I just found out there's no such thing as an English staffy

I am part of a Staffy page of fb and there is a discussion asking people if they prefer American or English staffies and this is what someone called Julie English just posted There is no such thing as an English staffy. I posted Oh really funny that my dogs Vet must not know anything then.

Bugger me i thought there were English staffies, now i know there's not.

Not very good at geagraphy............sorry

Janey wrote:Not very good at geagraphy............sorry

Me either but even i know Stafforshire is in England, guess i shoud just say staffordshire from now on lol.

I think I no the site your on about some people think they no everything and no nothing

their is only one sbt.....

Well, there's only 1 staffordshire bull terrier, originating from England. The american staffs, however, do seem to be a bit dofferent to the ones in the UK, but I think sometimes it's just how they're presented for the show ring. American show people love to trim every last stray hair from their staffs, whereas here (unless it has changed over the last few years) we only really trim the tail.

You could say, in fact, that all staffies, the world over, are English Staffies!

They could have been referring to the whether people prefer Staffordshire Bull Terriers or American Staffordshire Terriers. Two different breeds although closely related.

No way!! ALL those things I've ever read are all wrong! Who would have thought it!!

Stevie B what things have you read that are wrong?

thats just crazy where do they think staffordshire is?? staffys aint nothing but all english!!

I was takin the pee!! They can come from nowhere else but England!! They are called the STAFFORDSHIRE bull terrier!!

I know what your saying JayKay but the Amercian Staffordshire Terrier is the Show equivilent of the American Pitbull Terrier (whole new topic). The APBT isn't recognised by the American Kennel Club but the AmStaff is. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is also recognised by the AKC but they are considered two different breeds. Very similar but the Amstaff is a bigger than the average Staffie.

The reference to Staffordshire in the AmStaffs name is made as a reference/tribute the part of England that is widely associated with the dogmen of the past and many famous dogs despite the fact that the dogs were all over the UK Staffordshire is a special place for the original Pit dogs of which Staffordshire Bull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terrier share their ancestory.

Steve posted a good video showing the differences between the two breed:



And as Scott said there is only one Staffordshire BULL Terrier.https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t272-differences-between-staffordshire-bull-terrier-and-american-staffordshire-terriers

I hear you Stevie B and understand what you mean but there is a separate breed calle American Staffordshire Terrier (with no Bull between Staffordshire and Terrier). It is recognised by the AKC and many other kennel clubs just not here. The main reason for that is that in the UK it is considered the show equivilent of the APBT so it's a no go here with BSL.

I posted above why I think the Americans have Staffordshire in the name. They were once the same breed but as you'd expect the Americans go for bigger is better lol. But we know that's not true

yeh im with you there mate,but our staffy is english right??

i think im right as to theres actually no KC recognized Irish Staffies either

It certainly is and the original.

Mark B your right - but that's a whole new thread lol

lets just say we have the original then!!

I didn't think there was such thing as an 'American Staffordshire Terrier'! I was always under the impression this was another name for the Pit Bull Terrier

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staffordshire_Bull_Terrier


that explians the origins and other breeds such as the american staffordshire terrier hope this helps

scroll down to history it explians how the term bull terrier comes from the fact the dogs were bread to attack bulls to tenderise the meat! also that staffords where imported to the states ..............interesting stuff

markeB wrote:i think im right as to theres actually no KC recognized Irish Staffies either

i`ve been asked a few times is blue an irish staff because of his size........if you contact a breeeder selling irish staffs,more often that not they`ll be pitbulls

They'll either be pits or one of several breeders in ireland who say they are breeding the staff back to its original shape & fitness. There's some dispute about that, though!

Caryll wrote:They'll either be pits or one of several breeders in ireland who say they are breeding the staff back to its original shape & fitness. There's some dispute about that, though!

I think that's spot on - the only thing i'd add is that some/quite a few of the Irish lines also have some Bull Terrier Blood in them as they were bred to working ability rather than show - therefore pedigrees and conformation to a breed standard weren't high on the list of priorities. Breeding for work rather than show goes back to the fundementals of what Caryll was saying about breeding a original bull and terrier.

On another forum I use (a bully one) there's a guy who has a so-called 'original' type (staffordshire) bull terrier. I put the staffordshire bit in brackets cause the dog doesn't look like either!

