When is the time to call in a professional?

Hi all,

I was wondering how long should I give it before seeking further help from a professional in regards to training and behavioural issues?

I have only had Troy 4 weeks and he is getting better, but off the top of my head the things that need sorting are:

-Food stealing
-Rushing out of the door
-Excessive whining and pulling towards other dogs
-Some seperation anxiety
-Over excitement
-Pulling on the lead in general

A gentlement commented on Crufts last night that the dogs that think they are pack leaders are the ones that are usually out of control and that made me think about Troy!

He has problem with the above but:

Will listen..sit, lay, stay
Comes when called
Go's to his bed when told
Won't eat his food until I say so
Has stopped rushing past me so much when moving from room to room

So who is the pack leader!?

Sorry for asking these questions again but what do you feed him and how much exercise does he get ??

From what you say he does do OK it dosn't sound like he is out of control.

It may well be worth asking a behaviourist for some further advise.

The pack leader mentality is a very old fashioned one. You should be the boss yes and the prime resource controller but he knows your a human not a dog. All apart from the first one are very common problems. He is under socialized and a terrier. I think you are over reacting and you need a lot more time being consistent with him to see better results. Just think about it, he's been stuck with the same behaviour since his other owners bought him home at eight weeks (I'm hoping). If you had acted and been treated a certain way since you were a baby and all of a sudden everything was different you would have a few issues too I'm sure.
He is not disobedient to you-all his problems stem from not being socialized properly and being out and about on walks. Make sure he says hello to each and every dog he meets. Imagine if you had been left in a house most of your life with dogs and never allowed to meet another creature like yourself. You'd be excited seeing another human I'm sure!
The food stealing is because he was underfed in his last home, he is worried that the last meal he gets will be his last, he may never grow out of this.
When I had the rotty he was a prime food stealer too and none of us blamed him. He had been kept half starved in a yard for most of his life and when he was fed one of the lads would buy him a kebab. He once ate a whole block of cheese and butter! He was a pain in the * to walk-imagine this-a 15 stone rottweiler cross english mastiff, head as high as your waist and the size of a bowling bowl-suspicious of any young men, hating anyone with dark skin, hating all other dogs and not only that but completely untrained to walk on a lead because he'd been a yard dog and never walked! Imagine that 15 stone dragging you along the road. Imagine what happens when he sees another dog in the distance!? He was walked on a choke and a harness and muzzled. There was reason we had to rehome him to a strong and experienced man.
Troy's minor problems will improve in time. He sounds a cracking little dog to be honest. You are far too harsh on him, I wonder if other people have criticized his behaviour and this is why you're overreacting so much?

kathytake2 wrote:Sorry for asking these questions again but what do you feed him and how much exercise does he get ??

From what you say he does do OK it dosn't sound like he is out of control.

It may well be worth asking a behaviourist for some further advise.

Yeah, he is not completely out of control 100% of the time, just sometimes when something sets him off he goes off on one.

He is now on James Wellbeloved and has been for a few weeks now. He get's walk about 40-45 minutes in the morning, walked midday by my brother and another 45 min walk or so on my return to work and a short walk before bed.

I will now be playing ball with him on his afternoon works after I finish work (too dark in the morning) so should tire him out more. I was not confident with him off the lead before but he is okay in the local field.

Saying that though, yesterday he had his normal walk, chased a ball for about 1hr in my brothers yard, went for a 30 min walk in a local park straight after, THEN went to another park and chased a ball for literally 2 hours long and STILL wanted to pull at things afterwards

So I don't really think it is a case of him not getting enough exercise. It's more to do with excitement and distractions as he is not as bad early in the morning and late at night.

The pack leader mentality is a very old fashioned one. You should be the boss yes and the prime resource controller but he knows your a human not a dog. All apart from the first one are very common problems. He is under socialized and a terrier. I think you are over reacting and you need a lot more time being consistent with him to see better results. Just think about it, he's been stuck with the same behaviour since his other owners bought him home at eight weeks (I'm hoping). If you had acted and been treated a certain way since you were a baby and all of a sudden everything was different you would have a few issues too I'm sure.

Yeah, it hasn't been very long at all. I guess it just gets really stressful at times. Took him to a massive park where I live yesterday with plenty of dogs and he did his usual pulling and whining act and was very stressful for me and my GF to the point where you just say, thats it..we are going home.

I am definately going to give it more time, I was wondering when the right time would be to seek a professional. I guess we could be looking at months really?

He is not disobedient to you-all his problems stem from not being socialized properly and being out and about on walks. Make sure he says hello to each and every dog he meets. Imagine if you had been left in a house most of your life with dogs and never allowed to meet another creature like yourself. You'd be excited seeing another human I'm sure!

I try to let him say hi, but I can't with every dog I see. Especailly when he starts pulling and whining, people proabably think he is crazy and / or agressive. I have seen one lady pick up her dog and literally run!

