Vent needed...

First topic message reminder :

Yeah so it's 2:30am and I'm up to walk Troy at 5:15am before work. He decided to take a * on my bedroom floor at about 1:00am so had to clear that up and take him outside. I'm not able to get any sleep now as he is snoring his head off next to my bed.

I don't know why he did this, might of been too many treats before bed. He gets fed at 7pm and goes out before bed about 9pm and not had this before. It was kinda runny so may of been something he ate.

He has been a complete pain in the * the last couple of days also. Pulling on the lead, not listening and whining. I can't even have a relaxing seat on a park bench because he is always in an over excited state. Looks at every thing that moves, wants to go and investigate everything including people on bikes, people just having a picnic on a bench, people walking their dogs, just everything basically.

He can't just relax and sit / lay in one place, he gets agitated and tries to walk and whines.

All this business about being calm, relaxed and assertive obviously has some merit, but it doesn't matter with this dog. I was relaxed, happy, chilling on the park bench while he went nuts!

No amount of correction helps, no touch, no sound, no tugging on the leash. People make it sound so easy as if it is all my fault, I must not be calm enough, not sending positive energy, must be tension in the lead etc etc. No, this dog doesn't care, I don't even think he understands why I turn him and walk the other way when he pulls or why I tug him sideways, why I say Shh or touch him to correct, he just doesn't give a damn and gets more excited! I've tried silence and doing nothing and it didn't work.

Dunno what I'm going to do until 5:15am when my alarm goes off but it certainly isn't sleep and will have a cranky day all day now.

Tried to do a good thing rescuing a dog but Troy is turning out to be a problem dog!! Rant over.

Hi Gee.

I think you're doing an amazing job, you're doing everything you possibly can for Troy and that shows that you are fully committed.

I cant suggest anymore than has already been said, but I'll just add that at first, Charlie slept in his crate downstairs. He pooped and Pee'd EVERY NIGHT, without fail, even when he got older and could hold it. In the end, I moved him into my room to say if it made any difference - he never did it again apart from a couple times when he had an upset tummy, which obviously wasn't his fault.

I'm not saying not to move him out of your room, it may suit you both better that way, just want to tell you that in my experience, having him in my room really did help. Oh, and the snoring, as annoying as it is at first, I soon got so used to it that I couldn't fall asleep without him snoring on his bed next to me - seriously!

Good luck Gee, and keep at it. You're doing a really great job and with some more time and LOTS of patience, things WILL get better!

Gee, just a bit of advice (just my own opinion - you may feel otherwise) but I wouldn't use a chain lead on him. You can't hold the lead short without hurting your hands!

I'd get either a strong material training lead ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Long-Softex-Soft-Police-Dog-Training-Lead-4-Colours-/270749444111?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&var=&hash=item3f09eca80f ) or a leather training lead ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quality-police-dog-training-lead-leather-brown-or-Black-/130668693952?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&var=&hash=item1e6c7609c0 ).

Both these leads are adjustable so you can have it full length, 1/3 length or even half length. They are also very strong. The softex lead especially is kinder to your hands!

Keep it up Gee. Good to come here and be encuraged. There are days that we all need it. I'm only two weeks into having Piglette and she has only been willing to go out front two times. Leads are terrifying to her, people terrify her, she goes outside for 10 minutes and comes in and pees straight away. Just know always that you are not in this alone. If anybody has worked with dogs with issues, there are some verterans here like Vanessa, Ella and Julie who have been through it with their dogs.

Vanessa, I'm getting a sporn harness for Monte! He pulls like a cart horse! Frosty just does whatever Monte Does so I think if I get one for Monte, it will work for both.

[quote="vanessa (sshh did I say that?? )[/quote]

will do that and MUMS the word

It will all just take time. Nothing will happen overnight, he is still a puppy really. It's not for anyone to say that he is not the right breed for you. Any dog his age would act the exact same, he might just be a bit stronger than some.

shakespearesdog wrote:

Why would you suggest the breed is not correct for me if on the other hand you say it is something that will settle with time? If so then great. I understand that them being vocal is part of the breed but surely you can see in the video that is not normal behavior?

I'm just saying that you may need to prepare yourself that he may never be one of those really calm relaxed dogs as staffies are proper nutcases sometimes. I'm only trying to explain it to you, perhaps i'm putting it the wrong way.
I think you're doing a great job with Troy and I often think you don't give yourself or Troy enough credit for the progress you've made. One day you'll look back and be like 'Wow he used to be so naughty/hyper'
I'm actually trying to help you but I can see my advice isn't wanted. I only meant it in a friendly way but once again my comments are being misconstrued agaisnt me so I won't bother to post anymore.

