Neutering/Spaying

I read a thread posted in another thread about the cons/pros of neutering/spaying a dog before a certain age or at all.

Now I have a few questions, first off, what do you do if you haven't fixed your dog and you take them on walks/to the dog park and they spend the entire time trying to mate another unfixed dog? There's also been an increase in people breaking into homes and stealing dogs they know are unfixed in the area I live in, usually toy dogs like chihuahuas and things like that and Staffies, Rotties, anything that can be bred and sold to idiots who want a status dog or dogs they can stick in handbags.

My previous female dog died a very painful death involving infection of her uterus which spread to her liver and stomach, which caused her uterus, according to the surgeon to basically burst, all because we didn't get her fixed so I want the best for Tiger and would like opinions on whether or not she should be spayed at around 6/7 months of age, I never want to risk what happened to Roxy happening to another dog but I don't want to harm her growth, especially since she's already going to have growing problems because of her elbow.

I'm going to talk to the vet about this next time I see him, probably to take her in for surgery on her leg, but I'd like some opinions from here too.

I understand the risks from both sides but, given I saw how painful it was for Roxy, the multiple surgeries just to try and help her even in the slightest and then being told her uterus had burst and her liver failed, I don't know whether I can even consider putting Tiger at that risk, no matter how small it is but I also don't want to stunt her development. I'm having real trouble deciding what would likely be best for her in the long run, waiting until she's fully matured or doing it as she's a puppy.

For a female, I think it's advised to wait until after they've had their first season, and even better to wait until after their second if you can manage it. So you wouldn't be looking at waiting a very long time if you want her spayed.

I've never had an unspayed female, so can't really comment much, but I know when they're in season you take them for walks in quiet areas at quieter times so it's as empty as possible. And obviously kept on-lead at all times.

If you don't mind, I'll take your post point by point....

Kitt wrote:Now I have a few questions, first off, what do you do if you haven't fixed your dog and you take them on walks/to the dog park and they spend the entire time trying to mate another unfixed dog?

Humping is not confined to entire dogs. Neutered and unneutered dogs (and bitches!) will often hump either out of over-excitement or just to prove they are dominant. Training is the way forward here, stepping in and correcting every time a dog tries to do this.

Kitt wrote: There's also been an increase in people breaking into homes and stealing dogs they know are unfixed in the area I live in, usually toy dogs like chihuahuas and things like that and Staffies, Rotties, anything that can be bred and sold to idiots who want a status dog or dogs they can stick in handbags.

That is a problem. However, a bitch won't have any signs that she's been neutered. A dog, obviously, will be missing certain vital attributes, but the risk is still minimal.

Kitt wrote:My previous female dog died a very painful death involving infection of her uterus which spread to her liver and stomach, which caused her uterus, according to the surgeon to basically burst, all because we didn't get her fixed so I want the best for Tiger and would like opinions on whether or not she should be spayed at around 6/7 months of age, I never want to risk what happened to Roxy happening to another dog but I don't want to harm her growth, especially since she's already going to have growing problems because of her elbow.

This also happened to my first bitch, and she is the only dog I ever had neutered. I've had 4 bitches & she was the only one that ever developed pyometra. Pyometra is a very real risk in older bitches - generally from about 3 years up, but although it can happen in younger bitches, it's rare. If you want to neuter a bitch, then the best time to do it is after her second season, or when she's 2 years old, whichever is the later.

If you neuter before full maturity (especially before 12 months of age) the growth plates will close later and you will get a leggier, narrower dog than you otherwise would have. Also, you run the risk of permanent puppy syndrome, non growth of the genitals and nervous aggression.

Kitt wrote:I understand the risks from both sides but, given I saw how painful it was for Roxy, the multiple surgeries just to try and help her even in the slightest and then being told her uterus had burst and her liver failed, I don't know whether I can even consider putting Tiger at that risk, no matter how small it is but I also don't want to stunt her development. I'm having real trouble deciding what would likely be best for her in the long run, waiting until she's fully matured or doing it as she's a puppy.

There are two types of pyometra - open and closed. Open is by far the easier to deal with because you will see puss leaking from the vulva & treatment can be given early on (normally spaying). Closed is a problem (one that your girl unfortunately had, and has to be spotted early. With both types, early diagnosis is the key & surgery will be necessary.

But as I said, it's rare for a young bitch to get it, and almost unheard of for a pup under 12 months to get it!

