Worst biting ever! What am I doing wrong?

Ok, if someone could please tell me where I'm going wrong I would greatly appreciate it because last night was the worst biting episode so far. Basically, I was at work all day (my husband and kids were at home though). When I came home I didn't make any eye contact and ignored her to start with until she was sitting calmly at my feet. I then praised her and fussed her. She had not long woken up and so was beginning to get very very excited. I then went about cooking in the kitchen, totally not taking any notice of her and she just attacked my feet and legs. I did what someone mentioned and shook her by the scruff of the neck saying "no" very firmly,which to be fair, did make her let go but then she just lunged back at me. After saying "no"(and really meaning it) a couple of times (which made no difference) I then put her in isolation in the bathroom for about half a minute to a minute. When I let her out I just calmly carried on with what I was doing ignoring her completely. She then just lunged at my legs and feet again. It seems that no matter what I do it makes no difference. She clearly doesn't take me seriously and I don't know why because I do feel I come across calm and assertive. If anything I think it provokes and excites her even more. She is totally fearless and gets into a frenzy with me. I'm not even entirely sure if she's just playing because she has this wild look in her eyes. I don't know if I should have done this but a couple of times I pinned her down on her side just to calm her down a bit. When she got up she skulked off for about a minute and then just lunged back at my feet and legs again as though nothing happened! Its incredible. She just won't get the message. I can't ignore her because I wasn't paying any attention to her in the first place! What makes it worse is that she won't do any of this to my husband!! Just me in particular and the kids a bit. A bit later on I was sitting down on the sofa and she tried to get up to sit on my lap. I gently kept pushing her back down without looking at her and this went on and on and on but this time she was biting my hand each time I pushed her down. I then had to reprimand her by saying "no" firmly but this just seemed to provoke her all over again! I was obviously conscious of the fact that I didn't want to end things on a bad note, so when she was eventually calm I got her to sit for me then praised her and gave her a cuddle. But it did leave me feeling a bit despondent because I don't want to start breaking down the bond we are gaining but I can't let her get away with it. Help!

Oh boy we have days like that sometimes, he can be as good as gold on one day then for whatever reason he can turn into devil dog and do exactley what you have described, we well I has he only does this to me and my son just keep being consistant which is pushing off a NO and then ignoring if that doesn't work we then isolate him for 10 mins or more until he does calm down. They do like to push the boundaries sometimes and it can be very weary but we carry on it wont last forever, they will get there. xx Hope she behaves better for you today. x

I hope so too. I note you said you isolate yours for about 10mins. Thats far longer than I do, but then I'm putting her in the bathroom with the light off. She usually starts crying and scratching at door after about half a minute. Should I be leaving her in there for longer?

This is going to sound like a really odd question, but were you wearing new shoes?
I have a pair of boots that Molly hates with a passion, she will chase my feet, attack them bite them anything she can when I have them on.
One thing I'd suggest is maybe sound aversion. A loud clap as soon as she gets too aggressive, or a loud high pitched yelp. It may just be an off day, but it may also be a case of going back to basics.

You did well when she wanted to get up on your lap, always praise her when she's calmed down, she'll soon learn that she doesn't get what she wants when she's all angry and noisy, but if she sits and waits patiently she'll get something nice and enjoyable.

claire wrote:I hope so too. I note you said you isolate yours for about 10mins. Thats far longer than I do, but then I'm putting her in the bathroom with the light off. She usually starts crying and scratching at door after about half a minute. Should I be leaving her in there for longer?

Yeah we leave him for that long because if we let him out when he whines say after a min he just starts all over again so after about 10 he has usually calmed down and stopped whining and 9 times outta 10 has gone to sleep. So I can chill before the next round!! ~

claire wrote:I hope so too. I note you said you isolate yours for about 10mins. Thats far longer than I do, but then I'm putting her in the bathroom with the light off. She usually starts crying and scratching at door after about half a minute. Should I be leaving her in there for longer?

Do you let her out while she's still whining? If so, leave her until sje's quiet. If it takes 5 minutes or more then so be it.

Hmmm, might seem an unrelated question, but what are you feeding her & who gives her the food?

