Some issue of concern

I haven't been on the forum for ages but I have issues with Lily (apart from the eating mentioned in the "fussy eating" post. As she's approx. 5 years old now I wonder if she's past the age of being trained and just don't know what to do with her, the thought of spending another 7 years of more with her fills me with dread - I'll be in my seventiess by then - but she's a rescue so I wouldn't send her back, I have had her 3 years now. Apologies as this is going to be rambling but just wondered if anyone has had any experience of the following and has advice to give.

Meet and greet outside the house - Lily loves being of the lead but she jumps on people all the time. I go to dog walking places and it doesn't help when people say its OK and give her a stroke. The next person might get angry and say I don't have control of my dog. I have tried the plastic bottle with stones which worked only on the first couple of occasions. So I don't let her off the lead any more which is a shame as she loves to run free and when no-one is around she comes back to me all the time.

Other dogs - she will lunge at most dogs when we pass, apart from the most meek and placid ones which she just eyes shiftily until they pass. I spend a lot of time crossing backward and forward across the road. She was ok with other dogs when I used to let her off the lead - she wouldn't play, but just to check out they aren't any trouble. She scurries up to them bent very low like a sheepdog roudning up sheep - she looks very threatening when she does this. I cannot stroke or acknowledge any other dogs as she will go for them.

At home - there is all hell let loose if anyone comes to the door. Anyone who comes in is fair game in her eyes, she thinks everyone has come to see her and jumps all over them. We have to put her in the conservatory which is a battle in itself and she wiill bark the whole time.

I have spent almost £500 on both group training and individual training. She takes more notice of them than she does of me, I have pages and pages of leaflets they have left me and nothing works.

So there you go, I feel like a bad or useless owner but she is a very headstrong dog and whilst most days I wish I had got a cockerpoo, there are occasions she can be lovely. On the plus side I am fitter than I ever was andd walk for miles, which is more than can be said of my other half who is having a hip replaced in the new year. I am really worried about that too in case she jumps on him.

So there you go - over to you guys for any advice, just don't know what to tackly first. Many thanks.

I feel like a bad or useless owner but she is a very headstrong dog wrote:

Dont feel bad or useless they are head strong.

Personally I would tackle the meet and greets both at home and outside first try the old getting everyone to ignore her until she relaxes then she gets a pat with strangers who say its ok for her to jump on them let them know you are trying to train her.

Hope this helps and good luck

okay, it's time to train the human rather than the dog. sorry to say this but i have a feeling you knew this would be coming.

1/ you have a hyper intelligent dog. she knows what will get a favourable reaction. people loving the attention will always rank over the miserable gits
2/ my boy will mostly ignore other dogs while laska will launch herself at anything beleiving they will play her style. both leaded all the time as laska will rag a small dog wicked in innocent play, marley will rag it as prey. laska has play bowed a irish wolf hound while marley intensly stared out its kneecaps. try group walks and positive reinforcment .
3/ tough one, its a happy reaction that staffs love people, especialy new people. best freind they have never known so something you dont want to swing in the wrong direction. would suggest reading up on stan rawlingson, great bloke who i personally think has dog behaviour nailed

It all sounds fairly normal to me, Ledger is also about 5yrs and a rescue and certainly not beyond training we entertained a cafe yesterday with his tricks for treats 

When it comes to outdoor greetings he gets off lead runs in controlled situations but he will go on lead to meet people and he has to 'sit for fuss' it's a long process and not perfect but getting there

Many staffys just aren't dog dogs the 'watch me' command is great so if there is space I step to the side get his attention and treat this is also clear to other owners that you don't want their dog to approach as time has gone on I can see how comfortable Ledger is with an oncoming dog if he is tense then we step over if he is relaxed and waggy and the other dog is too then I allow a controlled intro if they go nose to nose then high pitched and happy I call him away but if they go tail to tail then they get a few seconds half of it is staying relaxed yourself 

Ledger is very much the same at home and it's hard as you can't spend half an hour training everyone that comes into your house to ignore the behaviour, only give attention and treat when the dog is calm etc so they learn that they get attention in the excited state. I have frozen stuffed hooves or kongs to distract him when I have guests

Hey,

I had a terrier like this before. Really high energy dog! I found training went best for me after i had tired him out a bit. Can lily fetch? If so i recommend taking her out and running the legs off her. Then take her through the park on the lead and begin your training. Likewise try and replicate the situation at home.
Be consistent, especially at home! When someone is visiting ask them not to acknowledge (dont even look at her) the dog until she is calm! You have to do this consistently, trust me it works. It will take time but once she knows nothing comes from getting excited she'll cop on. Most importantly exercise is key!!! You have to give her a release for all that energy. I dont know how active you are yourself, but a high energy staffy needs a good run every day (fetch, jogging partner, run with the bike). This will make everything much easier for you, promise :-)

Don't feel like a bad or useless owner you're not simply because of the fact that you are still persevering with the training. A dog is never too old to be trained.