Perhaps it's how you word them that makes them come across wrong. You then always get defensive and "ill just go away then" instead of just going Oh sorry i didnt mean it like that and moving on..

Perhaps it's how you word them that makes them come across wrong. You then always get defensive and "ill just go away then" instead of just going Oh sorry i didnt mean it like that and moving on..

I've apologised for offending people lots of times. I don't think I need to apologise for what I said, I was pointing out that staffies can be jumpy and hyper all lifelong and not like the neighbours doped up cav spaniel. I'd imagine that's one of the reasons we love them so much.

Ben, let me know how you go with the sporn harness..and you too Julie, if you get one!

I was just annoyed because I paid nearly $50 for mine at the shop and then saw them that night on ebay for about $25 !! ( I hate getting ripped off! )

shakespearesdog wrote:

Perhaps it's how you word them that makes them come across wrong. You then always get defensive and "ill just go away then" instead of just going Oh sorry i didnt mean it like that and moving on..

I've apologised for offending people lots of times. I don't think I need to apologise for what I said, I was pointing out that staffies can be jumpy and hyper all lifelong and not like the neighbours doped up cav spaniel. I'd imagine that's one of the reasons we love them so much.

Im sure it is. But i think the best way to learn about them is to throw yourself in the deep end. If you have the heart to do it and get through it you will be a better person for it. I can't stand people who get dopey dogs and baby them then can't even stroke a normal dog right because they are so dopey themselves and assume all the dogs in the world are the same as their little precious darlings. Everyone should own a psycho dog once just to teach them a lesson lol

shontelle wrote:Hi Gee.

I think you're doing an amazing job, you're doing everything you possibly can for Troy and that shows that you are fully committed.

I cant suggest anymore than has already been said, but I'll just add that at first, Charlie slept in his crate downstairs. He pooped and Pee'd EVERY NIGHT, without fail, even when he got older and could hold it. In the end, I moved him into my room to say if it made any difference - he never did it again apart from a couple times when he had an upset tummy, which obviously wasn't his fault.

I'm not saying not to move him out of your room, it may suit you both better that way, just want to tell you that in my experience, having him in my room really did help. Oh, and the snoring, as annoying as it is at first, I soon got so used to it that I couldn't fall asleep without him snoring on his bed next to me - seriously!

Good luck Gee, and keep at it. You're doing a really great job and with some more time and LOTS of patience, things WILL get better!

Thanks.

Troy had anxiety when I first got him too, would poop and pee if I tried leaving him a lone. I don't think he would do this again as I leave him home when I go to work and he is fine but he would be whimpering if I just tried to have him downstairs by himself. I don't mind him being upstairs, it's just the snoring

Usually I am a sleep when he snores so it doesn't wake me, but I had just cleaned up his poop and he goes back to sleep without a care in the world and there's me rolling around not being able to sleep due to his snoring. Charming!

I'll definitely keep it up though.

Caryll wrote:Gee, just a bit of advice (just my own opinion - you may feel otherwise) but I wouldn't use a chain lead on him. You can't hold the lead short without hurting your hands!

I'd get either a strong material training lead ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Long-Softex-Soft-Police-Dog-Training-Lead-4-Colours-/270749444111?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&var=&hash=item3f09eca80f ) or a leather training lead ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quality-police-dog-training-lead-leather-brown-or-Black-/130668693952?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&var=&hash=item1e6c7609c0 ).

Both these leads are adjustable so you can have it full length, 1/3 length or even half length. They are also very strong. The softex lead especially is kinder to your hands!

Hey,

I have actually already considered this, but I usually wear clothes so I have been okay so far. GF would probably throw a wally if I didn't use the lead 'she bought'

bbimson wrote:Keep it up Gee. Good to come here and be encouraged. There are days that we all need it. I'm only two weeks into having Piglette and she has only been willing to go out front two times. Leads are terrifying to her, people terrify her, she goes outside for 10 minutes and comes in and pees straight away. Just know always that you are not in this alone. If anybody has worked with dogs with issues, there are some veterans here like Vanessa, Ella and Julie who have been through it with their dogs.

Vanessa, I'm getting a sporn harness for Monte! He pulls like a cart horse! Frosty just does whatever Monte Does so I think if I get one for Monte, it will work for both.

Thanks for the support. I'd seen others get annoyed and come here to vent so thought I'd try it too haha! And I have got a lot of encouragement and advice from doing so.

Equi wrote:It will all just take time. Nothing will happen overnight, he is still a puppy really. It's not for anyone to say that he is not the right breed for you. Any dog his age would act the exact same, he might just be a bit stronger than some.