It's a rangy, almost whipetty looking dog. Very fit & obviously agile, but nothing at all like either the original bull & terriers or the likes of Gentleman Jim, Crib or Rosa. He says that his dog is the true bull & terrier & nothing else will do.

It's all a matter of opinion.

Any pics??

He & I don't see eye to eye on a few things (well, most things, actually!), but if I can get a pic I will.

Here's a couple of pics of so-called old tyme bull & terriers.

i can assure you that my staffy's are scottish born and bread , lmao although through grandparents they could play for england and ireland

niff wrote:i can assure you that my staffy's are scottish born and bread , lmao although through grandparents they could play for england and ireland

the black/brindle dog above just looks like a lurcher to me ,

niff wrote:i can assure you that my staffy's are scottish born and bread , lmao although through grandparents they could play for england and ireland

if they`ve drank a glass of guinness they can play for ireland lol

pmsl dakota prefers so sneek a lick of the vody and coke sneeky lil russian

niff wrote:the black/brindle dog above just looks like a lurcher to me ,

i agree niff looking at the pic it looks like a pikey holding him to so my guess would be breed for a diff reason if you know what i mean

Agree to me they both look like gorgeous cross breeds! x

I agree the black dog looks nothing like a proper Staffy, however the below picture does look like how a Bull Terrier looked many years ago - Could very well be a 'proper' bullie just a very badly bred one.

I've had several bullies over the years who really did look like crosses but were just poorly bred and there are a couple of breeders in Wales who purposely breed them like the above photo.

They are supposedly trying to breed bullies as to how they looked 50+ years ago.

My old rescue girl Drama had the 'old style' shaped head - I was convinced she was a cross until I managed to trace her breeder - I was shocked when I found out lol!!

Personally I prefer both Staffies and Bull Terriers as they look today.

I personally dont think the first one looks lurcher like to me.

karmadog wrote:I agree the black dog looks nothing like a proper Staffy, however the below picture does look like how a Bull Terrier looked many years ago - Could very well be a 'proper' bullie just a very badly bred one.

I've had several bullies over the years who really did look like crosses but were just poorly bred and there are a couple of breeders in Wales who purposely breed them like the above photo.

They are supposedly trying to breed bullies as to how they looked 50+ years ago.

My old rescue girl Drama had the 'old style' shaped head - I was convinced she was a cross until I managed to trace her breeder - I was shocked when I found out lol!!

Personally I prefer both Staffies and Bull Terriers as they look today.

The dogs pictured are, in fact, the result of breeders trying to breed back the old style bull & terrier dogs, not staffords. The people who breed these dogs say that both Staffords & Bullies have been bred too far away from the original bull & terrier.

Stevie b wrote:I was takin the pee!! They can come from nowhere else but England!! They are called the STAFFORDSHIRE bull terrier!!

lol that's what i said in the reply. but hey what would i know i'm not an expert unlike the person who posted it.

Caryll wrote:On another forum I use (a bully one) there's a guy who has a so-called 'original' type (staffordshire) bull terrier. I put the staffordshire bit in brackets cause the dog doesn't look like either!

It's a rangy, almost whipetty looking dog. Very fit & obviously agile, but nothing at all like either the original bull & terriers or the likes of Gentleman Jim, Crib or Rosa. He says that his dog is the true bull & terrier & nothing else will do.

It's all a matter of opinion.

I think the only Bull is what he's talking. The bottom one looks like what we call a "Pig Dog"- my brother used to have one called Kiff, they are used for hunting pigs here(well duh as if the name didn't say it alll ).

I will always call mine an English Staffordshire Bull Terrier who was born and bred in Australia but with bloodlines back to the original UK ones. I wonder can i get Harley a dual citizenship passport now

HazelJ wrote:

Caryll wrote:On another forum I use (a bully one) there's a guy who has a so-called 'original' type (staffordshire) bull terrier. I put the staffordshire bit in brackets cause the dog doesn't look like either!

It's a rangy, almost whipetty looking dog. Very fit & obviously agile, but nothing at all like either the original bull & terriers or the likes of Gentleman Jim, Crib or Rosa. He says that his dog is the true bull & terrier & nothing else will do.

It's all a matter of opinion.

I think the only Bull is what he's talking. The bottom one looks like what we call a "Pig Dog"- my brother used to have one called Kiff, they are used for hunting pigs here(well duh as if the name didn't say it alll ).

