First signs of agression? Please help.

A bit worried...

Ralph is still very nippy. When he’s excited he can still nip quite hard, like when you come in and he’s jumping as he’s pleased to see you. He will try and bite your clothes and hand if he can reach. We are trying to deal with this by totally ignoring him until he calms, and has all 4 paws on the floor. I hope this is right?

The other thing he does, is jumps up onto the sofa, but while he’s the same level as you he will nip. If you turn your back to ignore him, he has bitten me on the back and arm when I’ve been doing this in the past, so now, if teeth touch skin, he’s told to get off the sofa (which he does usually quite well) until he’s calm. If he doesn’t calm, it’s ‘time out’ and he goes the other side of the baby gate for a few minutes.

I’m sure it’s not aggression as the body language is telling me he’s just excited and wants attention. He’s 7 months now, so I’m wondering if he’s just pushing boundary’s?

Anyway, this doesn’t really have much to do with the point of the post! Over the last couple of weeks, we have had little instances whilst out. Last week we met a 13 week old staffy pup who was adorable. We stopped to say hello. After a few minutes the pup became very submissive and Ralph took the opportunity to dominate it. He put his whole weight on the pup and took the opportunity to bite and growl a bit. I felt he went too far so pulled him off.

He then did the same a few minutes later, with a Jack Russell that we met. Again I pulled him off immediately.

We didn’t see that behaviour again until last night. We was out walking with my friend and her two boxers. The 3 dogs were playing really well for a good 30 minutes. We were just about to leave the park and go home, when some kind of cross came over with long hair. Ralph started playing, but as soon as the dog lay down and became submissive, Ralph was all over it – exactly as before – he got on top and there was a bit of a scrap and the other dog yelped.

My friend who was closer to them said that she was sure Ralph didn’t bite the dog, but the dog did let out a yelp. I can’t say because I couldn’t see.

Now, the thing I do notice is when I pull him off, he is not 'chomping at the bit' to get back to the dog, he is calm immediately.

Is this the first signs of dog aggression? What can I do guys? Please help as I will do anything to try and banish this behaviour.

It's hard to say for certain without actually seeing it. I would say that it is completly normal behaviour for a dog at that age though. They are going through a teenage phase with boundary pushing and attempting to establish dominance.

When anthor dog shows signs of submission he is seeing it as a sign to assert himself much like teenagers will do. I don't think it's anything to be overly concerned about. Just keep pulling him off like you are doing and make him sit and be calm before allowing interaction again. The more socialization the better and in time he will learn his manners.

I wouldn't say it was aggression, more the need to let strange dogs know who's boss. Obviously you will need to keep correcting him if you feel it's going too far or he might pick on someone who won't submit & there could be a fight!

He's at an age where he feels he's bigger & better than he is (typical teenager - apologies to any teenagers on the forum!) and he just needs reminding that if he doesn't play nicely then he doesn't play at all!

With the sofa, Ionly allowed Dempsey on the sofa if he was invited up - if he got up without an invite I made him get down & sit for a few seconds, then I'd call him up.

If he plays up when he's up there, then tell him to get down - if he doesn't, walk out of the room & make a noise outside so he's curious & gets down on his own.

Thank you jstaff - I will do as you suggest. That's pretty much what I was doing anyway so I'm glad you had the same opinion...

Caryll wrote:With the sofa, Ionly allowed Dempsey on the sofa if he was invited up - if he got up without an invite I made him get down & sit for a few seconds, then I'd call him up.

If he plays up when he's up there, then tell him to get down - if he doesn't, walk out of the room & make a noise outside so he's curious & gets down on his own.

Thanks Caryll - I was thinking of only letting him up when invited - but didn't know quite how to do it. I was thinking that I'd only confuse him by saying no to him and then letting him up when I say. I will start telling him to get down when he's not asked. I have to say, he is good at getting down when he's told so hopefully this will be a reasonably easy thing to teach him. It's pretty much what we're doing upstairs - now that he's not in his crate at night and he can wander where he likes, the little minx is jumping on the bed in the night hoping he won't be noticed! We make him get down at once!

I will try and keep him reasonably close when we're out on a walk so that I can intervene when I need to - 99% of the time it's fine, but we've just had a couple of instances where I've thought 'that's not right'. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply.

