4 month pup too dominant

Hi
I am new to this forum.
I am posting because I am a new Staffie owner, a 4 month girl, Edie. She is a pedigree Blue Staffie. I got her from a KC registered breeder when she was 9 weeks old. She is very intelligent, confident and loving.
I started socialising her immediately I got her, at puppy classes. Now she is about 17 weeks old. We have been going daily to the park, as well as on busses and trains, pubs and shops. She seems to be very much admired and loved by everyone.
She is very confident as I said, and bounds up to every single dog and wants to play with them. I am starting to get a bit anxious though. This is because she plays well if the dog is an adult, and a lot bigger than her, but if the other dog is a pub, or a smaller young dog, she will play but then start to get dominant. She is very keen on rough play but it always goes beyond that, she has to get the other dogs collar, or ears, and get them on their back, sometimes with too much teeth and gums showing for my liking. And I never get to see her submitting on her back. She is also very noisy during this which I know is normal but it is a lot to take in. 99% of other dog owners dont seem to mind as they know she is playing it seems to be getting more intense. I do take her away and put her on the lead, but is there anything else I should be doing. I thought socialising her as much as possible would make her confident BUT good with other dogs and new situations but I feel she is getting overconfident.

The reason I bought a pup from a breeder rather than a rescue staff was so that I could help mold her behaviour, so that she would be a joy to walk, and be an ambassador for the breed, not a tearaway!!

I am worried that when she is older she will hurt another dog....

she isn't being dominant that's how staffies play.

they pin each other, bite faces and ears, it's all teeth and noise with them.

Aslong as the other dog is happy in play then leave her to play

No, the other dogs start off ok, but then it escalates and I can see the other dogs start to get anxious. I read young dogs playing take turns to be the submissive one, the one who is at a disadvantage in a play fight, but Edie always has to have the upper hand, she pushes it too far until I have to take her away.

Firstly, please don't let her just bound up to other dogs without asking the other owner first if they're ok with it, or without introducing the dogs calmly - maybe walk them side by side on lead for a few minutes.

Secondly, she will play rough if she is allowed to - that's the way Staffords play, I'm afraid. If you feel it's too rough, just do what you're doing now - put her on lead for a while until she calms down a bit. It might help to use a trigger word for stopping the rough play, something like "Enough" or even "Leave" when you seperate them so that she knows what's happening.

It probably isn't a good idea to let her get rough with smaller dogs - she really won't know her own strength yet!

Evie wrote:No, the other dogs start off ok, but then it escalates and I can see the other dogs start to get anxious. I read young dogs playing take turns to be the submissive one, the one who is at a disadvantage in a play fight, but Edie always has to have the upper hand, she pushes it too far until I have to take her away.

If the other dog looks anxious, or is trying to get away & can't, then by all means step in & calm her down.

Dogs don't really 'take turns' at being either dominant or submissive - they just play! One will pin the other down & then the pinned one might scramble up & do the same to the first dog, but it isn't taking turns, it's just the way the play turns out.

Thank you
I'm learning as I go... I do keep her away from smaller dogs now but we do walk her around the park offlead. I mainly walk around the park with a new friend, a lady with 5 rescue staffies, and Edie walks very nicely with them as they are all adult dogs, one, a two year old, plays with her by playing chase which is great as there is no mouthing involved.

I never let her play with the other dog if the owner is not into it but so often they encourage play with her as she looks so cute, and then I see them fidgeting after a while as she gradually revvs up (she usually starts off very gently with just little sniffs)

I know what you mean!

Just keep an eye on her & be prepared to step in if it gets a bit too hot-blooded!

Caryll wrote:

Evie wrote:No, the other dogs start off ok, but then it escalates and I can see the other dogs start to get anxious. I read young dogs playing take turns to be the submissive one, the one who is at a disadvantage in a play fight, but Edie always has to have the upper hand, she pushes it too far until I have to take her away.

If the other dog looks anxious, or is trying to get away & can't, then by all means step in & calm her down.

Dogs don't really 'take turns' at being either dominant or submissive - they just play! One will pin the other down & then the pinned one might scramble up & do the same to the first dog, but it isn't taking turns, it's just the way the play turns out.

Oh ok, I read it in a dog book yesterday, that pups instinctively take turns at being the aggressor to ensure that play continues....

So this is all normal stuff for staffies then?
I am afraid she will carry on this way as she goes into adolescence but will she naturally calm down and put her teeth away? Today her teeth were bared in a scary way

Yes, it's normal. When they play, their mouths will be open wide & yes, the teeth will show! As long as all she's doing is mouthing (and drooling all over the other poor dog!) then there's no problem at all.

