BAD NEWS

I haven't been on here for a while as something terrible has happened. While out for a walk a few weeks ago a dog off lead growled and showed his teeth at Mia in an aggressive way. Mia went for the dog and a fight broke out which lasted about 10 secs. The other dog had a cut ear and had to have 18 stitches. Mia was unhurt. Anyway I did the responsible thing and gave the owner my name, address and phone number. I said I would pay for the vets bill even though his dog started it.
I suppose that wasn't good enough and he reported me to the police. On sept 1st (which was my birthday) a PC came to the house and seized Mia. Took her off to kennels to assess her.
Apparently she shows a lot of characteristics of a pit bull type.
I have to go to court on Wed 17th to try and get her back.
As you can imagine it has been a very stressful and upsetting time for all concerned. Mia has been well behaved at the kennels and shown no sign of aggression to either staff or the other dogs.
It is going to be recommended to the court that Mia be returned home as she is not a danger to public safety, but she will have to wear a muzzle and on lead in public and pay defra to go on the exempted dog register.
It is down to the court whether she be returned or destroyed.
People's thoughts and opinions would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Oh hun - I have never been in that situation - as long as she is well behaved I would have thought she will placed back with you but never heard of i happening so quickly! I guess all you can do is comply x

Oh no, I'm so sorry, yes if she's been well behaved and shown no signs of aggression presumably you should get her back, everything crossed for you xx

Oh my god. I'm so sorry, that sounds horrific! Hope all goes well, can't imagine how stressed and upset you are right now xxx

Omg what a nightmare, you did everything right and still end up in court

I can't see how Mia looks anything like Type !. I guess all you can do is roll with it now till the 17th. I really hope common sense prevails.

Another instance of this fascist law being enacted by brainless plod. All you can do now is agree to the conditions, show the idiots in court the respect they don't deserve and it's very likely your dog will be returned. Good luck for Wednesday.

FWIW, personally I would never give details in a situation like that. You did the decent thing and you got shafted for it, that's what you get for trying to help out. If my dog was not at fault I'd deny anything ever happened and it would be up to the complainant to provide evidence, which unless there were witnesses they would be unable to do.

Out of interest what did the police say had been reported? Have they taken formal proceedings or has it just been Mia taken for assessment?

It can be a quick process but providing there are no warning signals that police or dog wardens etc have against you or anyone in the home and given Mias perfect behaviour in kennels there should be no reason why she won't be home

OMG, what a nightmare. Everythting's crossed for you and our thoughts with you on 17th.

The police report said Mia attacked the dog and I could be arrested for having a dangerous dog out of control in a public place. My hands are tied really. I could challenge the court and say she isn't a pit bull but then the court would be adjourned and Mia would spend more time in kennels away from the family. They have you over a barrel really because you will agree to anything to get your dog back quicker.
Because I tried to do the responsible thing I suppose it made me an easy target. The other owner also stated that his dog did nothing wrong and because there were no witnesses and his dog had an injury there is nothing I can do to prove otherwise. We all just want Mia home A.S.A.P.

Thinking of you

Sounds like such a horrible situation. The other dog owner sounds incredibly irresponsible. I wish you luck.

Was Mia on a lead at the time this apparent attack happened ?

It sounds like the other dog owner is trying to blame your dog entirely for what happened. As you had already offered to pay the vet bill that should have been the end of it.

Police would not usually get invloved with a dog on dog attack. I'm wondering if the other owner tried to say that he felt worried for his own safety near your dog which would cause the police to be involved. please take a look at the link below which describes this legislation:

https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview

I hope your dog is returned very soon.

Mia was off lead and the other owners 2 dogs were also off lead. One of his dogs came up to Mia growling and showing his teeth.

How awful for you. Crossing everything for a good outcome next week x

So cruel, as you had done the right thing. Best wishes for next week

Really sorry to hear this I hope all can be sorted and you have Mia back home asap xx

I'm horrified that could easily be me or any it us as any staffy can be accused of being a pit bull TYPE . I suggested before but got no respond but I think we all should unite and use social media as a starting  platform to make a change. Thousands of dogs accused of being type with no aggressive behaviour are being destroyed monthly if we don't fight it it can be ours  ! I had similar situation with peppa today that me and the other owner managed to stop. Debs my heart goes to you it could have been me .
Please let me know if you want to do something about it .

After experiencing this first hand there are alot of flaws in the system. Like you said there must be thousands of staffys that could be classed as pit bull type. I would love to do something about it.

have you sign he dog over?

