This is the description they go by.

This is the description UK police and law enforcement officers go by when determining a pitbull type dog.

The standard used to identify a PBT is set out in the American Dog Breeders Association standard of
conformation as published in the Pit Bull Gazette, vol 1, issue 3 1977 – please refer to this for the full
description and also relevant cases20 as this is only a brief overview. Although the law does not require
a suspected PBT to fit the description perfectly, it does require there to be a substantial number of
characteristics present so that it can be considered ‘more’ PBT than any other type of dog.

• When first viewing the dog it should appear square from the side, and its height to the top of
its shoulders should be the same distance as from the front of its shoulder to the rear point of
its hip.
• Its height to weight ratio should be in proportion.
• Its coat should be short and bristled, (single coated).
• Its head should appear to be wedge shaped when viewed from the side and top but rounded
when viewed from the front. The head should be around 2/3 width of shoulders and 25 per
cent wider at cheeks than at the base of the skull (this is due to the cheek muscles).
• The distance from the back of the head to between the eyes should be about equal to the
distance from between the eyes to the tip of its nose.
• The dog should have a good depth from the top of head to bottom of jaw and a straight
box-like muzzle.
• Its eyes should be small and deep-set, triangular when viewed from the side and elliptical
from front.
• Its shoulders should be wider than the rib cage at the eighth rib.
• Its elbows should be flat with its front legs running parallel to the spine.
• Its forelegs should be heavy and solid and nearly twice the thickness of the hind legs just below
the hock.
• The rib cage should be deep and spring straight out from the spine, it should be elliptical in
cross section tapering at the bottom and not ‘barrel’ chested.
• It should have a tail that hangs down like an old fashioned ‘pump handle’ to around the hock.
• It should have a broad hip that allows good attachment of muscles in the hindquarters and
hind legs.
• Its knee joint should be in the upper third of the dog’s rear leg, and the bones below that
should appear light, fine and springy.
• Overall the dog should have an athletic appearance, the standard makes no mention of ears,
colour, height, or weight.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/dogs-guide-enforcers.pdf

OMG .... I'm off to get the tape measure out !! .... I might have a pit bull in the house

That's ridiculous. Charlie has a few of those traits, especially the measurements, but he's no pitbull. They've admitted that the whole bsl is flawed, they need to hurry up and get rid of it already.

Judging anything by it's appearance alone is flawed. Ban the american pitbull terrier if you must, but to judge an animal by 'type' is ludicrous.
Dog licences with more expensive licences for 'power' breeds would solve many of these problems. A test would be required to gain a licence. Aggressive dogs would be confiscated and the owner would be banned for life from keeping animals.
But tis a pointless dream, it's too simple you see.

Dog licences wouldn't solve the problem at all we had a Dog licences and it fail and that why they got rid it's a soceity problem untill we fix that nothing is going to change!

Steve wrote:Dog licences wouldn't solve the problem at all we had a Dog licences and it fail and that why they got rid it's a soceity problem untill we fix that nothing is going to change!

It is societies problem yes but you have to admit it is only like it is because the people the in charge are not tough enough and the conciquences are not big enough. Their all sheep that need biting in the a** not herding.

i wouldn't pay for dog licence also there no way of enforcing a it,

Steve wrote:i wouldn't pay for dog licence also there no way of enforcing a it,

There are thousands of people out there without jobs, it would be so very easy to open another company who could enforce it.

there no way on this earth the goverment could enforce a dog licence people would have to pay a silly amount to enforce a dog licence.

Steve wrote:there no way on this earth the goverment could enforce a dog licence people would have to pay a silly amount to enforce a dog licence.

If you love your pet and want to keep your pet or not get fined then they will pay a license, its a good way to seperate the good owners from bad owners.

it's not going stop bad owner, it didn't work before it wont work now!!

the only way of fixing our dog problem is fixing soceity bring silly things like a license you just papering over the crack and wont fix the main problem!

i wont be giving the goverment more of them money they get plenty off me already i'm sure alot of people will feel the same!

Steve wrote:i wont be giving the goverment more of them money they get plenty off me already i'm sure alot of people will feel the same!