Actually I have been letting her out probably a bit too soon. Not long enough to calm down properly although when she comes out the bathroom she is very calm (for about a minute). I will wait until she isn't whining anymore. As to food, I am feeding her Wainwrights puppy food 4 times a day and its mostly me that feeds her though we all make sure we do it. I even make her sit nicely before I give her her food and I'm always sticking my hands in her food bowl so as to make sure she doesn't get possessive and growly over her food.

Is Wainrights high in protein? I don't feed dry, so I'm not up on the protein content of the various makes. If it is, you might want to look at another good dry food that is lower in protein as high amounts make a dog very hyper. Fish4dogs I would have thought is lower (as it's fish) and might be worth a try.

I personally wouldn't scruff her. She'll either see that as a sign of agression from you which will frighten her & possibly make her fight harder to get away, which rather defeats the object! I'd stick with a loud, deep "NO!" and turn away. Followed, of course, by the isolation if she ignores it.

If it helps, Dempsey was so like your girl! It was a constant battle to avoid being bitten for the first 8 or 9 months - and being that bit bigger than a staff, it wasn't very nice! The good news is that he hardly ever does it now, and even when he does, it isn't hard & he'll stop when he's told. There's light at the end of the tunnel..........

I don't know if Wainwrights is high in protein. I will check. I was told to scruff her when shes got hold of me and won't let go rather than trying to prise her jaw open which to be fair does make her release me but your comment that it might frighten her has quite the opposite effect. She goes for me even more! I will though, keep saying NO and turn my back on her and if she still persists I will put her in bathroom in the dark for a good 5 mins or more. So long as theres light at the end of the tunnel I don't mind. I'll keep battling on. I just don't understand why she does this to me and not my husband. So annoying!

Maybe she sees you as the one she has to challenge?

Why do you leave her in the dark?

No particular reason why the lights not on. Should I leave it on then? Also what do you mean by "maybe she sees me as the one to challenge"? Do you think she may consider me a bit weak?

No, maybe she's a dominant girl & sees you as the one she needs to challenge to be top dog!

I'd leave the light on, or she may end up relating darkness with being told off & you won't be able to get her to settle at night!

Fair point re the light. I will leave it on. With regard to the challenging me bit, I actually do feel she is challenging me more than playing with me. I guess all I can do is keep doing what I'm doing, keeping calm and consistent and hope she eventually gets the message and backs down.

Incidentally, my husband was trying to get involved when she kept biting me but I told him not to because it wasn't helping me. Was that right?

Yes & no! If she literally won't stop, then he should step in. Otherwise, it's between you & her, and if other people keep intervening she won't really learn.

thanks Caryll for your advice. I will be put new plan into action and see what happens tonight! Incidentally, you didn't comment about the fact that I had pinned her down a couple of times until she relaxed a bit. Is that a no no aswell?

I no u wont beleive this but ALL of what u have said sounds typicall behaviour of a feisty little stafford puppy. Just keep up what your doing and stay consistant and she WILL get better, promise x Re pinning her, u really dont need to be physical with her at all, you voice eyes and body language will be enough x

thanks very much

Molly used to get pinned down, and she did learn. It's not the best idea and I would advise against it, but it got to the point where it was our only option. This was before I found this forum though!

Pinning down is a last resort. It's forcible submission & it's best to use other methods if at all poss.

thanks, will bear that in mind.

Plus if you have a typical, lucifer-like stafford puppy with horrible sharp teeth and a wild plaful personality then pinning them down or scruffing them will only encourage the behaviour, they will see it as you retaliating to their physical play and think your joining in. Or they will go the opposite way and act fearful (doesn't sound like this is your girl though, think shes the former rather than the latter!). My youngest girl was a nightmare with nipping until she was 6/7months old, just be consistent its all you can do. Ignore her to the point where shes worked herself up into a frenzy and just isn't listening then its off to timeout I'm afraid!!!

When Blondy went through the nipping stage nipping anything that moved my feet biting my calf hands and arms telling her no on its own wouldn't work so i started scruffing her but i had a calm energy not exited so she knew i was not playing e.g. if we on the settee and she started nippin i'd calmly scruff her and place her off the settee. when i walked and she chased y feet i'd turn around and walk towards her making her back up (claiming my space) and she doesn't do it anymore at all just like Taz doesn't I wouldn't say me scruffing them like i did made them afraid of me at all but you have to do it correctly. I did suggest scruffing but not the shaking part and i wouldn't suggest shaking either. when she acts like it again and if she hurts you yelp and move away, if she doesn't hurt but still does it remove her from the situation into isolation, if she holds on and wont let go scruff her and remove her from the situation, you really have got to stick to it I know its hard i know they sulk and give them puppy eyes. Also no rough playing of any kind with anyone with her and if she takes it too rough then remove her.