Great advice above. Staffies have a way of knowing who's in charge and who they can play up with. Perfect example is me lol. Axl is a little angel for my boyfriend and my dog walker both are male. With me he is a little horror But I've started doing a few things differently and he's changing. The funny thing is it only took a week before he changed. Now he knows he can't take the pee with me. The changes I made are very simple. When I come in from work/out I don't make a fuss of him as soon as I go in the door I say hello to every human in the house with him trailing behind. When I'm ready I say hello. He has to work for my attention. Also I used to give him treats for nothing. Not any more. He has to work for them even if it's a simple "sit". He's getting the message, I'm not a pushover.

Also I think a lot of people forget that mental stimulation is just as important than physical exercise. Staffies are so intelligent and if their mental needs are not met as well as physical tend to be over excited and play up. A great game that axl loves is "find it" I do this after our walk in the morning. Hide a ball around the house and let her find it, very simple but very effective I know axl loves it. You can also use treats if she's more ball orientated.

Lastly axl is the same wth visitors. We use the kitchen as a no go area, visitors come through the door then straight to the kitchen. Axl will follow them jumping but I tell them to ignore him completely, walk through him if need be. Once they get to the kitchen he will sit outside wiggling and doing the staffy dance for a minute but then gets bored as everyone is ignoring him. And wanders off to chew his bone. When he's calm and chewing my guest will give him a treat and come out the kitchen. By then he's calmed down and more receptive to commands and it's easier to keep him calm.

The jumping up outside I can't help with as axl still does this lol we're working on it!

I hope this helps but don't give up you're still trying which makes you a wonderful owner in my eyes

Animals (including us!) are never too old to learn. Everyone is learning all the time, it's just that we're often not aware of it. In other words, don't give up!

I agree that it's human training that's needed, rather than dog training. Did the trainers you've seen work with you, upping your leadership and self confidence, or did they just work with Lily? Teaching you some techniques to help you feel you've got the tools to deal with this more should help masses. If you're standing there feeling powerless and a passenger to all that Lily does, that's what she'll feel from you too.

I agree that the 'watch me' method, asking Lily not to focus on the other person/dog would be a good one to start with. Have something delicious in your hand and bring it up to your face, asking Lily to 'watch me', and give her the treat when she makes eye contact with you. You might need to waft it under her nose if she's distracted! Practice in easy situations first, then apply it out walking not only when there is a potential issue you spot but also at random times. When you do see a dog or a person, go into 'watch me' mode and work really hard to keep her focus with you until they are well past you, then huge praise if she gets it right. If you lose her, keep going, keep asking her back, walk backwards if necessary to bring her with you. If you shrug your shoulders and give in you'll never get her back, but if you keep working you will. It might not work all the time but chip away and you'll get there.

It might help to have a 'dog in training, please ignore us' t-shirt, so that if she does launch herself with glee at someone they can understand to ignore her without you needing to go into lengthy explanations which will take your attention from her. If, though, someone does talk to her, politely but firmly ask them not to unless and until you say so.

Re the at home situation, remember that you can always use what the dog wants most as a reward for doing what you want. I'm doing some work with one of the dogs at the Danaher shelter at the moment for just this - he's so craving company he climbs all over anyone who goes in with him. If he jumps up, I turn my back. The second he's still he gets a fuss, but if he goes to jump again I'll swing away again. 4 feet on the floor = cuddles, anything else gets a turned back.

The key to success is consistency. You need to keep this up all the time, with everyone Lily meets. She's a bright dog, once she understand that all she needs to do is stand still and, if asked, focus on you to get something great, she should start to become much easier for you.

You might need to waft it under her nose if she's distracted!

lol the amount of times I've had to do this to get Axl to look at me when training him to "look"... I must have looked a right plum waving a bit of cheese under his nose only for him to ignore me anyway! It worked eventually though lol

Pauline you could be describing me and my Harry.  I'm a similar age
to you and Harry is 6 and I have had him from 7 weeks old. He is
my sixth Staffie so I consider myself experienced with the breed.
Harry behaves exactly as you say Lily does despite my training,
and one to one training, though he is improving.

To be honest, I have to admit I really get embarrassed that I have
been unable to stop him from mugging my visitors and quite understand it
when you say that you feel like a useless owner but i'm sure neither
of us are.

I have been told by a behaviourist that they never get to see 'dumb' dogs,
its always the highly intelligent dogs that owners have problems with as
they don't make such easy pets.  This is certainly true of my Harry as
I can teach him absolutely any trick etc, but what I have been unable to
do so far, is stop him from doing a couple of things I don't want him to do
because it takes co-operation from others.

Anyway, just to confirm what some of the other members have said, do not give any attention to Lily when she is jumping up, fold arms, turn your back and no eye contact.  Any reaction of any sort is attention, even a
telling off!  Reward her when all 4 feet are on the ground and keep doing
this.  She will soon learn that jumping gets her nothing and standing still
gets rewards.  

You must be very firm with other people so that they do the same as consistancy
is the key here.