Jo

I obviously don't have the experience of the others that have posted, but it sounds like his teenage behaviour. Trying to feel better by picking on the one willing to bow down, so to speak. Obviously take him away if you feel he's getting too rough or dominant, but I wouldn't think it was aggression so soon, especially since I doubt many dog-aggressive dogs would start on a dog that's willing to submit so readily.

Also, regarding the nipping/jumping, I can't give any advice, I'm still in the same boat (mostly the jumping), but it's kind of comforting to know I'm not the only one whose puppy will start biting if you're level with them. I think your training sounds right though, so just keep up with it. He'll be stubborn and you have to be more stubborn

They tend to think of you as a playmate if you are on the same level as them. Best to stay off of the floor if you don't want to encourage rough play

Thsnk you all for your comments. Really appreciate it.

Sofa - I dont really allow any of my dogs on the sofa untill they are of an age they could control there excitment for that reason, once they start to "play" on there, they dont want to get off, which becomes another game and so on .. I always get on the floor to play with them, and they soon realise that when I stand back up, the game stops (usually when they are starting to hurt me )

Dominance - I would agree with the advice above, there is a big differance between a cocky teenager pup, and one that is a scrapper, destined to become DA to various degree's (which incindentally can happen over night ... that, I found out with Zac )

I would just add that possibly try to watch him like a hawk around other dogs, the SECOND one starts to be submissive, remove him gently and calmly for a while then reintroduce if poss .. he needs to know that its not the way to act NOW .. try not to let it get any further

He's a beautifull lookin boy by the way

Great. Thanks Andy. I'll try and stay close to him so I can keep an eye. He does like to wander a bit too far sometimes.

hi, i dont know if this will help you with the niping but i got my dog to stop it by making a noise as if she hurt me everytime she made contact with my skin with her teath , even the slitest touch or if she has an open mouth on any part of my arm i would make a loud sound as if it hurt and then move her away and ignore her , not a sound to scare the dog but so it knows its done something wrong ,
i would also stop enyone allowing the dog to mouth them when playing , i know some strangers and people think this is ok , its not , the dog will think its ok to play like this with enyone ,.
and get a good chew toy that the dog will want to get its mouth round alot , .
well hope something here helps,
im still learning alot about bringing up my own dog aswell so some people might not agree with my methods here ,
goodluck bye from ryan (me) and kye (my staff).

kye wrote:hi, i dont know if this will help you with the niping but i got my dog to stop it by making a noise as if she hurt me everytime she made contact with my skin with her teath , even the slitest touch or if she has an open mouth on any part of my arm i would make a loud sound as if it hurt and then move her away and ignore her , not a sound to scare the dog but so it knows its done something wrong ,
i would also stop enyone allowing the dog to mouth them when playing , i know some strangers and people think this is ok , its not , the dog will think its ok to play like this with enyone ,.
and get a good chew toy that the dog will want to get its mouth round alot , .
well hope something here helps,
im still learning alot about bringing up my own dog aswell so some people might not agree with my methods here ,
goodluck bye from ryan (me) and kye (my staff).

Bang on mate .. I do the same

kye wrote:hi, i dont know if this will help you with the niping but i got my dog to stop it by making a noise as if she hurt me everytime she made contact with my skin with her teath , even the slitest touch or if she has an open mouth on any part of my arm i would make a loud sound as if it hurt and then move her away and ignore her , not a sound to scare the dog but so it knows its done something wrong ,
i would also stop enyone allowing the dog to mouth them when playing , i know some strangers and people think this is ok , its not , the dog will think its ok to play like this with enyone ,.
and get a good chew toy that the dog will want to get its mouth round alot , .
well hope something here helps,
im still learning alot about bringing up my own dog aswell so some people might not agree with my methods here ,
goodluck bye from ryan (me) and kye (my staff).

I really try and do this Kye, and I would say your methods are correct, but it doesn't seem to have an effect. I've tried all sorts of noises yelping, howling, saying 'ouch' and it doesn' stop him.

I do stop play immediately if his teeth touch my skin, but sometimes when I stop and turn away, he will nip at the back which is not nice. The other thing is sometimes he will nip at my clothes, and I just imagine they are an extension of me and apply what I would do if he had laid teeth on my skin.

I am forever trying to replace things he shouldn't have, like fingers and my shoes with something he can chew.

I found that yelping just excited Dempsey & made him worse! With him, a stern "No!" and turn away was usually enough, but occasionally he had to be taken out of the room for a few minutes.