Thanks. Put's it in perspective hearing other peoples experiences and how he is still young.

no dog is perfect and you will see that even the best trained ones still have their off days

My two make that noise, it is out of frustration when they can't get what they want etc

I would suggest trying a dogmatic head collar to stop the pulling as it worked wonder with Chance who at 42kg ambull is immensely strong and it gives you great control over their walking

So yes i would say you have a very typical staffy

Gee wrote:I have actually already considered this, but I usually wear clothes so I have been okay so far. GF would probably throw a wally if I didn't use the lead 'she bought'

I should hope you do!

Or do you mean gloves?

I've looked at the video and he seems normal to me, just excited. My last staffy and kenny have made this noise, usually when theres another dog and they wanted to play. I would'nt feel to down about things. I believe it will calm down. Im haveing similar probs with kenny at the min, but believe its is age. good luck. Have you thought about classes?

It's hard work. Chin up xxx

All of Troy's behaviour sounds soo much like Rascal. She's 12mths old and still pulls like mad on her lead! The only thing that seems to work with her is for me to come to a complete stop and when she turns to look at me, I say "heel" (she learned "heel" a while back). When she comes back beside me I walk again - usually she will immediately start to pull again, so I stop and repeat the process. Some days, it can take us 20mins to walk 15mtrs to the dog park gate We taught "heel" by holding a treat in a closed hand (like Jstaff recommended), and initially treated her every time she came to 'heel', then gradually started treating every second or third time, then randomly.

Yesterday was the first time she walked a couple of metres without pulling - she has not yet walked nicely with us on her lead, but I'm sure she'll get it.

Troy really does sound like a typical Staffy. I know Rascal is super excitable - her whole body wags with excitement when she sees people or other dogs - all she's learned about "watch" "heel" and "leave it" gets forgotten in her excitement! *sigh* Keep up the good work Gee, it's worth it.

It sounds like you're following a Cesar Milan style of training? I know for some people and dogs his methods don't always achieve the desired outcome. There's been discussions here about him, both for and against. I'm not a big fan, but do employ some of his tips. I know he works wonders with "damaged" dogs, so won't take anything away from him there I watched a young guy the other day in the dog park "alpha roll" a GSD. He works for a doggy daycare type business. I remember considering what I would do to him if he tried that with Rascal! I was also wondering what she would do to him should he try that on her

Hang in there mate, it will get better

Thanks everyone.

His behaviour differs from day to day! One day like last night he is walking very nicely and seems to be responding to corrections.

Other days he is just a complete nightmare.

What do you guys think about using these devices to stop them pulling? I don't want to feel like a failure as a handler. I'd rather my dog was well trained and listened to me and walked nicely! I'll consider it though.

Depends what 'devices' you mean.

What do you guys think about using these devices to stop them pulling? I don't want to feel like a failure as a handler. I'd rather my dog was well trained and listened to me and walked nicely! I'll consider it though.

What sort of device? I still recommend a halti, those things are great. If it makes you feel any better Romeo pulled so much the other day that he's cut under his armpits and can't wear his harness for a while. To honest I didn't even notice he was pulling, thats the tricky thing about harnesses.
In the meantime while your training Troy you should get him a really wide, padded collar. This is for his benefit, so he doesn't hurt his neck.
Romeo's a complete prat sometimes and if he feels like pulling will pull against anything, even his choke chain.
Something like this is good:
http://strong-stuff.mysite.orange.co.uk/
Those police leads Caryll recommended are really good as well, you can lengthen them and clip them up. A shorter lead is better for control.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dog-Training-Lead-GSD-Springer-Spaniel-Police-/310227739703?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&var=&hash=item483b03a437
I think you worry too much about what other people think of Troy. I'm sure all the people staring (if they are) just think what a cutie pie he is.

hey,

I dont know if anyone has suggested this as i have not read the whole post just seen the vt of when he is at the park. when you pull him back on a couple of occasions you expose his chest.. this to a dog is kinda like putting them in the aggression stance... you have seen my chest so lets go.. try pulling him to the side with out exposing his chest. also i am very fortunate in the fact that my staffy is anxious but she is calm. when river gets agitated and i cant take her for a walk at the precise moment, i knot up some old cloth, either daughter old tights or t shirt or something, and hide her favorite treats in there,, keeps her amused for ages plus it mentally stimulates her.

i will say thou keep at it..its about earning his respect. who knows what has happen to him in the past once you have his respect then he wont feel the need to protect you anymore, i think this is what he is doing. im not sure wether you are allowed to post links in here, if not please remove the link but these ppl are non domanit behavouirsts and there stuff works they have helped loads of ppl i know including myself, you could also give them a ring and they will advise you best they can over the phone. they are super busy at the moment thou so please be patient with a reply. http://www.connorslegacy.co.uk/

Caryll wrote:Depends what 'devices' you mean.

