Hillsborough...

i'm sick of hearing about it everyone was fault that day from the polices, clubs and fans!! ffs let the dead rest!! the only people who wasn't at fault was the people who got crushed! but we all know what the big club fans was like back in these days becasue i saw it with my own eye like when then used to come to meadow lane they used to think they could come and take over the ground!!

Sorry Steve but there needs to be answers on this one. Decisions were made on that day that need to be addressed and declared/admitted in the public forum once and for all

everyone was at fault... why did liverpool take so many fans opening gate was the nom back then

i can remember my dad saying he wasn't paying for me an lot of time when there was 1000s fan behind us

For sure i got lifted over turnstyles at grounds as a kid, the issue is it was expected that huge crowds would attend many without tickets, communication on the day was appaling but with this is the cover ups and ass covering

it was fault of the liverpool fans for going without tickets becasue they thought they could take over grounds like they normally did back then but it was also the police fault for opening the gates, we also had a lot of bend copper back then have the liverpool supporter trust or whatever the call ever came out and said sorry to the people who die?

were you there boss man??

it must have been horible and to feel uselessxx

no i know people who went there because it was liverpool vs nottingham forest!

plus i know what man utd. liverpool, leeds utd fans and so on was like!

I dont understand you saying have the supporters trust apologised! You can't blame the fans for the ground set up Christ even now you get fans turning up to games without tickets.

The nature of that match the wrong calls were made by the wrong people at the wrong times. I repeat the issue is the back peddling and arse covering that went on.

With the anniversary this weekend and kick offs delayed until 15:07hrs it was inevitable that will be a lot of extra publicity regarding the ongoing inquest

so an 50,000 or whatever it was going to an 40,000 station i would put money on them telling everyone to go down there... becasue it was like that back now let take over the ground!

i can also remember when man utd broken the gate in meadow lane

i was about 6 and can remember when leeds fan flood our kop and they had to move us another part of the ground

Steve wrote:so an 50,000 or whatever it was going to an 40,000 station i would put money on them telling everyone to go down there... becasue it was like that back now let take over the ground!

And as today the groups that would be of that mindset are the massive minority to the everyday fans, the families, kids, lifelong fans etc

back in the day i share an season ticket with my sister, my dad ever let my sister go to big game becasue he knew what an big games was like!

jshrew wrote:

Steve wrote:so an 50,000 or whatever it was going to an 40,000 station i would put money on them telling everyone to go down there... becasue it was like that back now let take over the ground!

And as today the groups that would be of that mindset are the massive minority to the everyday fans, the families, kids, lifelong fans etc

i'm not blaming the liverpool supporter who bought tickets before the game i'm blaming the fans who thought it didn't matter to buy tickets because that who to blame really

And it happened at many many games and still does ticketless fans are not to blame (though now with intel risk groups wouldnt likely get to the area around a ground without tickets) liklihood is it would have been wholly possible to have got them into the ground without incident, there was space in the other pens