The post just felt like mine own words. Debo does all the things,now he's nearly 7mnths and he's pushing his luck A LOT. I do same things to correct him and hoping it won't last for long now. You are lucky that your one will get of the sofa when asked. When Debo does something naughty on the sofa like nip etc and I ask him to get off,most of the times he will just look at me,thinking that he's bigger. I have to remove him from the sofa and put him on time out. Good luck and happy I'm not alone

jola139 wrote:The post just felt like mine own words. Debo does all the things,now he's nearly 7mnths and he's pushing his luck A LOT. I do same things to correct him and hoping it won't last for long now. You are lucky that your one will get of the sofa when asked. When Debo does something naughty on the sofa like nip etc and I ask him to get off,most of the times he will just look at me,thinking that he's bigger. I have to remove him from the sofa and put him on time out. Good luck and happy I'm not alone

Glad I'm not the only one!

jola139 wrote:The post just felt like mine own words. Debo does all the things,now he's nearly 7mnths and he's pushing his luck A LOT. I do same things to correct him and hoping it won't last for long now. You are lucky that your one will get of the sofa when asked. When Debo does something naughty on the sofa like nip etc and I ask him to get off,most of the times he will just look at me,thinking that he's bigger. I have to remove him from the sofa and put him on time out. Good luck and happy I'm not alone

Try to remember, its not really about who is stronger, bigger, more dominant etc (tho it sometimes feels that way ) ... its ALL about who is in control of each situation .. a hyped or bored pup will push you in the only way he knows how to get a reaction, which is usually seen as naughty behaviour, so if he gets on the sofa thinkin "this will be fun when she try's to get me off here > " .. I would completely ignore him, and leave the room, and continue to ignore him till he starts to tow the line .. BUT, you must then give him the time and effection he's asking you for after ><

Obviously I'm no dog behavour expert, and this is just the sort of thing I would do ... each dog is differant ... tho one thing all staffy pups have in common, is they are little sh!ts for the first few months

The sofa thing Debo always does when I really don't want him there, like after a long walk on the rain,we back inside and he sprints inside on the sofa. And he's having that look. If I leave him there,wouldn't he think that I gave up and he can use sofa whenever?

What i used to do with troy with the niping is everytime he niped i would yelp say ah ah NO then get up and walk away and ignore him for a few mins but only a few mins as he would forget why i was blanking him. After the few mins i would play with him he soon learnt niping is boring As for the sofa hard one as troy is aloud on my sofa but if you have tryed everything then my next plan of action would be... when u put him down say a stern DOWN so thats one chance if he go up again second time then would be time out for a few mins but he would always get a 1st chance he will soon learn its not allowed.Im no expert tho and everyone has there own way

jola139 wrote:The sofa thing Debo always does when I really don't want him there, like after a long walk on the rain,we back inside and he sprints inside on the sofa. And he's having that look. If I leave him there,wouldn't he think that I gave up and he can use sofa whenever?

Ah right, I misunderstood, cus Max would accasionally jump on the sofa to goad me into a play fight ... if he's doing it just because he wants to lay on there, and you dont, then yeah, he has to be removed and made to understand its not on, or a game, which it sounds like you are doing, so its a battle of wills a bit now

A real battle of wills-sometimes I've got the feeling I'm not the one who's wining

I know that feeling well ... I'm married !!

So that makes me double loser

jola139 wrote:The sofa thing Debo always does when I really don't want him there, like after a long walk on the rain,we back inside and he sprints inside on the sofa. And he's having that look. If I leave him there,wouldn't he think that I gave up and he can use sofa whenever?

If that's the case, call him down (don't touch him). If he won't get off, go & get one of his toys & play with it yourself (yes, I know it sounds silly) or get a treat & pretend to eat it. As soon as he gets off the sofa to see what you're doing (and you've got to be quick, here) say "off", or whatever word you're using, and give him the treat/toy.

If you start to physically wrestle with him, sooner or later he'll be stronger than you & you don't want him to find that out!

[quote="Jellytot"]

kye wrote:

I really try and do this Kye, and I would say your methods are correct, but it doesn't seem to have an effect. I've tried all sorts of noises yelping, howling, saying 'ouch' and it doesn' stop him.

I do stop play immediately if his teeth touch my skin, but sometimes when I stop and turn away, he will nip at the back which is not nice. The other thing is sometimes he will nip at my clothes, and I just imagine they are an extension of me and apply what I would do if he had laid teeth on my skin.

