Pack Leader?

by kandydragons Wed Nov 27 2013, 21:50

I am interested to see how many of you believe in the pack leader training (if thats its official name).

I am keen to let Roman know that I am the boss and that he is bottom of the pack. I enforce this by us humans eating before him, never allowing him to sleep on or bed (pack leaders always sleep higher than the rest of the pack) and not allowing him to enter a room before me etc.

Is this just out dated advice or do you think there is something to it?

My other half is a lot more relaxed with him (although the bed thing still stands) and Roman is deffo more obedient with me and more attached to me as well.

by **Sazzle** Wed Nov 27 2013, 21:57

Out dated advise defintely Smile

Dogs don't see us as part of their pack, its been discredited I believe.

by kandydragons Wed Nov 27 2013, 22:02

It will be interesting to see who does still do this. Its always been drummed into me that this is what you do with a dog and Roman seems to benefit from it.

I would really love him in bed with me though lol. My other half works nights so it would be nice to cuddle pup but I dont want to start that habit as we will have a newborn baby in 4 months who will most likely be in my bed!

by Guest Wed Nov 27 2013, 22:44

Outdated and discredited, I'm afraid! Tongues

The man who originally came up with the Pack Leader Theory actually discredited it himself!

by **reuben** Thu Nov 28 2013, 11:13

I cherry pick the kindest parts of the Pack Leader advice from various books and on-line sources and mix them with common sense and it has always worked for me. It could just be coincidence of course but I choose not to discount it entirely and have a very contented, loving, loyal and, in the main, well behaved wee boy. But I also believe that much of the success in dog training comes from the messages which we may, consciously or subconciously, send our dogs as they are extremely perceptive.

Anyway, whatever works for you providing it doesn't make your dog unhappy is the way forward.

by Guest Thu Nov 28 2013, 11:19

Humans cannot be a dog's 'pack leader'. Dogs know we are not dogs, and so it's impossible. It's more noticable if you have more than one dog - the dogs will sort out their own hierarchy (which can change from time to time) but will all equally defer to you.

The Pack Leader theory was thought up by a guy who studied a pack of wolves & noted their way of dealing with things. However, there were two problems with this...
1. the wolves were a captive, 'put together' bunch and not family members. The behaviour they displayed was actually quite different to a normal pack's behaviour.
2. Our dogs are not wolves and although they may well have descended from them, they are far removed from them through evolution and interraction with human beings.

THe best way To train a dog/puppy is through mainly positive reinforcement, not dominance. Get your dog to work with you because he wants to, not for you because he has to.

by **reuben** Thu Nov 28 2013, 11:44

As I said. I cherry pick advice from various sources ( including this forum whose advice has been invaluable ) and it works for me. But I don't believe anyone who knows me or my dog could accuse me of using dominance.

by Guest Thu Nov 28 2013, 11:45

reuben wrote:As I said. I cherry pick advice from various sources ( including this forum whose advice has been invaluable ) and it works for me. But I don't believe anyone who knows me or my dog could accuse me of using dominance.

No, my post wasn't aimed at you, Rodger! Wink

by **Debs01** Thu Nov 28 2013, 11:52

I definitely don't use the pack leader theory, Axl sleeps on my bed with me, sometimes with his head on my pillow if i'm not watching... he's very good though I have no problems with him so far Big Grin

by **Kathy** Thu Nov 28 2013, 12:09

No pack leader theory used here either, Rocky sleeps on the bed with us and is treated as the pet dog that he is.

by **Sazzle** Thu Nov 28 2013, 13:21

I have used solely positive reinforsement training (voice marker training) and an very happy with the results Smile

by Guest Thu Nov 28 2013, 13:40

Sazzle wrote:I have used solely positive reinforsement training (voice marker training) and an very happy with the results

Same here

by **reuben** Thu Nov 28 2013, 17:35

I don't allow Bacchus on our bed. Sad

Nothing to do with the pack theory, but we already have 2 Siamese and a big moggie we have to share with at wits end

( they've been here a lot longer than Bacchus) and a 20 kilo staffy who could fart for Scotland

would be the last straw. Laughing

by rescuestaffords Thu Nov 28 2013, 17:46

Pack leader and dominance theory's are way out dated!

Positive training, socialising, routine, exercise and stimulation and you'll have a well behaved dog.

by Guest Thu Nov 28 2013, 18:02

No pack theory here either and both boys sleep on our bed Big Grin

by Guest Thu Nov 28 2013, 20:37

reuben wrote:a 20 kilo staffy who could fart for Scotland would be the last straw.

by **jo garnett** Thu Nov 28 2013, 20:44

Dogs just adore us because we feed them and take care of them. Our 2 sleep with us. No 'pack' stuff at all.

by kandydragons Thu Nov 28 2013, 23:47

rescuestaffords wrote:Pack leader and dominance theory's are way out dated!

Positive training, socialising, routine, exercise and stimulation and you'll have a well behaved dog.

The above is pretty much what I do but with some "pack leader" stuff built in. I never bully Roman and he is such a happy little man. When I take him out everyone comments on how well behaved he is Big Grin

by Guest Fri Nov 29 2013, 00:18

My two sleep on my bed, and the dogs are allowed on the sofas ect too! I also let them do whatever they want in the house by the way of letting them enter rooms before me, and letting them go anywhere
too! I think as long as they know you're in charge, and have set rules and boundaries you can't really go wrong! Smile

pack leader is definitely out dated, and from what you've said he probably obeys you more as you have a lot more authority and rules than your partner! Same goes with my mom, she does what I do but they don't listen to her at all, where as I am the rule inforcer so they listen to me Big Grin

same principle applies to everyone I guess! Someone's always going to have more authority than someone else in the house and that person seems to be you! They also adore my mom, but they're way more attached to me than her - they also misbehave and pull when she holds the lead where as they walk to heal with me Big Grin

I ALWAYS make sure that I leave the house first when walking them! They get no-where if they're not sitting Smile

I think as long as you're happy wth you're method and the dogs happy then there's no reason to change Smile

by **reuben** Fri Nov 29 2013, 09:43

kandydragons wrote:
rescuestaffords wrote:Pack leader and dominance theory's are way out dated!

Positive training, socialising, routine, exercise and stimulation and you'll have a well behaved dog.
The above is pretty much what I do but with some "pack leader" stuff built in. I never bully Roman and he is such a happy little man. When I take him out everyone comments on how well behaved he is

Ditto.

by Guest Fri Nov 29 2013, 16:42

there is just no need to use any pack leader stuff, it's outdated and frankly crap.

by **reuben** Fri Nov 29 2013, 16:52

ella wrote:there is just no need to use any pack leader stuff, it's outdated and frankly crap.

Come on. Don't sit on the fence. Laughing

by Guest Fri Nov 29 2013, 16:55

reuben wrote:
ella wrote:there is just no need to use any pack leader stuff, it's outdated and frankly crap.
Come on. Don't sit on the fence.

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