John Alfred Anderson (62), Colin Mark Ashcroft (19),James Gary Aspinall (18), Kester Roger Marcus Ball (16)
Gerard Bernard Patrick Baron (67), Simon Bell (17), Barry Sidney Bennett (26), David John Benson (22)
David William Birtle (22), Tony Bland (22), Paul David Brady (21), Andrew Mark Brookes (26)
Carl Brown (18), David Steven Brown (25), Henry Thomas Burke (47), Peter Andrew Burkett (24)
Paul William Carlile (19), Raymond Thomas Chapman (50), Gary Christopher Church (19)
Joseph Clark (29), Paul Clark (18), Gary Collins (22), Stephen Paul Copoc (20),Tracey Elizabeth Cox (23)
James Philip Delaney (19), Christopher Barry Devonside (18), Christopher Edwards (29)
Vincent Michael Fitzsimmons (34), Thomas Steven Fox (21), Jon-Paul Gilhooley (10), Barry Glover (27)
Ian Thomas Glover (20), Derrick George Godwin (24), Roy Harry Hamilton (34), Philip Hammond (14)
Eric Hankin (33), Gary Harrison (27), Stephen Francis Harrison (31), Peter Andrew Harrison (15)
David Hawley (39), James Robert Hennessy (29), Paul Anthony Hewitson (26), Carl Darren Hewitt (17)
Nicholas Michael Hewitt (16), Sarah Louise Hicks (19), Victoria Jane Hicks (15), Gordon Rodney Horn (20)
Arthur Horrocks (41), Thomas Howard (39), Thomas Anthony Howard (14), Eric George Hughes (42)
Alan Johnston (29), Christine Anne Jones (27), Gary Philip Jones (18), Richard Jones (25)
Nicholas Peter Joynes (27), Anthony Peter Kelly (29), Michael David Kelly (38), Carl David Lewis (18)
David William Mather (19), Brian Christopher Mathews (38), Francis Joseph McAllister (27), John McBrien (18)
Marian Hazel McCabe (21), Joseph Daniel McCarthy (21), Peter McDonnell (21), Alan McGlone (28)
Keith McGrath (17), Paul Brian Murray (14), Lee Nicol (14), Stephen Francis O'Neill (17), Jonathon Owens (18)
William Roy Pemberton (23), Carl William Rimmer (21), David George Rimmer (38),Graham John Roberts (24)
Steven Joseph Robinson (17), Henry Charles Rogers (17), Colin Andrew Hugh William Sefton (23)
Inger Shah (38), Paula Ann Smith (26), Adam Edward Spearritt (14), Philip John Steele (15)
David Leonard Thomas (23), Patrick John Thompson (35), Peter Reuben Thompson (30)
Stuart Paul William Thompson (17), Peter Francis Tootle (21)m, Christopher James Traynor (26)
Martin Kevin Traynor (16), Kevin Tyrrell (15), Colin Wafer (19), Ian David Whelan (19),Martin Kenneth Wild (29)
Kevin Daniel Williams (15), Graham John Wright (17)
JFT96
Rest in Peace
Tbf I wasn't there, only people who were I feel will ever know the truth, these people deserve justice and if it was a member of my family that died, I fight until I got the answers.

other big club behave themselves... why couldn't Liverpool supporters if there was some order like with fans like many other semi finals this would of never happen sorry jules nothing you will say will change my opinion i saw how Liverpool supporters was like back in these days

_Hayley_ wrote:John Alfred Anderson (62), Colin Mark Ashcroft (19),James Gary Aspinall (18), Kester Roger Marcus Ball (16)
Gerard Bernard Patrick Baron (67), Simon Bell (17), Barry Sidney Bennett (26), David John Benson (22)
David William Birtle (22), Tony Bland (22), Paul David Brady (21), Andrew Mark Brookes (26)
Carl Brown (18), David Steven Brown (25), Henry Thomas Burke (47), Peter Andrew Burkett (24)
Paul William Carlile (19), Raymond Thomas Chapman (50), Gary Christopher Church (19)
Joseph Clark (29), Paul Clark (18), Gary Collins (22), Stephen Paul Copoc (20),Tracey Elizabeth Cox (23)
James Philip Delaney (19), Christopher Barry Devonside (18), Christopher Edwards (29)
Vincent Michael Fitzsimmons (34), Thomas Steven Fox (21), Jon-Paul Gilhooley (10), Barry Glover (27)
Ian Thomas Glover (20), Derrick George Godwin (24), Roy Harry Hamilton (34), Philip Hammond (14)
Eric Hankin (33), Gary Harrison (27), Stephen Francis Harrison (31), Peter Andrew Harrison (15)
David Hawley (39), James Robert Hennessy (29), Paul Anthony Hewitson (26), Carl Darren Hewitt (17)
Nicholas Michael Hewitt (16), Sarah Louise Hicks (19), Victoria Jane Hicks (15), Gordon Rodney Horn (20)
Arthur Horrocks (41), Thomas Howard (39), Thomas Anthony Howard (14), Eric George Hughes (42)
Alan Johnston (29), Christine Anne Jones (27), Gary Philip Jones (18), Richard Jones (25)
Nicholas Peter Joynes (27), Anthony Peter Kelly (29), Michael David Kelly (38), Carl David Lewis (18)
David William Mather (19), Brian Christopher Mathews (38), Francis Joseph McAllister (27), John McBrien (18)
Marian Hazel McCabe (21), Joseph Daniel McCarthy (21), Peter McDonnell (21), Alan McGlone (28)
Keith McGrath (17), Paul Brian Murray (14), Lee Nicol (14), Stephen Francis O'Neill (17), Jonathon Owens (18)
William Roy Pemberton (23), Carl William Rimmer (21), David George Rimmer (38),Graham John Roberts (24)
Steven Joseph Robinson (17), Henry Charles Rogers (17), Colin Andrew Hugh William Sefton (23)
Inger Shah (38), Paula Ann Smith (26), Adam Edward Spearritt (14), Philip John Steele (15)
David Leonard Thomas (23), Patrick John Thompson (35), Peter Reuben Thompson (30)
Stuart Paul William Thompson (17), Peter Francis Tootle (21)m, Christopher James Traynor (26)
Martin Kevin Traynor (16), Kevin Tyrrell (15), Colin Wafer (19), Ian David Whelan (19),Martin Kenneth Wild (29)
Kevin Daniel Williams (15), Graham John Wright (17)
JFT96
Rest in Peace
Tbf I wasn't there, only people who were I feel will ever know the truth, these people deserve justice and if it was a member of my family that died, I fight until I got the answers.

