getting us down

Not feeling the best today - I'm feeling really down about Louby, she just never seems to do as she is told, walking her isnt a pleasure, she just pulls, we have tried so many different things to tackle this, at the moment we use a Dogmatic head collar...training to get her to walk to heal is THE most frustrating thing in the world, so that doesnt help my spirits. Yesterday i got home from work and she had pood (not her fault she is on her own all day, and doesnt do it often), on saturday morning (at 6.30, so very early) i came down to find that she had pood in her bed, eaten it then threw it back up again, the smell was the most horrendous thing, i was heaving on the doorstep for a good half hour before i could even tackle it.
My husband isnt that happy about having her anyway, so his tolerance levels are not very high with her, and he is finding it easier to be upstairs watching tv after work rather than be downstairs with Lou cos she is so naughty, jumping on him, biting him. he leaves the house earlier than he needs to, sitting in his van sorting his work rather than just chilling with a coffee in the house.
We took her for 6 weeks training, such a big waste of time, she just barked at the other dogs, the trainers then seemed to find it easier excluding us from the sessions, making out like it was doing her good just being there with the other dogs, even though she was nowhere near them, and not doing any of the exercises.
I know non of this is her fault, she was not socialised at all in her previous home, we found her as a stray.
We do have a 10 holiday coming up to tenerife and Lou is in kennels, im hoping that a bit of a rest from her will help, but i cant help but think that if someone came along and they wanted her, and i knew they would love her as much as i do, then i would let her go. it breaks my heart saying this, but its just how i feel at the moment.

Sorry for the long post and being so maudling. x

They are testing, it takes a lot of patience at times, but its also so rewarding. You really do get out what you put in. Which needs both of you on board because you can't do it all. Big hugs from us, and don't give up Xx

I'm sorry you are feeling down, I know you said you've tried everything with the pulling but just by chance I thought I'd share how I combated Axl's pulling, he still does sometimes but very rarely and I have him to heel 90% of the time soooo here goes

Firstly, I bought a Police dog trainer lead its real leather very strong and quite long with 3 loops at various points so I can shorten or lengthen the lead. My trainer asked us to buy one when we took Axl to training because he said they were perfect for pullers. Anyway secondly, he asked us to do this, when Axl pulls let the lead go slack and yank it up and back in a snapping motion and say "heel" or "close", it doesn't hurt him but it is enough to get him to take notice.

The first time I tried it I only had to do it about 5 times, he didn't take any notice after the first one but after the fifth one he heeled perfectly and I rarely have to do it now. That's what worked for us and sorry if you've already tried it but I thought it was worth a shot letting you know

She's very young still, do you think its worth taking her back to training classes now she's a little older? How long ago did you take her?

Big hugs and I hope things work out for you and Lou x

I havent tried that method if im honest - but its definitely worth a try. Do you have a link for the kind of thing i would need? would we need a harness also?
We had our 6th class last friday - so it was very recent.
The thing is, i wouldnt just give her up to anyone, my worst nightmare is her getting in the wrong hands. x

You don't need a harness, in fact my trainer told me that harnesses are useless for a pulling dog because you can't check it when it he pulls. It's better to have a good collar and lead. I don't have a link i'm afraid but if you go to amazon and google police dog training lead you'll find quite a few on there, mine was from there and it's lasted a year so far, its by pet safe.

That method of training was the only thing that stopped Axl from pulling we tried everything else including the stopping, turning, walking back a bit and turning back again. Just pulling backwards while they are pulling forwards makes it into a game for them so this worked for us, I don't think he liked the snapping noise. I think the trick is to make the leather "snap" so you get a good snapping noise.

I think maybe you should try a different trainer? It does sound like they excluded you rather than helped you with her barking which isn't good!

Also, with her barking at other dogs, have you tried to get her attention when she starts barking with a treat or toy? I got that advice on here and it worked with Axl. He didn't bark but he always used to lunge at other dogs to play so now I get him to sit when I see another dog and keep his attention with a treat Again, you may have tried all this but it worth a shot!

I shall definitely check it out - we do have a normal collar for her - the several harnesses we have bought didnt work for us neither.

She only barked at the dogs when we were training - on walks she is fine, can be ok wth some dogs and not others, but doesnt bark at them. Could have been all the dogs under the same roof. They pick up on all their feelings and if there are quite a few there & can make the situation worse for her.