Its a good way to have all dogs on records or even do it with the microchipping, You keep on saying its societies problem and it is but you never suggest a solution so what could possible make things better?, besides higher fines or punishments because those are the obviouse.

i have told everyone how to fix soceity about a 100 million on this forum.

get out of the human right act
bring back NS
get tougher on bad mums, dads and problem kids (neutered the one who aren't willing to change)

As you said with the licence there is not enough power to enforce it. Its a good idea and i would be more than happy to enforce it to a rather sizable number of people that i know, but it is not practical and it is never going to happen no one would enforce such a solution because of the human rights act, the idea needs splitting down the middle be tougher yes but not affect the human rights act. The first thing that needs to be done is to seperate the good owner from the bad the only way to do that is to have it on record some way and the easiest way to do that is licencing, easy to see tags on our dogs for other people or enforcers, it would be as easy as painting the tips of dogs tails a certain colour and the bad owners have a different colour.

i would never pay for a dog licence! it didn't work the last time so why do you think it's going to work this time?

Steve wrote:i would never pay for a dog licence! it didn't work the last time so why do you think it's going to work this time?

I'm not just on about licencing but something like it, without charge or something.
I am sorry to say this steve but you seem to be part of the problem not at all as bad as most people but you deny everything that could possibly help from adopting/rescuing a breed you claim you love to paying a small fee that could really help if organised properly unlike it was when it first came out.
You have your one point about it being societies problem and i aggree to that, but you seem unwilling to solve these problems any other way when your idea is not practical and never will be, there has to be a half way line surely.

i dont believe in papering over crack!

do you think bad owners are going be bothered about anything like licences? no so it's not going solve the problem at all

Steve wrote:i dont believe in papering over crack!

do you think bad owners are going be bothered about anything like licences? no so it's not going solve the problem at all

exactly seperating the bad owners from the good, us good owner are getting the sh** kicked into more so than the bad owners because we actually care and take it all to heart.
just have a rough estimated number of good and bad owners will help in the long run of cracking down on the idiots and not us, maybe then more good owner will actually think its worth fighting whether its signing more petitions or volunteer for something else because they know they are not targeted like we currently are for owning a certain breed.

If i had my way owning a dog would be as difficult as owner a vehicle licence, if you don't pass the test and know the meer basics for caring/socialising/behaviour the importance of physically and mental stimulation then you do not get to own a dog until your do your research.

claire it's not going solve the problem.... there no money around these days if there was something like we wouldn't be afford to pay it

The problem with licenses is that they'll be paid for by the good/responsible owners and completely ignored by the irresponsible owners. As Steve said, there is just no way of enforcing it. There would never be enough enforcers to look at each dog's collar when it's out for a walk to see if it has a license tag. So all that would happen is that the good people will buy one, the bad won't bother, a few may be caught in the areas where there are enforcers, but most won't. Absolutely pointless, and the good owners being made to pay because of the bad, as usual.

Steve wrote:claire it's not going solve the problem.... there no money around these days if there was something like we wouldn't be afford to pay it

True. Whatever test was introduced would be expensive. But once again, the responsible people would take the test, the nobs wouldn't.

shontelle wrote:The problem with licenses is that they'll be paid for by the good/responsible owners and completely ignored by the irresponsible owners. As Steve said, there is just no way of enforcing it. There would never be enough enforcers to look at each dog's collar when it's out for a walk to see if it has a license tag. So all that would happen is that the good people will buy one, the bad won't bother, a few may be caught in the areas where there are enforcers, but most won't. Absolutely pointless, and the good owners being made to pay because of the bad, as usual.

Again, this is true.

There is no such thing as society: there are individual men and women, and there are families.
Margaret Thatcher

I think you're giving up too easily. Look how strict they are with car insurance now-how often do you seen an uninsured driver? Of course it would take several years to establish but everything worth doing takes effort. The money for the licences would pay the wages of the task force implimenting it. The licences would also ensure that every dog could be traced back to it's owner or breeder, there would be fewer abandoned and lost dogs. As an additional licence would be required to breed any dogs owned it would go some way to solving the problem of over breeding and help ease the rescue centres burdan. Oh and the licences would be free for OAPS and there would be concessions for those on benefits.
To be honest i'd like to do the same with humans

where the money is coming to have warden on every street of the uk becasue that the only way of enforce licence.

what are you talking about jade? our soceity is mess and that why uwe have a dog problem

The money to fund such programs would come from people paying to license their dogs. We have a dog license here in Maine and I have no problem paying $20 the first year and $7 a year after that to license my dog. Any one who does have a problem with paying such a small amount is just ridiculous and doesn't deserve to have a dog any way.

people wont pay it and that wouldn't be enough to enforce a license we had one before and no 1 paid it that why we got rid to enforce one dog owner would have to pay a silly amount every years

As for the government's PBT description, most, if not all, of the Staffords on this forum (my Saxon included) could be called a Pit Bull by some unscrupulous police officer using that description. They don't even have colors, heights or weights listed!! Just an other reason that BSL needs to be abolished. It is unfair to judge based solely on appearance rather than based on ones actions.