As for the lunging,  the advice I was given was to train her to look at you
and make eye contact with you, again as described by others.

I found it works slowly, it doesn't happen overnight but you suddenly realise that all the
hard work is paying off and its a wonderful feeling when they do get it right.

Good Luck

I hope some of this advice helps Pauline dont forget the good bits

Hi - I'm 65 and have a 14mth old rescue Staffy & sometimes I wonder why on earth I've committed myself to this animal at my age but I love him to bits altho, like Lily, he can be hard work but he's getting there. Keep at it Pauline - there's such wonderful people with great advice on this forum - you never feel alone with problems and it'll be worth it in the end x

Wow, I am completely overwhelmed by all your advice.  You are right, I know its down to train the human and I have let things slip until it all melds into  one big problem.  The 'watch me' command seems to be a good place to make a start and I will concentrate on this first, but I take on board everything you have said and will try everything you have suggested.  I have a book to buy and videos to watch.  I will come back and let you know how she is doing so watch this space.    Thank you for all your help.  
p.s. nice to know I'm not the only older staffie owner on the block

Polleyanna, just asking advice tells me you are one committed and good dog owner. far to often we come accross the know it alls, thing is there arnt any know it alls, just alot of know a bit me included. with dogs its down to the individual, you know him like no one else, so work on that and follow your gut instinct. we share our own experiances in the hope it helps others but its up to you to decide what works best. your boy is a stunner and really do think with your attitude you will go far. faith in yourself mate, keep that.

As a puppy (he's 14 months now) Bo was like this but probably worse, he was so insane he'd jump at people's chests then fall on his back with his legs peddling and jaws snapping with no idea what he was doing. He's a lot better now and I found that with other people the key was not to ask them to ignore him (it made no difference, he'd jump for literally two hours without encouragement) but to gently press down on his shoulders to discourage him from jumping. For the those people who did this who he used to leap on every time he saw them he no longer jumps, just fusses a bit at their feet then sits and waits for a petting. He's much better with strangers too and whilst he'll occasionally jump up if they talk to him, most of the time he'll sit down patiently and think his Staffie thoughts.

As for visitors to the house, we're working on it...

he'll sit down patiently and think his Staffie thoughts.

lol this made me chuckle... I'm pretty sure Axl's staffie thoughts just include biscuit,human,biscuit,human,grass,biscuit.... haha

Loads of good advice above Pollyanna some which I will be using on Dizzy!  Just wanted to add I agree you aren't a bad owner at all the fact you care enough to come here and ask for help says so much.  

Dizzy does so much of what you said and annoyingly is much better behaved for my other half than me despite me spending more time training him - I teach him things the OH then just uses the skills!!

For the in the house part we put Dizz in the kitchen when people first come in and give him some time to calm slightly (sometimes with a bone but not always) we let him out once he has had about 5/10 mins time out and he is allowed to greet people, as long as he doesn't jump up.  Any jumping and he gets told no and goes back into the kitchen again.  It seems to work as he is sociable and all he wants is to be in the same room as everyone else.  He knows if he calms down and behaves this happens.

There will always be bad days let Dizz out yesterday and a woman was walking past and gave him a pat as people do (he is a beaut if I do say so myself and people just want to pet him) the issue being he then decided climbing over the fence was the best idea ever.  I had to grab his collar at which point he went into growling mode!!  Trying to explain that actually he isn't growling at her but me for ruining his plan and really would she please just walk on so I can calm him down thank you very much....  It will happen, you just have to put it to one side, hard work I know but then they will come and plonk themselves on your lap and fall asleep and all is forgiven  

Keep working on it they are never too old to learn.  Plus if your little un is anything like Dizz don't worry about after the hip operation.  The only person Dizz doesn't and I don't think he ever has jumped up on is my 84yr old relative.  Doesn't push him just goes up and gets a pat and then walks off (no pushing past nothing almost as if he knows he shouldn't)!

It sounds like a little letting go of the reigns has led to letting go of her self control. You need to remind your dog that you are the boss and it's their job to keep you happy. As a little Mexican guy sometimes says rules boundaries and limitations, coz without them anarchy takes over. I think your dog will be happier too if they know what's what. It doesn't mean you love them any less but like children they do need guidance. If necessary tell visitors that you are in training and they need to be patient and understanding to aide your consistancy. Try practicing indoors first and then gradually building up to outdoors on the lead etc. If your dog has behaved properly in the past they should pick it up in no time, they just need reminding. All the best, Ian. ps Merry Christmas all. pps. Maybe a dog coat with DOG IN TRAINING migt remind others to help you rather than clash with your work. My sister's guide dog wears one to stop people stroking him etc when he's working.

Many thanks for the comments since my last posting - lots of words of encouragement and I must admit I feel more positive now knowing I have the support of so many people.  I know its my own fault to have let things slip.  

I love to hear all your stories as they make me smile but they all have the same thing in common - perseverance and lots of love. I will le you know how I get on.  Many thanks.