Yes i have spoke to Caryll on here and she seemed to think that the training was lacking also, and that not all the trainers have many qualifications.

Thanks x

Could part of your problem be the fact that, as you said, she is on her own all day? Staffs are very sociable and she will be missing you which will lead to her being over excited when you do come home and she will be a bit over the top.
They can be a handful and it must be difficult if you are not both on board. You said your OH isn't too keen on her but could he possibly take her with him in his van? He might be surprised at how her companionship could help them form a bond.
My wife wasn't completely convinced she wanted a Staff but Bacchus has won her over and she now adores him.

Yes, that is definitely part or most of the problem, she is on her own too much through the week, the guilt i feel is so bad. So much so that i dont go anywhere on an evening and rarely go out at weekends, because i want to be at home with her. She is extremely excitable at the best of times, so yes when we get in she jumps at us and wants a cuddle, this is fine and fully expected.

I'm not sure if its feasible for her to go with my husband, he does have a van, he fixes all kitchen appliances, so he is in and out of peoples houses all day. Would she be ok if he left her in the van for an hour? certainly not when its hot of course. But its something i can ask him about - maybe even if its just on the odd day?

However, i do have a new job that i start when i come back off holiday. At the moment i work in an office all day, but my new job is as a carer going to peoples home (im studying to be a nurse), so i think i will be around more through the day for her. x

Debs01 wrote:
Firstly, I bought a Police dog trainer lead its real leather very strong and quite long with 3 loops at various points so I can shorten or lengthen the lead.  My trainer asked us to buy one when we took Axl to training because he said they were perfect for pullers.  Anyway secondly, he asked us to do this, when Axl pulls let the lead go slack and yank it up and back in a snapping motion and say "heel" or "close", it doesn't hurt him but it is enough to get him to take notice.  

Please don't do this with a normal collar!!!! You will hurt her neck & windpipe. If you're going to use this sort of heelwork training only do it with a check chain, and make sure you do it properly!

Have a look through this....
https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t3292-check-chains-how-to-use-them

He was fine and it didn't hurt his neck at all. It wasn't the yank that made him stop pulling it was the actual snapping sound, the yank doesn't have to be hard and in Axl's case it wasn't hard at all. He was hurting his neck more by pulling and straining at the lead. I was talked through by my trainer who showed me how to do it properly.

Mrs McFisher wrote:Yes, that is definitely part or most of the problem, she is on her own too much through the week, the guilt i feel is so bad. So much so that i dont go anywhere on an evening and rarely go out at weekends, because i want to be at home with her. She is extremely excitable at the best of times, so yes when we get in she jumps at us and wants a cuddle, this is fine and fully expected.

I'm not sure if its feasible for her to go with my husband, he does have a van, he fixes all kitchen appliances, so he is in and out of peoples houses all day. Would she be ok if he left her in the van for an hour? certainly not when its hot of course. But its something i can ask him about - maybe even if its just on the odd day?

However, i do have a new job that i start when i come back off holiday. At the moment i work in an office all day, but my new job is as a carer going to peoples home (im studying to be a nurse), so i think i will be around more through the day for her. x

Be worth a try and don't forget she is still not fully mature yet so plenty of time to work on different ideas.
BTW she looks like a lovely dog.

Debs01 wrote:He was fine and it didn't hurt his neck at all.  It wasn't the yank that made him stop pulling it was the actual snapping sound, the yank doesn't have to be hard and in Axl's case it wasn't hard at all.  He was hurting his neck more by pulling and straining at the lead. I was talked through by my trainer who showed me how to do it properly.    

I hate to say this, but your trainer was wrong, and wasn't much of a trainer imo! It isn't the snapping sound, it's the sudden stop that teaches them to walk to heel. A check chain (used properly) releases pressure the second the lead goes slack, whereas a collar continues the feeling of strangulation for a few seconds afterwards.

I do agree about the lead - I use a similar one, although it's softex webbing, not leather.

Okay well in that case if I had known I wouldn't have done it I'm quite shocked he didn't tell us that and I won't be recommending it to anyone anymore..

Thanks Reuben, she is a lovely dog, as i say non of this is her fault, at all.

Caryll, i have read the link you gave (and printed it off), thanks for that. The fact that you would only do this for 4 mins to start with makes it seem do-able straight away - not much time to get frustrated when things arent going so good.
x

Debs01 wrote:Okay well in that case if I had known I wouldn't  have done it I'm quite shocked he didn't tell us that and I won't be recommending it to anyone anymore..