You know claire you said the magic word "fearless "and thats a typical stafford trait and one to remember. Your girl is testing you and doing what pups do she has not long since left her litter mates were she would of enjoyed a free for all she needs to learn whats acceptible and whats not. I dont beleive in isolating your dog away from the family it serves no purpose and just makes them more anxious time out is good but in a corner or cage were she not seperated. At this stage she will need loads of toys and if she does this offer her a toy if she still does this time out and no if she wont give in and thats typical of the breed then put your hand over her muzzle so she cant bite at you say no then release she will then associate no with constriction and back away.
Im sure your little angel > will have sussed out the family and has already given respect to your hubby as to her he is the strongest so you may be a challenge to her but as shes so young I think its just hard play and nothing plays harder than a stafford puppy.
Keep at it try to stay calm they do get excited at fuss but shes only a baby and will need guidence what shes doing is not naughty in her eyes good luck with her

Great advice gem!

Cornish-Muscle wrote:One thing I'd suggest is maybe sound aversion. A loud clap as soon as she gets too aggressive, or a loud high pitched yelp.

I'd definatly go with the yelp. It works wonders with Logan if he's geting nippy, plus its what the litter mates would do! It helps them understand how hard they bite.

A yelp doesn't impress Dempsey! He ignores it completely. He did with his littermates too.

Molly was sold to us at 6 weeks old, she never had that essential 2 weeks that a lot have, the yelp never worked with her, to be honest, no matter what we tried she was a total pain in the *. Now a days if you actually get bitten and pull your finger away and say ow, she does stop and look up as if to say "Sorry, it was an accident"

A bit of patience and some time and they all get there in due time!

Thanks everyone. Its now been a couple of days and I won't say she's stopped entirely but she is gradually getting the message. So far I haven't found the need to put her in isolation. What seems to work (temporarily) is that when shes hanging off my slippers or trouser leg I say "no" firmly and pick her up and hold her out in front of me and look her straight in the eye whilst saying no again. She immediately looks submissive and averts my eyes. When I put her down she tends to leave me alone (if only for a short while). Also when that doesn't work I shake a tin full of old batteries right at the time that she's biting me and she scarpers. I do find though that when she knows she can't bite me she'll then bark and start to run off. I actually don't let her get away with it so I follow her calmly and then she just submits to me. So I think I might be getting there!

Great news.
I think sometimes they just like to try and see what they can get away with. They are a cheeky breed. Keep up the good work and great to hear she's getting better

Sounds like you're getting through! Fantastic!

get a cage for her and get her used to sleeping in it, once she's started sleeping in it u can use it as a holding pen for when shes naughty and needs a time out lol marley was the same he was a little terror when he was only a few months old but since i got the cage and used it for naughty time and sleepy time he's been ace i evan told my freind to get one when he got his puppy a few weeks ago and he's told me he's seen an improvement big time in his aggressiveness and biting and said its calmed him down alot as when he statrs biting and chewing and gets into a frenzy attacking everything he gets picked up and put in the cage untill he stops crying and calms down then and only then is he let out because if you let them out when there winging they think that if they cry for long enough you will let them out just dont give in and make sure they no who wears the pants in the house

billy was like this when he was a pup defo a staff thing he is now best buddys with my mrs it just takes time stay with it .

Hi Dan

Thats interesting because I do use the crate for Winnie. She sleeps in it every night with the door open in the utility room and it has been great for helping with the housetraining. However I've always been advised never to use it as a kind of punishment because otherwise she'll feel that every time she's put in there, you're punishing her. For instance, at the weekend I had lots of family over for lunch. While we were sitting eating I locked her in the crate making sure she could see us all and she was quite happy to do that. If I was to then lock her in there everytime she was going nutty, wouldn't she start to resent it?

It's how you do it! Just be very calm (not angry - if necessary take a few deep breaths before you pick her up) and place her quietly in the crate. It's just for time out, not punishment - you all need it, including her!

Oh, well perhaps I'll try that then. Thanks