I am forever trying to replace things he shouldn't have, like fingers and my shoes with something he can chew.

hi agen , if the ignoring him and making noises dont work for your dog someone said something about dogy time outs, like the American nanny(babysitter) show dose , do this a fue times and the dog will start to get the message, barking and scratching the door will happen at first but just wait till the dog stops then let it out ,5 min is plenty i find, you'll be like a yo-yo at first lol, in out in out etc.
good luck .

Hi all - my first post here (apart from introduction!)
I've come to this thread for two reasons -
First, to reassure people that play or friendly nipping doesn't necessarily become aggression, and second to ask for advice as to how to stop it in an older dog!
I have just taken into care, a very chunky lad aged five. He does exactly the kind of nipping described above - loose clothing, ankles, fingers etc. It's obvious he doesn't mean to hurt, as he is obviously being playful, but he's such a heavy dog that it does hurt. He's always done it, but his previous owner either didn't try to stop it when he was younger, or just couldn't stop it. So obviously it doesn't always lead to aggression, as he isn't at all - but any advice on how to change this well-established behaviour in a five year old dog, would be appreciated. I have tried 'NO!' and turning away - he then gives me a lick as if to say sorry, but then will do the nipping thing again. It's become part of a pattern. Any ideas?

NB we also have a young one year old female Staffy who he used to live with, so he does have a playmate.

Caryll wrote:I found that yelping just excited Dempsey & made him worse! With him, a stern "No!" and turn away was usually enough, but occasionally he had to be taken out of the room for a few minutes.

same with Jellybean - yelping, can with some coins, any loud noise other than a FIRM NO just gets her excited. I tell her NO very firmly when she gets that way (she's the same age as the pup in the first post) and send her out of the room. If I even try to grab her or pay her any mind, she thinks the game is on and tries to nip and jumps up. she even barks a high pitched bark. but she doesn't actually try to bite in a hard, nasty aggressive way. just a teenager pushing her boundaries, and as Caryll said, perfect age for it.

Hi, I've written somewhere else on this site on how I allowed mouthing to teach bite inhibition (using the yelping as above) and how I wish I hadn't allowed mouthing at all now as it hasn't seemed to work with this particular dog as he still nips when excited (exactly as described above).

I am glad to find that I am not alone, and would confirm that it's not aggression, just "play", and Kuchar still submits to bigger dogs and just wants to romp with smaller/same size dogs, without teeth.

The yelping, the NOs, the turning of backs etc will continue with renewed confidence now after reading the foregoing in the hope that ONE DAY it will sink in and he will become better mannered.

Hi everyone.

I have just joined the group today and am sooooo glad i did.
All this talk of nipping, jumping off all fours and biting the back of you when you turn away to ignore sounds exactly like the situation I am in with Ozzie.

Ozzie is approx 12 months old and we rescued him on the 1st sept. He was a stray so have no history about his old life.
We decided to have Ozzie neutered after about 6 weeks which has helped slightly. He has become a lot better with myself and my partner but definatley tries it on me me (women) more than my boyfriend. Ozzie seems to get so excited he cannot control himself and that's when the biting starts. His bite doesn't hurt as such but when he jumps and bites it can be quite painful and I have had some nasty bruises from him.
We find a short sharp NO works and he tends to pretend he wasn't biting by forcing a yawn or licking us. However the real issue is when visitors come around as they say they don't want to shout at him and he ends up so excited hes jumping and mouthing.... Argh.
So glad i am not alone with this unwanted behaviour.... However you currently wouldn't believe a word of what I am saying as he is sprawled acoss me on the sofa snoring away... Butter wouldnt melt ey

Hi Carly - you couldn't have come to a better website, everyone here is so friendly and helpful.

Yes I have had bruises myself from Kuchar. I can bear it myself as I know he is just so boisterous and doesn't mean harm. But you hit the nail on the head when you mention visitors, or indeed any other people - they DON'T understand. You're lucky that your visitors say they don't want to shout at Ozzie - I have had NO shortage of visitors (my son's friends) who don't hesitate to give me and Kuchar the benefit of their "superior" knowledge.

Good luck with your training

I always found it easier to walk out the room that try and put her out as she always just thought it was part of the game and would run around thinking it was a came of chase! And if i did get her out she would cry and scratch the door so id wait til she'd stop and let her in but she never seemed to get the point. Whereas a few times of me leaving the room she seemed to get it.
I used to think the "ouch" technique was a myth as everytime i done it she got more excited and worse!
She still mouths at my other half when they play, but she dare not do it with me