Aggressive snarling is totally different, and will normal result in the other dog growling as well - you'll notice a distinct difference in body language.

yes, she runs around with her mouth permanently open hoping to get something in it, like a grey shark, like jaws...
but today it was a definite snarl, a different look, ears flat back etc. I am going to have to monitor this as it may have been a one off but it was definitely more aggressive

She may have read something in the other dog's body language that she didn't like.

Now that you're aware, you'll be better placed to see any changes in behaviour & you can step in quickly to stop any nonsense!

Rough play is normal for them and can at times sound and look like it isn't playing. As long as both handlers are okay it's just natural behaviour. Here is a link on body language that will help you know what to look for

http://staffy-bull-terrier.co.uk/dogbodylanguage.html

Thank you so much for your help. Will this calm down with age?

To an extent, yes.

You'll have to bear in mind, though, that staffords are known to play rough - and they're often very vocal with it!

A little yes. Suki is about 2 1/2 now but she still rough plays every day but isn't as persistant as she was.

my husband was so embarrassed when she started playing roughly with another dog that he walked a mile ahead of me!

Do you go to any classes? I ask because it is a good way to get her used to playing but have the controlled situation and a handler there that can teach you how to step in. As they get older they can potentially get too big for their boots so its better to know how to handle it now.

We did puppy socialisation classes and are booked in to go to puppy training classes in the park in the new year...

Evie wrote:We did puppy socialisation classes and are booked in to go to puppy training classes in the park in the new year...

great, that will help you both a lot. Enjoy!

Caryll wrote:To an extent, yes.

You'll have to bear in mind, though, that staffords are known to play rough - and they're often very vocal with it!

I've had some foster staffies that sound like they're having proper fights - real shrill noises and deep growls interspersed - then I rush to the next room to find them sprinting round in circles with a rubber toy.

Noise goes with staffy play.

She'll probably calm down. Loki had no manners with other dogs, he'd jump all over them without even sniffing them, and it'd annoy so many dogs. When they started getting annoyed, I stopped the playing so it didn't escalate. Now when he meets dogs, he'll lower his body and just calmly sniff them until it's OK to play. So probably in time she'll learn that she needs to be a bit calmer if the other dog doesn't like it. They do play rough though, and the noises are all normal.

Edie lowers her body like that and moves very slowly and gently around children which is fantastic, she never jumps at them. This is great as there are a hell of a lot of children in our area

Evie wrote:Edie lowers her body like that and moves very slowly and gently around children which is fantastic, she never jumps at them. This is great as there are a hell of a lot of children in our area

Lucky you, Loki once ran after a running kid and nipped him . He didn't inherit the nanny dog characteristics from his Staff side, obviously . He is way better now though, a boy ran past us the other day right next to him and he didn't react at all. Edie sounds like she's doing well though, in time she'll pick it up, she's just excited about meeting dogs that she forgets manners

Thats only puppy play . My pup "Maggie" was trying to out dominate me. I put a stop to this by not letting her win tug-a-war *rope toy* (play tug-a-war as much as you want but take toy away after and ALWAYS win!). I shown my dog that i had the power to out dominate her, now she is so submissive with any human and any dog. It's worked a treat! Some dogs take advantage of Maggie being overly submissive, but i do the growling in those situations   . Once you notice your the dominant one, you can let your dog win 50% of the time Hope this helps anyone who has a dominant puppy.

NyandEm, again thank you for your post. Having the "power to dominate" your dog will only create fear. Excessively submissive behaviour isn't the sign of a content and confident dog, and I would be encouraging her to become confident and happy in herself, personally. As mentioned in the other post, dominance techniques really don't have a place in modern, humane behaviour. Leadership, guidance and obedience are a big YES. But alpha rolls, growling at dogs an general dominance teach them nothing, other than to fear you. Which makes no sense. Dogs aren't wolves, they're heavily domesticated and require very different training, they're often sensitive and loyal to people.. When have you ever seen a wolf want to snuggle up on the sofa, or follow a human around? Dogs don't need handling with kid gloves, but they deserve respectful training.

My 14 week old staff is the same I had a 7 month old staff here (which is my.friends) playing with Loki and they were hanging off each others faces grabbing the back legs and jumping all over each other!!

At first I was so worried, but when loads of people were so.excepting of him, it made it at easier for me to calm down, he got pinned by a whippet the.other day!! And teeth were out, but I felt so confident it was just playing.