I think it should be in two levels :one is to change the draconian law and 
Use social media I was thinking of starting an e- petition .
And for the dogs that are classed as type if they have 7 days and if they are not being claimed they are being destroyed cause as type dogs they cannot be rehomed so I was thinking of starting a charity to collect money and open kennels for them.
I'm ready to start today but need help and maybe some of you have better ideas ??

they wont listen to petitions & they cant destroya dog if it hasn't been sign over till the court say so

No I haven't signed Mia over, she is a much loved family pet and I want her back.

I know and that's why you should NEVER sign over your dog but think of 
All family non aggressive dogs that are abandoned by irresponsible owners if they are suspected to be type by unscientific measurements they cannot be rehomed and therefore being destroyed . Same with dogs that get lost and not claimed in the right place in 7 days .
Steve if you dont think petition is the thing to do what do you suggest instead? Is there a way to use this forum to start organising? So we can 
group together because it has to do with all of us and what happened to poor Mia can happen to all of us

you need to proof that the dog is safe in public...

i would love to but after the Lennox campaign has put me off on doing anything for this!

Your dog was standing up for itself - it's a normal dog reaction if another dog approaches in a frightening aggressive way. Absolutely awful what's happened to you. My thoughts are for you all and I hope you are re-united with your gorgeous Staffy very soon - by the way I can't see any Pitbull traits in that photo whatsoever x

Sorry I didn't think of this sooner, have you tried contacting DDA Watch:

http://www.ddawatch.co.uk/

Definitely contact DDA they do amazing things regarding safeguarding family pets Hun xxx

aww this is simply awful hopefully something can be done.. this would be my worst nightmare good luck

i so hope all goes well for you this week,i cant imagine how you must feel lovey xx

Oh Debs you must be distraught! I hope they see sense and return Mia to you.
Shame on the other dogs owners!

Mia is not the first dog in the world to be involved in a dog scrap. This reaction by the police seems surprising. My Douglas was involved in an incident recently  - a chain of events that also was started by the other dog (though it was the other dog that got injured). Same as you, I offered to pay the vet bill, which was £80. That was the end of it, fortunately, and surely that was the correct outcome. So from first hand experience, i really sympathise with your situation. The most important thing now is to think through how is the best way to play things on the 17th - to mitigate, placate, reassure and, above all, to get Mia back. I have no experience of DDA watch, but I would certainly try them. Also, to get legal advice and support to help ensure things take the right direction - not a direction influenced by prejudice and ignorance. If you can achieve the muzzle and lead-in-public situation (which is the best option?), then you will surely be able to put this behind you. Poor Mia, she must be bewildered, I hope you get her home soon.

Hope everything turns out well for you and Mia

To add to previous, I will try and suggest something a bit more useful – but please bear in mind I have no professional capacity. This is just my opinion (based on owning a similar dog), written in the hope that it may be helpful in some way.

Steve’s short sentence of advice is the key one here:  you need to proof that the dog is safe in public...

Thanks Steve.

So, I would cite three main elements that potentially could be in the ring for defending the case:

1. The idiocy of the DDA and its breed-specific legislation. It is idiotic, but I’d say this is not the time or place to bring it up. It’s a fight for another day. The court will only be concerned about interpreting and applying the law – not adjusting or making a new one. So, personally, I would steer clear of this argument.

2. Mia’s excellent placid nature, the ideal family pet, her unblemished record, the fact that this has not happened before. This argument is, I believe worth putting, but I think you should anticipate limited success with it. It would help if you could come up with some evidence to back any statement about Mia’s good behaviour – beyond, ideally, just your saying so. After all, everyone will say that their own dog is the best, most affectionate dog on the planet.

3. Thirdly, and this is getting into Steve’s territory, explaining your own commendable, responsible dog ownership/training credentials. To say that this was a one-off, that you take it seriously, that you’re devastated that it happened, that you are willing to look at all reasonable measures to ensure that it will not happen again, etc. As Steve says, the bottom line for the court will be to ensure that the dog is not a danger to the public, so to demonstrate that the public is safe by all means you possibly can. Some members of the public are very ill-informed and even believe that a dog that has shown aggression to another dog is a candidate next time for showing aggression to a child. This is utterly untrue, as we know, but some people believe it (and get very emotional and indignant about the thought of it). If this attitude surfaces in the court, it will have to be politely refuted (I would look for a quote from a respected source in preparation for this argument). It’s worth bearing in mind that there is a way for a human to get injured in a dog-on-dog aggression incident though – it’s by trying to break them up. Did that happen in this case? The law is basically designed to protect humans, so it’s worth demonstrating that you’ve thought about this in advance by having something to say on it if necessary.

So all of the above is what I believe would be preparation for the key argument – the one about not being a danger to the public. I would also prepare and rehearse some statements. I would also predict what the response would be to these statements so that you can counter. This also takes preparation. For example, you may say ‘my dog is not any more likely to bite than a Chihuahua, a spaniel or a poodle’. Ah, they say, but the Chihuahua’s little jaws cannot do the same amount of damage. So to come back with an answer to that, and to prepare an answer and to be ready for it, which basically would be a future-looking response to say that x and y will be done so that it cannot happen again and, if possible, to refer back to previous exemplary behaviour.