A kick in the nuts

Guys,

Thanks for the replies, I'll look into what has been suggested and get back to ya's.

And in regards to pulling Troy, it is from the side I correct him, I don't pull him back.

Thanks.

Gee wrote:

Caryll wrote:Depends what 'devices' you mean.

A kick in the nuts

.

damn. i just had lemmy's chaopped off

Gee wrote:

Caryll wrote:Depends what 'devices' you mean.

A kick in the nuts

Guys,

Thanks for the replies, I'll look into what has been suggested and get back to ya's.

And in regards to pulling Troy, it is from the side I correct him, I don't pull him back.

Thanks.

Yes, pull to the side. That way he uses his strength against himself & he'll turn away.

_julie_ wrote:

Gee wrote:

Caryll wrote:Depends what 'devices' you mean.

A kick in the nuts

.

damn. i just had lemmy's chaopped off

Oooops! Too late!

shakespearesdog wrote:

What do you guys think about using these devices to stop them pulling? I don't want to feel like a failure as a handler. I'd rather my dog was well trained and listened to me and walked nicely! I'll consider it though.

What sort of device? I still recommend a halti, those things are great. If it makes you feel any better Romeo pulled so much the other day that he's cut under his armpits and can't wear his harness for a while. To honest I didn't even notice he was pulling, thats the tricky thing about harnesses.
In the meantime while your training Troy you should get him a really wide, padded collar. This is for his benefit, so he doesn't hurt his neck.
Romeo's a complete prat sometimes and if he feels like pulling will pull against anything, even his choke chain.
Something like this is good:
http://strong-stuff.mysite.orange.co.uk/
Those police leads Caryll recommended are really good as well, you can lengthen them and clip them up. A shorter lead is better for control.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dog-Training-Lead-GSD-Springer-Spaniel-Police-/310227739703?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&var=&hash=item483b03a437
I think you worry too much about what other people think of Troy. I'm sure all the people staring (if they are) just think what a cutie pie he is.

Thanks for the link. I like the look of those collars. Look like some real time and effort are put into them. Have you ordered from this person below?

They don't seem to have a secure form of payment like Paypal, so could just take my money and run haha.

i would suggest a half check collar works well with river.. also my reply was just in response to the video you shared, where you was pulling back and his chest was exposed, didnt mean any offense just offering advise...

No offense taken at all

I'm still tempted by an Ezydog collar too, they seem pretty cool!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/EzyDog-Collar-Black-Neoprene-Medium/dp/B002S8GC18/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1332772531&sr=8-7

flame wrote:i would suggest a half check collar works well with river.. also my reply was just in response to the video you shared, where you was pulling back and his chest was exposed, didnt mean any offense just offering advise...

we have the half check ones on our 2. lemmy is like a tank with a harness the collar seems to help him more

I searched about the half check collars and it says it 'checks' without choking? Is it just uncomfortable or something and can they be worn all the time or for just training?

Gee wrote:I searched about the half check collars and it says it 'checks' without choking? Is it just uncomfortable or something and can they be worn all the time or for just training?

we leave them on all the time. in our case it gives me something to grab when i need to get hold of one of them which isnt easy theyre quicker than me

Sorry I mean when on a leash, would you always use it or only for training?

Thanks for the link. I like the look of those collars. Look like some real time and effort are put into them. Have you ordered from this person below?

They don't seem to have a secure form of payment like Paypal, so could just take my money and run haha.

Personally I have not because Romeo has a very short neck and can't wear those sorts of collars but I have known several people that have ordered from them and been really pleased, as far as I know they are completely legit.

We bought a Sporn to use with Rascal. It worked for a while, but then she seemed to get used to the feeling of the straps tightening around her shoulders and it no longer bothered her! Just seemed to give her something more comfortable to pull against So we're back to the collar and taking hours to walk a few meters!

Rascal.... you are a little rascal !!

Oooh Vanessa she sooooo is!!!!!! I'll have to post some up to date photos of her, she and Winston could be siblings!!!

oops, this is Rascal-girl signed in under hubby's login!!! hehehe

rascal_dog wrote:Oooh Vanessa she sooooo is!!!!!! I'll have to post some up to date photos of her, she and Winston could be siblings!!!

I hope you do !!