i did say that the only people who wasn't at fault that day was the people who die! WHO BOUGHT AN TICKET!

sorry but you all couldn't of seen how the liverpool fans behave back in these days.... they had mind set we are the best and here to take ovr your ground!! with or without tickets!!

We're you there?

yes the police was at blame but Nottingham forest didn't behave like this back then liverpool and forest was probably had an similar fan base!

no but i knew many nottingham forests fans went who was that and was shock how the liverpool fans

i saw many big game at notts county with man utd , leeds utd and liverpool my sister wasn't allow to these game becasue they thought they could take over the grounds

Exactly you weren't there so you like me haven't any proof of anything. Far to controversial Steve, you no more proof of who's to blame than anyone, and blaming Liverpool fans!! At the end of the day I'm aloud an opinion just like you!

hayley did you go football games back in the day at these games? why was my sister banned for going game with man u, leeds u, liverpool?

sorry i saw it i'm not going pretend it didn't happen before Hillsborough...

I went to both Liverpool and Everton games when I was younger, I was 15 at the time of hillsborough.

Here are some of the accusations that South Yorkshire Police peddled, with the actual facts, which disprove them all:

Late? - What time are you supposed to turn up for a football match?

I have been going to football matches for 25 years, and I have literally no idea what time would be considered early, which would be on time and which would be late.

What I do know as a fact is that the match ticket for 15.04.1989 at Hillsborough told people to be in place 15 minutes before kick off. I also know that kick-off was scheduled for 3pm that day, and so when a dangerous crush outside the ground started building up at 2.30pm, I fail to see how those fans could be deemed to be late?

FYI, South Yorkshire Police ordered vehicular traffic to be stopped on Leppings Lane at 2.17pm, such was the density of fans.

Drunk? – Lord Justice Taylor was asked by the Home Office to investigate into events at the Hillsborough stadium on the 15th April 1989.

He had evidence from pubs, members of the public, South Yorkshire Police and the local supermarkets and off license establishments. Lord Justice Taylor concluded that most were “not drunk, nor even the worse for drink”.

He went on to say that “Some officers, seeking to rationalise their loss of control, overestimated the drunkenness in the crowd.”

Ticketless? – The Health & Safety Executive (HSE) studied the CCTV footage after the disaster, in order to try and ascertain how many supporters had entered the Leppings Lane end of the ground.

The capacity of the Leppings Lane end in its entirety was 10,100.

The HSE supplied three estimates of the number of fans who had entered that day based on video evidence. The first number was 9,267 fans were inside; the second ‘best estimate’ was that 9,734 were inside and the maximum number given was 10,124. The problem clearly wasn’t that there were too many fans, it was simply that too many fans were in the central two pens.

These are all facts. Cast iron, totally verified, facts.

I hope people can start to chip away at these long standing lies, and understand the real truth of Hillsborough.

i have said in the topic the only people who are to blame are liverpool fans, the club and the police! but if the Liverpool didn't have this mind set of taking over ground would this happen?

the only people who are not at fault are the people who bought tickets! again i have said this.....

but at this time man u. leeds u and liverpool fan did think they didn't have to buy tickets!! i can remeber before Hillsborough we had to be moved because of liverpool fans

when liverpool came to town we had to be moved to the family stand becasue there was to many of them yet again!

