforcements instead

I use a thick flat collar like these -

IMO you shouldnt need anything else (though I do like to use a harness for long walks as it doesn't restrict the airway), if you do need a prong, choke chain or electric shock collar you havn't put in the work and your being lazy.

Is your dog still a pup like your profile pic? Are you not worried about damaging its trachea, what are your reasons for using a prong collar? There was a massive debate about it on here before but I cant find the post. Think it was started by 'Bluestaffblue' but I cant remember what it was called!

[quote="Nosipho"]I use a thick flat collar like these -

IMO you shouldnt need anything else (though I do like to use a harness for long walks as it doesn't restrict the airway), if you do need a prong, choke chain or electric shock collar you havn't put in the work and your being lazy.

Is your dog still a pup like your profile pic? Are you not worried about damaging its trachea, what are your reasons for using a prong collar?

I agree with this method. The bull breeds can have breathing problems and this can be complicated by chocking or other corrective collars. I recommend anytime that the dog starts to pull you turn around and walk the other way. This will teach them that you are in charge and they must follow you to see where you are going. . This method does take a bit of patience and every dog learns at a different pace. Suki was and still is a bit stubborn so I have also taken to keeping some kibble in my pocket. If she starts to pull or gets distracted I will give her the the return command and make a fist held close to my throat with some kibble in my hand. The scent and previous experience lets her know that if she focuses on me she will get to eat. After 10 meters or so of her following my side I will have her sit and wait then give her the reward. This also reinenforces the fact that she needs to look at me for guidinace and that I dictate the route of the walk.

oops din't mean to include the picture of the collar my apologies.

jstaff wrote: I recommend anytime that the dog starts to pull you turn around and walk the other way. This will teach them that you are in charge and they must follow you to see where you are going. . This method does take a bit of patience and every dog learns at a different pace. Suki was and still is a bit stubborn so I have also taken to keeping some kibble in my pocket. If she starts to pull or gets distracted I will give her the the return command and make a fist held close to my throat with some kibble in my hand. The scent and previous experience lets her know that if she focuses on me she will get to eat. After 10 meters or so of her following my side I will have her sit and wait then give her the reward. This also reinenforces the fact that she needs to look at me for guidinace and that I dictate the route of the walk.

Excellent training practise!!

Thanks, it seems that if all else fails Suki is an extremely food motivated dog. Hope I don't make her fat though. However, with her normal 3 hours plus of exercise I don't think it will be a problem.

I am using the prong collar because blue was nipping way to hard and too often..It was getting to the point where my children were fearing him after so many nips to the point of injury and tears.I tried other methods and was not getting any results I am not lazy.I have used the prong collar in the past and it was effective so I decided to give it a shot with blue.
The prong collar does not limit/restrict his airway in anyway it gives him a little nip/pinch when used correctly just like any other dog would do if blue nipped it too hard.I have only had to actually pull to pinch 3 times and he understood the message.I put the collar on him now only to make him aware of his behavior when playing with the children.I understand that there are many methods of training and I am in no way telling anyone this is the way to teach there dog.However I do not want my children to fear him and I also do not want him to nip anyone else the way he was nipping us.The breed has a bad enough wrap here in the states for him to nip someone outside of my family the way he was would only reinforce the myths of this highly misunderstood breed.

One of my reservations about the prong collar is that a dog only obeys because he fears the collar, and doesn't really learn self control. Once the collar is removed he may then revert back to the original behaviour.

How old is blue?

Blue is 11 weeks old...I understand your point.I have not been using the pinch as the solve all tool.I am also teaching my kids to be firm in there verbal commands as well as using treats and praise.So far blue has been doing very well with and without the collar on and he is now able to enjoy play with my kids(no more tears).
I got blue at just under 8 weeks and I think he may have missed out on some basic behavior lessons from his mom.In the states 8 weeks is the minimum age a pup can be sold and in his case it may have been a bit too soon.

I got blue at just under 8 weeks and I think he may have missed out on some basic behavior lessons from his mom.In the states 8 weeks is the minimum age a pup can be sold and in his case it may have been a bit too soon. [/quote]

I think this is a valid point. I got my last dog at six weeks and training and socialization was a big issue for me. She turned out being a very sweet girl but it was alot of work. I got Suki at 4 months and she was already very well socialized and used to proper behavior with other dogs. I missed out on some puppy cuteness but it was well worth it for her to have extra time with other dogs.