When I can, I do explain to people that he has not be socilised and is a rescue dog etc but is friendly and they let him have a sniff and usually after saying hi he is fine.

The food stealing is because he was underfed in his last home, he is worried that the last meal he gets will be his last, he may never grow out of this.
When I had the rotty he was a prime food stealer too and none of us blamed him. He had been kept half starved in a yard for most of his life and when he was fed one of the lads would buy him a kebab. He once ate a whole block of cheese and butter! He was a pain in the * to walk-imagine this-a 15 stone rottweiler cross english mastiff, head as high as your waist and the size of a bowling bowl-suspicious of any young men, hating anyone with dark skin, hating all other dogs and not only that but completely untrained to walk on a lead because he'd been a yard dog and never walked! Imagine that 15 stone dragging you along the road. Imagine what happens when he sees another dog in the distance!? He was walked on a choke and a harness and muzzled. There was reason we had to rehome him to a strong and experienced man.
Troy's minor problems will improve in time.

Yeah, again I think you are right. He has put on weight since I got him and when I first picked viewed him it was a Wednesday and the previous owner had no food. I picked him up on the Friday and he STILL had no food! He never even had any chew toys or anything when I got him. Just a lead and a cushion for a bed!

Do you have any ideas for correction when pulling / whining etc?

roy's minor problems will improve in time. He sounds a cracking little dog to be honest. You are far too harsh on him, I wonder if other people have criticized his behaviour and this is why you're overreacting so much?

No, nobody has said anything but they don't have to. It's the looks people give in the park and other public places, especially when they have a very well behaved dog walking next to them lookig at Troy like 'what's his problem'.

It is super embarassing too, but I hope we get there. And you are right, he is a cracking dog, I love him, he is great! Just not when he is doing the things I mentioned!

I'll keep at it and report back in a few weeks, hopefully with improvements!

When I can, I do explain to people that he has not be socilised and is a rescue dog etc but is friendly and they let him have a sniff and usually after saying hi he is fine.

That's pretty much all you can do. I don't know how long he'll take to improve, he may always get a bit excited seeing other dogs. When Romeo was a little puppy he used to be like that and I understand what you mean completely, it can get so embarrassing! Especially the first summer I took him out he was about five/six months old and he would run up to all the people laying on the grass and lick their heads.
If you and your girlfriend get stressed about it, he may pick up on it and get more anxious. You could try distracting him. Get him to sit and look you in the eye and praise him loads when he calms down and focuses on you. I don't really want to give a time limit on his behaviour, I think dog trainers are a waste of money and most don't know anything about staffies. I think by the end of this summer though you should see a vast improvement.

Thanks for the support.

I usually turn him in the opposite direction of where he is looking when whining which works..until he turns back around again! But I keep turning him around. I am hoping he will get the picture that eh can look, but not pull or whine.

I am going to try distracting him, maybe food / treats will work? I usually put something in front of his nose so he catches the scent..he usually will get distracted then. As soon as he takes the treat he will then go back to what he was doing in a millisecond though!

He chills and plays with my brothers puppy all the time, to the point where he is not really bothered about him. I just need to get him introduced to more dogs, but a lot of trainers that hold classes will only take on well socialised dogs..so then I can't get him socialised..der!

He chills and plays with my brothers puppy all the time, to the point where he is not really bothered about him. I just need to get him introduced to more dogs, but a lot of trainers that hold classes will only take on well socialised dogs..so then I can't get him socialised..der!

That's a shame. It is hard to find people that will let their dogs not only meet a full grown staffy but play with them as well. A lot of people get anxious when Romeo goes up to their dog and some don't even let them say hello! When he was a puppy it was a lot easier as people are generally ignorant and don't know one breed from the other with puppies.
Still he sometimes meets and gets to play with friendly dogs. Yesterday he had a lovely play with a staffy x akita and a labrador. I don't think the labradors owner was too enamoured as she kept calling him-but as we were walking the same way she didn't have much choice!
It may be a lot easier when he is off-lead-how is his re-call coming along?
Yes, treats are a good idea. Most dogs can't resist sausages or chocolate buttons (the dog ones!) These smell really strong as well unlike the other dog biscuits etc.
If he's really whining you could use your offside food to touch his back leg, not kick him, a touch. He should jump and look at you and that's when you quickly catch his attention and get him to sit/walk in the other direction. I can't vouch for this though but I have seen other dog trainers use it in rl not just on the telly.

His recall is getting there/ He listens when we are playing fetch with his ball. But if he see's another dog or something there would be no way he would listen, he would be off. There has been a few times where I have had to grab his long lead.

He ran over to some kids playing who screamed because he thought they were going for him but he just stole their football

I have tried the tapping and touch techniques but they don't seem to work. He is in such a state of excitement nothing seems to work, I think touch even makes him worse.