Reports clearly state Steve that ticketless fans was made up by SYP, to blame the fans not themselves, as you said that's your opinion, this is mine.

this stand was spilt in two for away fan & notts fan who used to like sing we got kick out of there becasue liverpool fans took over!!

when i was little becasue i use to stand right in buttom my dad used to allow me to got to these big game becasue my dad and his friend didn't care by wannabe idiots they stood at the top but my sister like to stand with my dad so she was banned from these big game

https://youtu.be/acdX9XH20cw

you will see how crap our kop was like then !!

Like I said Steve you have your opinion and I have mine, I can continue to post and argue my side just like you can but at the end of the day you already said your mind won't be changed, so why would I try!

The fans in any capacity were not to blame! No doubt any club at the time would have had fans behaving in the same manner I have never been on a terrace where the density of fans was not in the middle whether that be behind a goal or along the sides of the ground. I have no doubt that it could have been any club there on the day and those circumstances would have happened to some extent.

As Hayley says even if there were ticketless fans the stand was not over capacity! Things can change so so quick, be it the excitement of kick off or a goal I have been at the front in a fenced terrace when the crowd behind has surged forward. And know how quickly panic sets in to the masses even when there is room to move.

i have seen it with my own eyes i haven't need to read the news papers or listen to new reports on tv to form my own opinion, liverpool, man utd and leeds utd was always like it and it was only matter time something like that happen that why one of many reason england teams was banned from eu cups

But again Steve, IYO!! Not mine.

ok have any of you been a game that could of turn like Hillsborough? because i went to notts vs leeds utd and that was an very close call!! this was 1989 maybe 1988   

this is how the big 3 acted before Hillsborough ask your dads or partners ;)i saw it with my own eye becasue my team never got to semi final it was different.... i have said twice now felt sorry for the people who was crushed by their own fan ( who paid good money for their tickets

Steve nothing you say can change my opinion.

sorry no offend at all but you cleanly have not been to an game like this ( where leeds utd, man utd or liverpool) who wanted to take over over other ground i have been... i feel sorry for then fans that BOUGHT tickets and i hope the one who thought to take over the ground regrate it!!

i think i said sorry about 5 times about the fans who hads ticket!! the people who at fault ate the people who didn't buy a ticket , the clubs and the police!! but let not kid our selfs this used to happen all the time i have sen it with my own eyes

IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE BIG 3 AT THE TIME...

Steve you are talking to someone who from the age of 13 travelled home and away with fans of a team with one of the most prolific risk groups. No there may not have been the numbers at the games but I've still been crushed at the front of a fenced terrace and that was many years after Hillsborough. I have been in so called family areas of grounds that have actually been the segregation between two sets of risk supporters.

But in a lot of profile games local derbys cup games etc that is what happens between fans there has always been an element of risk groups between teams with historical rivalries and scores to settle on and off the pitch

I still say there was enough capacity for the fans ticket or no ticket (we all know ground capacities in the 80's and beyond were well below the attendances that some games got in the 60's/70's). Crowd management was at fault! Issue is the media slurring that took place based on arse covering that put the onus on the fans therefore distracting from the true core issues.

jules you only think about the peopLE WHO DIES!!!!!! LET NOT FOR GET ABOUT HOW MAN UTD. LEEDS UTD AND LIVERPOOL was like back then!! let not make out they didn't do anything wrong!!

i saw with my own eye!!

CLEARLY YOU HAVENT READ THE REPORTS!!! but again your pushing YOUR OPINION!!! Each and every one of us are entitled to OURS and FYI I went to lots of the big games.

sorry hayley pre - Hillsborough..., years when liverpool fans, man utd, leeds utd fans pushing in , jumping the gates, jumping gates my dad has seen them all at it!!

i'm not talking about fanS WHO I BOUGHT A TICKET!

sorry hayley i should have bought it up

Steve wrote:sorry hayley pre - Hillsborough..., years when liverpool fans, man utd, leeds utd fans pushing in , jumping the gates, jumping gates my dad has seen them all at it!!

i'm not talking about fanS WHO I BOUGHT A TICKET!

And I've seen fans doing exactly the same at Shrewsbury, Rotherham, Hereford, Wrexham etc it happened at many games in all divisions let alone at high profile cup games and I still maintain that that incident could have happened no matter what club was in that end that day. once that gate was open fans with and without tickets went in and those without would have been massively in the minority. You could take the ticketless fans completely out of the equation and the opening of the gate would have caused the same surge

ooo you agree me then jules if it was not liverpool fans it would of been man u or leeds u fans!! peope from nottingham fight away from ground

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/derbyshire/7851887.stm