Pittboss wrote:Blue is 11 weeks old...I understand your point.I have not been using the pinch as the solve all tool.I am also teaching my kids to be firm in there verbal commands as well as using treats and praise.So far blue has been doing very well with and without the collar on and he is now able to enjoy play with my kids(no more tears).
I got blue at just under 8 weeks and I think he may have missed out on some basic behavior lessons from his mom.In the states 8 weeks is the minimum age a pup can be sold and in his case it may have been a bit too soon.

Hes still only a tiny baby himself.......i think u could find a much better method than pinching this little baby x

Now, I know I don't like prong/ponch collars anyway, but to use one on a very young puppy is unforgivable. I'm sorry if that offends, but there are better ways of training than that. You've only had him 3 weeks, so you wouldn't have had time to show that other training methods don't work. If he was nipping your children then you should have constantly supervised all interraction between them so that you could stop rough play before it started.

I know you'll find that harsh, but I can't help the way I feel. It's just too young.

Caryll wrote:Now, I know I don't like prong/ponch collars anyway, but to use one on a very young puppy is unforgivable. I'm sorry if that offends, but there are better ways of training than that. You've only had him 3 weeks, so you wouldn't have had time to show that other training methods don't work. If he was nipping your children then you should have constantly supervised all interraction between them so that you could stop rough play before it started.

I know you'll find that harsh, but I can't help the way I feel. It's just too young.

I couldn't agree more. Using a prong collar on an 11 week old baby is disgusting. If he was older, and you'd tried everything else, it might be a little more understandable, but to use one on such a young puppy who knows nothing about anything and is just being a puppy is barbaric. Blue is not going to learn that obeying you and respecting you is a good thing that brings praise and rewards, he's going to learn that not obeying you brings him pain. That is not training. That's just cruel. Give him a chance to be a puppy and learn things the right way, not by causing him physical pain (and possible injury) if he does something wrong.

Caryll wrote:Now, I know I don't like prong/ponch collars anyway, but to use one on a very young puppy is unforgivable. I'm sorry if that offends, but there are better ways of training than that. You've only had him 3 weeks, so you wouldn't have had time to show that other training methods don't work. If he was nipping your children then you should have constantly supervised all interraction between them so that you could stop rough play before it started.

I know you'll find that harsh, but I can't help the way I feel. It's just too young.

Couldn't agree more with this.

You can't expect a perfect pup in 3 weeks it takes months of hard work and training, TBH a prong collar is just a lazy way of training a pup, as caryll said it just makes blue fear the collar rather then him learning the correct behaviour.

Pittboss wrote:Blue is 11 weeks old..I got blue at just under 8 weeks and I think he may have missed out on some basic behavior lessons from his mom

.

Uh uh, I think your wrong. It is lazy and cruel to use one on a puppy (let alone any dog). You are supposed to be teaching him how to behave and what is acceptable, hes brand new he doesn't have any knowledge of the world. I'm sorry I'm going to have to stay out of this topic cuz I might get a little wound up...

Nosipho wrote:

Pittboss wrote:Blue is 11 weeks old..I got blue at just under 8 weeks and I think he may have missed out on some basic behavior lessons from his mom

.

Uh uh, I think your wrong. It is lazy and cruel to use one on a puppy (let alone any dog). You are supposed to be teaching him how to behave and what is acceptable, hes brand new he doesn't have any knowledge of the world. I'm sorry I'm going to have to stay out of this topic cuz I might get a little wound up...

yes your pup is still only a baby...

Blake is 12 weeks sure he nips, hello, he is a puppy . He chases your feet, sinks his teeth into you at every opportunity, he has mad half hours wrecking everything in his path. Infact sometimes he is like a crocodile, just teeth everywhere, stroke him, he bites, play with him, he bites, anything else, you guessed he bites. Would I use a pinch collar on him NO WAY, not only is he way to young, but he has no chance of learning with humane training. Blake will carry on being corrected when he nips, and in time he WILL NOT nip without any need for pinch collars

Hi Guys
I am new to this site/forum, but have found a really useful guidance sheet on this website regarding puppy biting and ways to stop this, without having to resort to using what sounds like a medieval tool of torture. Can I respectfully suggest that you check this out.