Steve wrote:people wont pay it and that wouldn't be enough to enforce a license we had one before and no 1 paid it that why we got rid to enforce one dog owner would have to pay a silly amount every years

People pay it here. Most of the dogs I see in and out of the pet shop I work for have a Maine state license dangling off their collar just like Saxon does.

people wont here people give enough money to the goverment they wouldn't give anymore

Its a small fee to pay if it seperates us from the idiot owners.

a fee would be huge and yearly to be able to enforce it

shakespearesdog wrote:There is no such thing as society: there are individual men and women, and there are families.
Margaret Thatcher

I think you're giving up too easily. Look how strict they are with car insurance now-how often do you seen an uninsured driver? Of course it would take several years to establish but everything worth doing takes effort. The money for the licences would pay the wages of the task force implimenting it. The licences would also ensure that every dog could be traced back to it's owner or breeder, there would be fewer abandoned and lost dogs. As an additional licence would be required to breed any dogs owned it would go some way to solving the problem of over breeding and help ease the rescue centres burdan. Oh and the licences would be free for OAPS and there would be concessions for those on benefits.
To be honest i'd like to do the same with humans

haha a quote from that woman means jack she didn't know her a rse from here elbow when it came to the British people

and ovcourse there going to enforce car insurance the government makes millions out of it same as road fund licence which we pay for the worst roads in the uk.
not meaning to be condescending to the younger members but dog licencing been tried it didn't work no point wasting money trying failed ideas.

A lot of thing never worked back then....doesn't mean it won't work now.

MissRogue wrote:A lot of thing never worked back then....doesn't mean it won't work now.

the licence would have to be a high price for the goverment to even be intrested and there are a lot of good owners could not afford to pay as with the toerag drug dealers and wonabe gangsters with loads ov doddgy cash would easy be able to afford.
bringing in a licence would not sort this country out

I think instead of licenses they should make it manditory to have your dog chipped so any strays can have their owner found and either returned/ or the owner to pay towards the kenneling until the dog found a home
I know they can go wrong also people move but that at least would be a step in the right direction

Wow talk about depressing, defeatist attitudes. No wonder 'society' is in such a mess.
Big changes always start with little steps. I would have no problem paying an annual fee, people spend enough money on alcohol.
It's not about sorting out the country, it's about trying to bring order to dog ownership. You're all saying dog liciencing didn't work the first time but clearly having no regulation at all of pet ownership doesn't work either.
Do you not think i've discussed this with people of all ages, most of which had dogs when liciences were still being implimented in this country? I do my research.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.
Albert Einstein

where is the money coming to enforce this jade. depressing, defeatist attitudes??? it's called realistice attitudes i'm going say this one more time IT CANT BE ENFORCE!

If you go by that attitude nothing can ever be enforced. Why combat crime and have laws if people break them all the time?
The money would come from the licences themselves. In fact on the back of the licence tag they could have a advertisement of a pet product, I bet pet food companies would pay vast amounts to have their brand displayed prominently round the neck of every dog in the country.
There is realistic and then there is nihilistic.


Why rebel any longer against the symmetry of this world when Chaos itself can only be a system of disorders? Our fate being to rot with the continents and the stars, we drag on, like resigned sick men, and to the end of time, the curiosity of a denouement that is foreseen, frightful, and vain.



E. M. Cioran

can we use some common sense in this topic please..... to enfroce any dog licence or chipping you would need a dog cheacker on every street or it wont be enfroce becasue me and 100,000s other wont pay it.

this topic is becoming very boring

shakespearesdog

Totally Agree

Steve wrote: this topic is becoming very boring

Another topic to be locked soon then I guess.

u just got it lock claire

topic is now locked