Cesar Milan..............again!

by Guest Mon Jul 18 2011, 20:22

I know I'm always banging on about how I don't like him, but every so often more things come to light that confirm that feeling. For example............

Cesar Milan..............again! Cm

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and take a quick look at this site............

http://beyondcesarmillan.weebly.com/index.html

by **Msigler** Mon Jul 18 2011, 20:28

I've always prefered Victoria over Caesar...

by **dkay72** Mon Jul 18 2011, 20:48

wonder why mike, is it the leggings Laughing

i like ceaser but like anything caryll theres allways behind the seens

by **Msigler** Mon Jul 18 2011, 20:51

dkay72 wrote:wonder why mike, is it the leggings i like ceaser but like anything caryll theres allways behind the seens

You got me. Laughing

She's very thorough. Big Grin

by Guest Mon Jul 18 2011, 20:52

I really can't stand him. The more I hear about him the less I like him. I started off thinking he was a bit 'ott' but basically understood dogs. But I don't think he does understand them.

If he understood them he wouldn't constantly resort to violence.

by Guest Mon Jul 18 2011, 21:54

I really don't like him or his 'techniques' yes they may work, but the dogs always seem to be left terrified of him

by **Msigler** Mon Jul 18 2011, 21:58

I think he is good at taming very aggessive dogs but other than that, I haven't seen him do anything I can't do or do it better.

by Guest Tue Jul 19 2011, 03:25

aw I never knew people didn't like cesar Sad

my mum and I love his shows Blushing

must admit I hadn't heard the behind the scenes things.

I still like his show though....

by Guest Tue Jul 19 2011, 08:42

Msigler wrote:I've always prefered Victoria over Caesar...

what show is that.

something he says make sense, but the more i read about him the less and less i like him, that article is awful poor dog

by Guest Tue Jul 19 2011, 11:37

russdogmum wrote:aw I never knew people didn't like cesar my mum and I love his shows
must admit I hadn't heard the behind the scenes things.

I still like his show though....

His shows are good as 'shows', but they give people the wrong impression of his 'training' methods and what can be acheived with them. Almost anyone can make a dog behave through violence, pain & fear.

by Guest Tue Jul 19 2011, 17:50

lynne wrote:
Msigler wrote:I've always prefered Victoria over Caesar...

what show is that.

something he says make sense, but the more i read about him the less and less i like him, that article is awful poor dog

Victoria does 'it's me or the dog'

by Guest Wed Jul 20 2011, 15:16

I used to idolise Cesar Milan. But since joining this forum, I've realised what a fraud he is and how abusive his methods are,ESPECIALLy the behind the scenes stuff.

Vicoria Stillwell on the other hand, clearly knows her stuff and obviously cares a great deal about dogs. She can get the same results as Cesar - in a much kinder way.

by Guest Wed Jul 20 2011, 15:29

ella wrote:
lynne wrote:
Msigler wrote:I've always prefered Victoria over Caesar...

what show is that.

something he says make sense, but the more i read about him the less and less i like him, that article is awful poor dog

Victoria does 'it's me or the dog'

thank you

by Pittboss Wed Jul 20 2011, 19:19

I am a fan of ceaser's exercise discipline affection model but I'm not a fan of all his methods.I think he uses the physical training method because the results are almost immediate and he does not have weeks or months to fix the issues that most of the dogs are having.I have watched his show many times and I like how he never blames the dog for the issues it is almost always the owner that needs training not the dog.I understand that most here don't like the physical training method but I think that ceaser's heart is in the right place and he has helped many families and there dogs.I have not seen "It's me or the dog"but i will be on the lookout for it now.

by Guest Wed Jul 20 2011, 19:23

Pittboss wrote:I am a fan of ceaser's exercise discipline affection model but I'm not a fan of all his methods.I think he uses the physical training method because the results are almost immediate and he does not have weeks or months to fix the issues that most of the dogs are having.I have watched his show many times and I like how he never blames the dog for the issues it is almost always the owner that needs training not the dog.I understand that most here don't like the physical training method but I think that ceaser's heart is in the right place and he has helped many families and there dogs.I have not seen "It's me or the dog"but i will be on the lookout for it now.

I agree with his basics, such as the exercise, discipline and affection, and to some extent, he does know dogs. But his methods, or at least the more physical ones, will prob do more harm than good in the end. Victoria Stillwell only has limited time to retrain dogs (and their owners) but she doesnt resort to physical abuse to get her results. And considering the amount Cesar charges, he should allow it to take as long as it takes to train their dogs.

by Guest Wed Jul 20 2011, 20:10

Pittboss wrote:I am a fan of ceaser's exercise discipline affection model but I'm not a fan of all his methods.I think he uses the physical training method because the results are almost immediate and he does not have weeks or months to fix the issues that most of the dogs are having.I have watched his show many times and I like how he never blames the dog for the issues it is almost always the owner that needs training not the dog.I understand that most here don't like the physical training method but I think that ceaser's heart is in the right place and he has helped many families and there dogs.I have not seen "It's me or the dog"but i will be on the lookout for it now.

The results don't have to be immediate - the programme is filmed over several days/weeks, so he usually has plenty of time to get his results.

Why, then, does he resort to physical abuse - kicking, e-collars, prong collars etc? Why not abuse the owners?