I will always call mine an English Staffordshire Bull Terrier who was born and bred in Australia but with bloodlines back to the original UK ones. I wonder can i get Harley a dual citizenship passport now

you could probs get harley a house ,,,, from the council ,,,,,and some sort of benefit before someone actually born in the uk and entitled to it lol

HazelJ wrote:

Caryll wrote:On another forum I use (a bully one) there's a guy who has a so-called 'original' type (staffordshire) bull terrier. I put the staffordshire bit in brackets cause the dog doesn't look like either!

It's a rangy, almost whipetty looking dog. Very fit & obviously agile, but nothing at all like either the original bull & terriers or the likes of Gentleman Jim, Crib or Rosa. He says that his dog is the true bull & terrier & nothing else will do.

It's all a matter of opinion.

I think the only Bull is what he's talking. The bottom one looks like what we call a "Pig Dog"- my brother used to have one called Kiff, they are used for hunting pigs here(well duh as if the name didn't say it alll ).

I absolutely agree & that's exactly what the dog is...........the guy's user name was 'hogdog'. My beef with these dogs is that they are also used for illegal activities - fighting/badger baiting/lamping etc. (I know that lamping is legal in this country under certain circumstances).

niff wrote:
you could probs get harley a house ,,,, from the council ,,,,,and some sort of benefit before someone actually born in the uk and entitled to it lol

To be fair Harley would probably make a better neighbour than most of them and the benifits would be less wasted on him

BlueStaffBlue wrote:

niff wrote:
you could probs get harley a house ,,,, from the council ,,,,,and some sort of benefit before someone actually born in the uk and entitled to it lol

To be fair Harley would probably make a better neighbour than most of them and the benifits would be less wasted on him

rofl

Caryll wrote:

karmadog wrote:I agree the black dog looks nothing like a proper Staffy, however the below picture does look like how a Bull Terrier looked many years ago - Could very well be a 'proper' bullie just a very badly bred one.

I've had several bullies over the years who really did look like crosses but were just poorly bred and there are a couple of breeders in Wales who purposely breed them like the above photo.

They are supposedly trying to breed bullies as to how they looked 50+ years ago.

My old rescue girl Drama had the 'old style' shaped head - I was convinced she was a cross until I managed to trace her breeder - I was shocked when I found out lol!!

Personally I prefer both Staffies and Bull Terriers as they look today.

The dogs pictured are, in fact, the result of breeders trying to breed back the old style bull & terrier dogs, not staffords. The people who breed these dogs say that both Staffords & Bullies have been bred too far away from the original bull & terrier.

indeed th English bully of old didn't have the deformed head as modern breeders have exaggerated,and i believe the old bulldog of yore looked very much as the bully type staffies do today.lets hope the breeders don't do to the staffy what they've done to the bulldog and bull terrier..
http://hinksoldtymebullterriers.webs.com/

english bull 1905

markeB wrote:indeed th English bully of old didn't have the deformed head as modern breeders have exaggerated,and i believe the old bulldog of yore looked very much as the bully type staffies do today.lets hope the breeders don't do to the staffy what they've done to the bulldog and bull terrier..
http://hinksoldtymebullterriers.webs.com/

english bull 1905

Here's a pic of Crib & Rosa - the type of Bull Dog used in creating the stafford. To me, they have very little resemblance to the stafford of today. They are undershot, and far less balanced.



When you say that the head of the Bull Terrier is deformed, are talking about the extremes which are in the breed today, or the Bull Terrier in general?

Caryll wrote:

markeB wrote:indeed th English bully of old didn't have the deformed head as modern breeders have exaggerated,and i believe the old bulldog of yore looked very much as the bully type staffies do today.lets hope the breeders don't do to the staffy what they've done to the bulldog and bull terrier..
http://hinksoldtymebullterriers.webs.com/

english bull 1905

Here's a pic of Crib & Rosa - the type of Bull Dog used in creating the stafford. To me, they have very little resemblance to the stafford of today. They are undershot, and far less balanced.


When you say that the head of the Bull Terrier is deformed, are talking about the extremes which are in the breed today, or the Bull Terrier in general?

Dempsey has a gorgeous head + gorgeous ickle face

Thank you Tracey!

Can you see the pic of Crib & Rosa? It doesn't seem to be loading on my computer!

I'm originally from Staffordshire and I'm definately English! I thought the American ones originated from our show dogs. Like someone said the bigger the better for the Americans!

orginal english bull 1905

crib and rosa early bulldogs from wayyyyyyy back