Please don't think I was having a pop at you - I wasn't!  I used to run a training club (many years ago) when check chains were the norm & the style of heelwork training was check chain or nothing at all. I used to take newcomers on an introductory lesson to show them how to use & put on the chain correctly, and it's stuck with me over the years. Check chains are often not a good idea with a Stafford because when all's said & done, they're quite a sensitive breed. But sometimes you run out of alternatives & it's worth a try.

I'd always recommend that other methods are tried first, though. The turning around method is often quite quickly picked up by our smart dogs!

Mrs McFisher wrote:Thanks Reuben, she is a lovely dog, as i say non of this is her fault, at all.

Caryll, i have read the link you gave (and printed it off), thanks for that. The fact that you would only do this for 4 mins to start with makes it seem do-able straight away - not much time to get frustrated when things arent going so good.
x

The whole point of training (apart from getting them to behave themselves!) is to have fun & to do something positive every time. Too much can lead to boredom & frustration for you & your dog, so a few short sessions will often teach more than one long session! Always end any training session with something simple that you know your dog can do well! 

Please don't think I was having a pop at you - I wasn't!

Nooo not at all, don't worry I'm not easily offended

I appreciate the advice, I know you are very well informed and trust your advice, I was just shocked that the method I'd been using left my baby feeling "strangled" and the trainer didn't think to tell me that Anyway, luckily Axl heels on command now (usually) so I don't have to check him but, yeah, not impressed with my trainer at all for not telling me that!

Sorry I cannot add further to the advice already given by other posters above, but please check the links below for the police style training lead as suggest:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Quality-police-training-leather-Black/dp/B0095F68RK/ref=sr_1_2?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1377691405&sr=1-2&keywords=police+dog+lead

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Softex-203cm-Adjustable-Training-Police/dp/B0059EMSQ6/ref=sr_1_1?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1377691480&sr=1-1&keywords=police+dog+lead

I'm afraid I can't offer any better advise either but please don't loose heart, you will get there I'm sure

Just wanted to say please don't let this get you down, I am sure this is one of those hiccups and you and Louby will come through the other side!
Pardon me for sticking my nose in here but if your OH could help you out with her a little more it may ease the pressure on you.
Great advice given here! Keep us updated on how you get on with her too

My Oh does help me out sometimes, if he is home from work earlier than me then he will take her for her walk, and he gets up at the weekend for her so i can sleep in (i do the morning walks).
He let me keep her when we found her to keep me happy as i really wanted her. We obviously didnt realise how hard it was going to be, but sending her away or calling the dog warden wasn't an option. He does like her, but his tolerance levels for her are not as good as mine. He would never hurt her.
x

I think you are both wonderful people for giving Louby a home and I have a feeling that her behaviour may settle once you try a new training class which doesn't exclude you from the training but helps you tackle Lou's behaviour. I know it may seem a bit bleak at the moment but she is so very young still and with the right help I'm sure you'll both come out the other side of this with an even more unbreakable bond Baby steps x

As said above , they can really stress you out at times but the rewards they can give you back if you just take that time and patience with them far outweighs any negatives

Does she get walked morning and night, and how long for ?? Just curious as she is alone so long.

Its around 45 mins each time - then at weekends we go to different places so she gets to see abit more of the world.
Plus the door is always open to the garden when we are in.
As i say, i hope things will change for the better in a couple of weeks when i start my new job, i can go and see her throughout the day.

A week on saturday we go away for 10 days, so hopefully a bit of a break from her will help calm things down. I'm not entirely pleased about her being in kennels for so long. The last time (and first time) she was in it was only for 2 days and she came home absolutely buggered. I dont think she slept the whole time she was there, from being nosey and very aware of what was going on around her. So god knows what she will be like after 10 days. x

Mrs McFisher wrote:Its around 45 mins each time - then at weekends we go to different places so she gets to see abit more of the world.
Plus the door is always open to the garden when we are in.
As i say, i hope things will change for the better in a couple of weeks when i start my new job, i can go and see her throughout the day.