And last of all, I wonder if you can offer the three things that may be recommended one-by-one instead of having to give them away all in one go. So, for example, to agree in the first instance for Mia always to be on lead in public. Can you stop it at that point? Ok then, if necessary to agree to the muzzle suggestion. Muzzles may well be a good idea, but better if one is worn on your say-so, according to judgment and circumstances, rather than to be enforced.  And the final one, to reject unless absolutely necessary, the defra classification.

As I say, I am not an animal behaviourist, a lawyer, a professional of any kind. I also cannot know in this situation all the facts or even to know for sure that Mia is not a danger to the public (I assume she is not!). My only qualification is to have a similar dog, a rescue dog, who can be a bit feisty with other dogs, but nevertheless who deserves a good life and to be understood and managed for his own good. Please take my words with a pinch of salt, as required, and I apologise if anything has been clumsily put. I hope this helps.

Do you have any video clips of your dog playing well in the park with other dogs ?. This would be evidence of her being safe in public.

Thank you for that Kathy, very much appreciated and I will definitely take it on board. Unfortunately I don't have any video evidence of Mia playing with dogs in the park though she has played with plenty. In hindsight I wish I had.

Here's an idea: these people whose dogs Mia has been playing with. Do you know any of them, where they live? Would they be prepared to let you have a very short signed statement simply to confirm that they have seen your dog around plenty of times and that their own dog has played with her in a perfectly friendly manner and that no aggression has been observed. Such statements could act as testimonials. Each testimonial would need the person's name, their address and it would need to be signed and dated. The text could be very short, something like: To whom it may concern, I confirm that my dog <name, type, size> often plays with Mia at <neighbourhood> and I have always observed her to be a friendly and responsibly cared-for dog. I have never seen her exhibit aggression to my dog or any other dog. Or words to that effect.

Maybe this is clutching at straws, maybe it's a rubbish idea, but maybe also it could help tip a balance? So the testimonials could act as character witness evidence for Mia. Obviously, ideally, the people would be strangers, outside knowing them as dog owners in your neighbourhood. Video is a good idea (if you had any) but a court may have difficulty playing it. They may be used to processing signed witness/character statements.

On the police report it said that Mia showed several characteristics of a pit bull terrier. I asked him what these characteristics are.
Here is his response,
The characteristics are set out in the American dog breeders association pit bull breed standard written in 1979. My statement does not need to list them all individually.

Interesting! Have you got a copy of that breed standard?

This is what I could find on the ADBA website? 
http://www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fpid=32

Out of interest where did you get Mia from? If rescue she wouldn't have been rehomed if she fell into 'type' and otherwise if from a breeder do you still have their contact details?
And what is down on her vet record as breed? Would your vet provide a temperament account?

How does Mia get on with your other dog, the Doberman ? You must have some pictures at least of the two of them together

debs0109 wrote:On the police report it said that Mia showed several characteristics of a pit bull terrier. I asked him what these characteristics are.
Here is his response,
The characteristics are set out in the American dog breeders association pit bull breed standard written in 1979. My statement does not need to list them all individually.

Christ alive, this is the sort of ignorance that unfortunately you have to deal with. This moron will be called as an expert witness in court and you'll have to grin and bear it with good grace. Good luck, just focus on getting the dog back rather than the witless incompetence of those involved.

keep fill in please xx

So sorry to hear about Mia I hope she gets home soon and safe.

Seriously you MUSTcontact DDA Watch IMMEDIATELY !
They know their stuff....you say you dont want her to be kept away in kennels but the reality is that if this isnt handled properly, she will be destroyed. Read about BSL...breed specific legislation...the dangerous dogs act 1991....its still not too late to contact this fantastic organisation....do it NOW and tons of luck and hugs xxx

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this, I have also been through this as well with my friend, I was there when they seized. There when they did magistrates and crown. It's so awful, I hope you get Mia back. One thing we did for Riley was get loads of people to write personal statements about Mia, saying how great she is with other dogs etc, Deffo contact the dda watch, your police officer sounds very reasonable unlike ours.it's very unfair. Some people are just damn right awful.

Just noticed you live in devon might of been the same dlo officer as ours.

What was his name?

Will be thinking of you tomorrow Debs, let us know how you get on. Fingers crossed.

Thoughts are with you, wishing you all the luck in the world but hoping you dont need it & your baby is back real soon!! xx

Good luck for tomorrow

So sorry to hear this! I hope all goes well for you and you get her back asap  Keep us updated!