In the end, it's your decision, but I would always recommend waiting until at least after a second season.

Ive seen good and bad in both ways .. where people have waited to spay or neuter... or they done it as soon as poss even some cases where my friend waited for her dog to have first season and it made no difference- to a dog turning after her first season to now havin to wear a muzzle it all comes down to you in the end i think.

ANGIEMARKYOUNG wrote:Ive seen good and bad in both ways .. where people have waited to spay or neuter... or they done it as soon as poss even some cases where my friend waited for her dog to have first season and it made no difference- to a dog turning after her first season to now havin to wear a muzzle it all comes down to you in the end i think.

I don't think Kitt's worried about her pup turning nasty, just the health implications.

Caryll wrote:

ANGIEMARKYOUNG wrote:Ive seen good and bad in both ways .. where people have waited to spay or neuter... or they done it as soon as poss even some cases where my friend waited for her dog to have first season and it made no difference- to a dog turning after her first season to now havin to wear a muzzle it all comes down to you in the end i think.

I don't think Kitt's worried about her pup turning nasty, just the health implications.

i know i was just putting my opinion across that ive seen good and bad in both situations

If she keeps the personality she has now I'll never fear aggression from her, she lets the cat's get away with sleeping on top of her without so much as a peep, she's been a little naughty and nipped at two of the cats who have massively fluffy tails but she's stopped that after realizing they were attached to cats and not toys She's so passive but energetic at the same time, she's not afraid of new people or dogs, she acts like anything new is her best friend for life, the only time I've seen her scared was when a tiny 8 week old Chihuahua barked at her yesterday haha, this tiny thing that could fit in her mouth in one bite and the bark was the most high pitched thing I've ever heard but she just backed up to me and ignored him. She's such a good puppy.

I think especially with the injury to her joint, probably the worst possible place for it according to the vet, I'm likely to wait until her second season then, just to avoid any slight possibility of it affecting her damaged joint. It's a good thing I'm in all day and there's be no unsupervised play dates with Sid, Sid belongs to a neighbor who I'm somewhat convinced wants to get puppies from her and Sid when she's old enough, he asks the strangest questions but otherwise is a decent enough guy and she loves to play with Sid.

Thanks for the opinions and I'm more than happy for other people to chime in with theirs still

I personally will not and do not neuter dogs without a good medical reason to.

I only intend to keep males but the same would apply to a bitch should i get one.

Yes there are pros and cons to both sides but for me them keeping the hormones that they produce is paramount to a dog growing up to be as mentally stable a dog as possible, plus the amount of health benefits it also brings.

Plus another big thing for me is the unnecessary risk of general aesthetic

No pics of Tiger Lilly and Sid playing together for us then?

Ella, I would feel the same if what happened to Roxy hadn't, it was such a painful thing to watch, we have a Terrier Milo who still isn't neutered and he's, well we don't know, he was an old dog when we got him 6 years ago according to the vet and he's built like a tank, never had a single health problem since we've had him, it's always female animals I have problems with ha.

Tara, they only played together once or twice before she hurt her leg and she wasn't allowed anymore play time but when she's all healed up there'll be pictures none stop.

I sympathise with you over your bitch's illness. But please remember that pyo is primarily an older bitch's illness. As I said before, most pyometras are in bitches over 3 years, and although younger bitches can get it, it's rare.

Oh I know, I just was more referring to NEVER getting her done rather than waiting to get her done, I do plan to wait now I just would rather get her done one day than not because of what happened to Roxy. She WAS 7-8 when she got it so I understand she was older and I'd just prefer to try and avoid that in Tiger by getting her done when she's finished maturing.

Plenty of time to think about it, anyway!

She looks so cute in your avatar!

Yeah she's adorable and well behaved, for the most part, I'm hearing from the vets today on when her leg surgery is gonna be happening so that'll be good to get sorted.

Kitt wrote:Oh I know, I just was more referring to NEVER getting her done rather than waiting to get her done, I do plan to wait now I just would rather get her done one day than not because of what happened to Roxy. She WAS 7-8 when she got it so I understand she was older and I'd just prefer to try and avoid that in Tiger by getting her done when she's finished maturing.

yes pyo is a risk and yes they can get over it, it to me is still not enough reason to spay a bitch unnecessarily

So yes it's very much NEVER getting them done unless a medical reason means they have to