Can you make for a longer morning walk to get her really tired ( 1.5 hrs) maybe there is an empty football field or something close by where she can really run her legs off

I dont mean this to sound like it does, but i already get up at 6.30 when i dont start work until 9.00. On a morning i walk her in 2 different places. There is a football field over the road which is enclosed, sometimes it is locked but when its not i take her on there, but its a bit boring as it is literally the size of a football field, so not very big really. There are always plastic bottles on there from the kids playing that she loves to play with. i tried her with 2 balls on ropes, one to throw, then she would bring that back for me to throw the other one, a great game except she scraped and cut her carpal pads on both paws, they were bleeding, so i dont really want to play that at the moment with it being so dry..
The other place is down on the park. i do have a 50ft long line that we use so she does get some freedom.
But it also difficult wanting to take her for longer as its not pleasant with her pulling, even on the long line. i do sometimes let go of it, but not when other dogs are around.
But i dont suppose it would hurt even if it was to get up 15 mins earlier...x

just one other thought ( back to basics ) but what food is she on ?

She is on James Wellbeloved Kibble - she has allergies so she cant have anything else, such as bones and meat etc - although i sometimes get JW pouch food and mix it in with her kibble then freeze it in her kong.

Mrs McFisher wrote:She is on James Wellbeloved Kibble - she has allergies so she cant have anything else, such as bones and meat etc - although i sometimes get JW pouch food and mix it in with her kibble then freeze it in her kong.

Think the food is fine . Sorry just thinking back to basics if we have missed out something really obvious producing hyperactivity

No thank you Dave for your advice.
We will get there im sure - but even now i know im finishing work in half an hour, im dreading going home to walk her - i sit here hoping my OH gets home before me so that he walks her instead. I hate feeling like this as i would love nothing better than to go for lovely long walks with her. x

Mrs McFisher wrote:No thank you Dave for your advice.
We will get there im sure - but even now i know im finishing work in half an hour, im dreading going home to walk her - i sit here hoping my OH gets home before me so that he walks her instead. I hate feeling like this as i would love nothing better than to go for lovely long walks with her. x

Have you tried a Canny Collar , we had , and still have fantastic results with ours for Tommy for very much the same reasons as you , but then other members have used it and only had trouble

No i havent tried one of those - it seems we are forever spending money on things that dont work, then they get wasted. We actually have a box of stuff that we are planning on taking to The Dog Trust.
Sorry im moaning now, and i dont mean to. x

Mrs McFisher wrote:No i havent tried one of those - it seems we are forever spending money on things that dont work, then they get wasted. We actually have a box of stuff that we are planning on taking to The Dog Trust.
Sorry im moaning now, and i dont mean to. x

You moan away , it's 1 of the reasons we are here, and if you get down then we are around to listen . All I can say with the canny collar is my own personal experience . I can control Tommy much easier than my daughter but she often takes the easy way out . Regardless the fact is when he wears it he doesn't pull or if he tries a very gentle pull back puts him back on course and he has many more manners with other dogs as he knows its pointless trying to lunge at them , in fact he doesn't even growl.

We are going to a big Staffy walk at the weekend and we will be using the canny collar just to keep him calmer.

More expense but if it happens to be the one that works for you it's money well spent , if its not then feel free to come back and launch a torrent of abuse at me , you can have that one me

Remember you're not alone out there, we've all had times when we were down and understand that just being able to talk to someone helps. I'm retired but I was so exhausted getting up during the night ( 3am) to take Bacchus out for toileting that I started suffering depression and nearly gave him back to the breeder, when my wife came down one morning and found me in tears. My wife talked me out of it and started helping out, although she is definitely not a morning person, and within a couple of weeks I was back to normal.
I'm so glad I stuck with him because now he is now my constant companion and makes me laugh out loud at his personality.But it's this tremendous character trait which makes them a handful at times so feel free to moan away.

I think every one of us here has had a moan or two (or three). It sometimes helps to get your own mind in order if you tell others about what you're going through.

Sometimes we can help, sometimes we can't. But we can always listen & sympathise!

I cant offer much more than what has already been said, but i do feel for you and im sure it will all work out in the end. You clearly love him very much!!

Aw you are all so kind -bringing tears to my eyes - think i need that holiday NOW, ha ha...
But i have to say, when i got home last night, i took Lou for a really good walk, and it was a good un, and i felt better when i went to bed, i think it really did help getting it off my chest on here.
So thank you all very much - see you again same place next month ha ha xxx

I feel for you, it can be very frustrating when you feel you are getting nowhere. I use haltis with the girls which are similar to the canny collars when I take them out otherwise my arms would be pulled out their sockets. Hope you enjoy your holiday