If you've only had him 4 weeks it sounds like you are expecting miracles give it time .. I've had Monty 6 months, he's still not adhering to recall, he doesn't stay when told, he doesn't lay down. He is still maturing but has calmed down so much since he was a puppy .. still a long way to go yet, but it will come.

You seem to being extremely well for 4 weeks. These dogs do take hard work and it does pay off in time. Perhaps it would not be a bad idea if you did call in a professional at this stage. If nothing else it will give you answers to your immediate concerns and boost your confidence in your training abilities.

Maria. wrote:If you've only had him 4 weeks it sounds like you are expecting miracles give it time .. I've had Monty 6 months, he's still not adhering to recall, he doesn't stay when told, he doesn't lay down. He is still maturing but has calmed down so much since he was a puppy .. still a long way to go yet, but it will come.

Yeah I guess I am...but how come Cesar Milan sorts dogs in 1 day? Would of took him sometime to settle in too, so I guess I can't expect too much given his history. He knows no better.

Ty wrote:You seem to being extremely well for 4 weeks. These dogs do take hard work and it does pay off in time. Perhaps it would not be a bad idea if you did call in a professional at this stage. If nothing else it will give you answers to your immediate concerns and boost your confidence in your training abilities.

Thanks. I taught him all from clicker training and because it doesn't seem he was fed regularly, he'll do anything for food

I was thinking more of a class or 1-2-1 session, don't really want to call a trainer just for advice, I'd feel like it was a little rude trying to learn their secrets without paying them a fee haha. That's just me, silly like that.

By the way shakespearesdog, took you advice and tried to let him meet a load of dogs on the walk we just went on. First off was a large Rottweiler that was tied to a fence. The owner said he wasn't friendly though so I never let them meet. Troy pulled a little and moaned a bit but NOTHING like he usually does and we carried on walked. Great!

Next up were two little Staff X puppies two girls had in their jackets. He is fine with puppies anyway but I let him have a little sniff.

3rd was a Staff / Pit cross which was apparently friendly but the had a little snap towards each other. Troy never started it, it was the other dog but Troy doesn't have much manners when it comes to meeting and greeting because he has no experience. I guess they should be introduced from the rear but it seems a little strange to ask some one:

1)Can my dog say hi to you dog
2)Can we turn them around so they can smelll each others butts

if you feel you need help training a dog then it is time to call someone. we started lemmy's training as soon as he had his second round of jabs and has been going training since which not only gives us tips on how to make him behave himself but it also great for soialising too

Maria. wrote:If you've only had him 4 weeks it sounds like you are expecting miracles give it time .. I've had Monty 6 months, he's still not adhering to recall, he doesn't stay when told, he doesn't lay down. He is still maturing but has calmed down so much since he was a puppy .. still a long way to go yet, but it will come.

Yes, But Monty's an EBT. They mature very slowly, much more slowly than a staff! I do agree, though, that what you've acheived in 4 weeks with Troy is actually very good. Rememeber that not only were you starting from scratch, but you're having to undo all the negative things that he learnt/felt in his old home.

Gee wrote:Yeah I guess I am...but how come Cesar Milan sorts dogs in 1 day? Would of took him sometime to settle in too, so I guess I can't expect too much given his history. He knows no better.

I was thinking more of a class or 1-2-1 session, don't really want to call a trainer just for advice, I'd feel like it was a little rude trying to learn their secrets without paying them a fee haha. That's just me, silly like that.

1)Can my dog say hi to you dog
2)Can we turn them around so they can smelll each others butts

Don't get me started on Cesar Milan. He's a phoney a lot of the time. He uses methods that he doesn't tell the general public about (prong collars/shock collars/kicks).

By all means try taking him to a training class if there's one near you. You might want to phone them first, though, and explain the problems you're having. Stress that he isn't aggressive, just over excitable.

And please, never turn a nervous or highly excited dog around for a strange dog to sniff it's butt! You're asking for trouble. Some dogs just don't like it, and it can turn them aggressive - something you obviously don't want to happen.

Gee wrote:Yeah I guess I am...but how come Cesar Milan sorts dogs in 1 day? Big Grin Would of took him sometime to settle in too, so I guess I can't expect too much given his history. He knows no better.

Cesar Milan knows a lot about the way dogs behave but I don't agreee with a lot of his methods and I never believe that what you see on TV is anything like reality.
You are doing well with Troy but don't expect overnight miracles. Be patient and celebrate every small improvement. They all add up.
I don't think you see your fully adult, experienced dog until they are getting on for four years old. Up until then, their bodies may be mature but they are still immature mentally.
If you are lucky, you may have Troy for another ten years or more. There's plenty of time.

I think you are doing well. Just have patience and continue to train hom every day and he will be fine