Kentish Lady wrote:Hi Guys
I am new to this site/forum, but have found a really useful guidance sheet on this website regarding puppy biting and ways to stop this, without having to resort to using what sounds like a medieval tool of torture. Can I respectfully suggest that you check this out.

Do you have a link you can share?

(Hiya and welcomr btw)

please find below a link to the page I was referring to........hope it helps.

http://staffy-bull-terrier.co.uk/stopyourstaffypuppybiting.html

thanks x

Kentish Lady wrote:please find below a link to the page I was referring to........hope it helps.

http://staffy-bull-terrier.co.uk/stopyourstaffypuppybiting.html

You're a star, thanks!

Our Rascal is a week or so younger than Blue and we are having similar issues with her nipping at our children, aged seven and five (plus our own fingers, toes and ears).

First thing is we just plain don't leave the children unsupervised with her, and if she starts going after them and is gaining the upper hand we are on the spot immediately to intervene. In tandem with that, we are trying to help them respond to her behaviour appropriately, as outlined in the "How To" link that Kentish Lady posted (thanks KL, top info).

The other thing though that is really working for Rascal is pigs ears. She loves them and lays there chewing on them for ages, which really reduces her apparent need to sink her teeth into other things (like us).

While I don't know any more about these prong collars than what has been posted here, they don't sound like what a puppy needs, and I would certainly be investigating other, far more positive options before proceeding any further down the road you have chosen.

Thanks for all the input I appreciate it..After hearing all of the experienced owners of this breed I decided that it was best to go another way.I found out that Blue was the "Dominant" dog of the litter after speaking with the breeder and he tended to be rough when challenged by the other pups.So I decided to bring him around some larger dogs of my friends and let him learn from them and so far it seems to have payed off.He is still a little crocodile but he is no longer biting to the point of blood lol..We are also using the ignore method along with the give him something he can chew method.

All play with the the pup and my kids has been and will continue to be supervised.They are learning when to walk away and ignore him as well as replacing there hands and feet with a toy he can chew.

Just to fill you guys in on why I chose the prong collar.I have owned Amstaffs and Pitbulls in the past and was told by the breeders that the prong was a tool I would need in training them so I used it and it was effective.I understand now that with a true staffie the stern hand may not have the intended effect and should only be used when absolutely necessary...

Thanks again for all the input and I look forward to more great advice.

I'm so glad you've decided to try another way, thank you for listening!

Personally I don't think that prong collars are needed in any breed, or at least not for 99.999% of cases. And definitely not for pups.

A dog that is trained by force/fear/pain may eventually turn against that force. A dog that is trained with patience and firm kindness will repay that kindness 1000 times over!

Keep us informed of how you're doing & let's have some pics!

im so glad you have made some progress once they get what you want them to act like you will start to come on leaps and bounds well done blue

I know how hard work a nipping puppy can be.... you should see my hands.. but you have done the right thing.... glad he is getting better....

Glad to see that things are working out for you. I Being around older well balanced dogs is a wonderfull tool that I think is very important for a puppy. This continues to allow them to learn from other dogs and the older dogs are patient and tolerable of puppies. This also gets them socialized and I beilieve puppys should be exposed to as many different types of people and animals as possible so they can gain confidence in themselves.

There will come a time where the older dogs will not tolerate the "puppy" behavior" and may growl or bark. It's just the doggy way of communicating what behavior is no longer acceptable. I still laugh when a small adult dog will bark and Suki will correct her behavior.

That's fantastic news. I feel I was a little too harsh, and I apologise for that, but it's something I feel very strongly about.

Thank you for taking on board everything that was said, and I'm glad that Blue is responding to the new method.

Prong collar training was once thought of as a highly useful method, but people are realising now how dated and cruel it is. It was used when the general consensus was that it was ok to give your dog a whack cos you are it's master and it should obey your every whim. Outdated, and un-necessary.

I'm sure yo'll find that you have a happier puppy who will respond well and enjoy the praise and reward he gets. Lucky Blue

Lucky Blue.