Maybe, but he has also failed, and caused an awful lot of fear and distress to the dogs he claims to 'love'.

by Pittboss Wed Jul 20 2011, 20:28

I am not sure I would say it is abuse but I understand how you feel.I think that we have changed how we raise our pets along with how we raise our children.There is the old school method of spare the rod spoil the child and this was used for many many years and is still used in some homes today.It is effective but can cause mental damage to the child as well as the pet.In the modern world the pc method is used more often than not and has been proven to be as effective without the risk of damage to the mind of the child or pet.It sounds to me like Victoria Stillwell is more of the modern method and I would like to see her in action.I'm not sure if she is on here in the states.Does she have a website for her show?

by Guest Wed Jul 20 2011, 20:34

In the UK now, 'spare the rod, spoil the child' would be considered physical abuse & the child could be put in the protection of the local authorities! It isn't particularly effective, it just breeds resentment. Obeying through pain/fear is never good, and with dogs, they'll often get to a point where they overload on the pain & fear & either go to pieces or become very aggressive.

Pittboss wrote:Victoria Stillwell is more of the modern method and I would like to see her in action.I'm not sure if she is on here in the states.Does she have a website for her show?

When I was in San Francisco 3 years ago she was on the tv there! I couldn't believe it - all that way, and I was watching an english tv programme!

by Pittboss Wed Jul 20 2011, 20:52

Caryll wrote:
Pittboss wrote:I am a fan of ceaser's exercise discipline affection model but I'm not a fan of all his methods.I think he uses the physical training method because the results are almost immediate and he does not have weeks or months to fix the issues that most of the dogs are having.I have watched his show many times and I like how he never blames the dog for the issues it is almost always the owner that needs training not the dog.I understand that most here don't like the physical training method but I think that ceaser's heart is in the right place and he has helped many families and there dogs.I have not seen "It's me or the dog"but i will be on the lookout for it now.

The results don't have to be immediate - the programme is filmed over several days/weeks, so he usually has plenty of time to get his results.

Why, then, does he resort to physical abuse - kicking, e-collars, prong collars etc? Why not abuse the owners?

Maybe, but he has also failed, and caused an awful lot of fear and distress to the dogs he claims to 'love'.

Caryll nice work on making your points I like the color code Big Grin

.I am not condoning his methods or stating that his method is correct.He is more of the old school and I myself was raised this way and I have raised other dogs in the past(in my teens and 20's) with the same concept.However after raising children with a more modern method I have decided to use these similar tools in raising Blue.I did initially resort to my old school ways but after hearing the opinions here I have been using the same type of tools I used with my children and the results so far have been good.It does take a bit more time and effort but all in all my little guy is worth it.As far as ceaser's heart not being in the right place I do not agree with you.When I was due a spanking as a child I know my mother did it with love in her heart and I feel ceaser is the same way.

by Guest Wed Jul 20 2011, 21:00

Unfortunately, although I think he started out with the best intentions (even if they were outdated!), money began to become more important than the animals themselves. He charges exhorbitant fees, and so has to provide a 'result' very quickly in order to justify it.

His methods may well provide a 'quick fix' solution, but that does not make them right.

As to spanking a child, yes my mother spanked me occasionally, but I can't say that it ever had the desired effect on me - I just resented it. I made sure, when I had my kids, that I would not follow the same road as my parents & both mine are well adjusted & behave well without physical violence (which is what it is) being used.

New methods of training dogs have been proved to be much more effective long term, and make for a much happier dog. Cesar has never grasped that. Or maybe he just doesn't want to.

by Guest Wed Jul 20 2011, 22:13

He'd be out of a job, and out of pocket, if he did grasp it.

by **Aniemother** Fri Jul 22 2011, 19:23

That man just rubs me the wrong way.. He says some good stuff, but only the tings that are common sense (like - dogs need exercise). His personality makes me want to run away screaming, though, he's just so smug and annoying. Laughing

When you combine that with some really backwards ideas and animal cruelty... doh

I don't quite think modern parenting and modern dog training can be compared. A lot of what is called modern parenting is really all about pretending what your kid does is always right. With my work I see so many parents just letting their kids go wild and do whatever they want.. You can hardly call it parenting at all..

Modern dog training, based on behavior studies, is a scientific approach.. (It works well with kids, too, but isn't used nearly enough Laughing

) I love an example from Karen Pryor's book "Don't shoot the dog" (SO worth a read btw, it's not all about dogs like you might think from the title). KP held a clicker training class and most of the participants had pets to train on, but not all. One, a mother of young twins, used the clicker training principles to teach her kids to get into bed when they should as they had quite a bit of trouble with it. The kids' grandmother babysat a lot, and was included in the training. Later grandma gets a dog and has some issues with, her daughter suggest using the clicker training on her dog and grandma answers "Well it works great on kids, but I'm not sure it'll work on a dog." Laughing

It's all about what you associate it with, isn't it. Big Grin

by Guest Fri Jul 22 2011, 20:03

Aniemother wrote: grandma answers "Well it works great on kids, but I'm not sure it'll work on a dog." It's all about what you associate it with, isn't it.

by Guest Fri Jul 22 2011, 20:30

This is bull seriousely there is NO proof to any of these things he is supposed to of done, you guys know how bad the media can be, since atleast once a week we are dissing them for giving our dogs a bad name, There is no evidence that CM causes harm or pain to any of the dogs he works with. all this is rubish by people who do not agree with his methods so they are trying to ruin this guys rep,The only reason people complain so much about his work is because THEY can not do it, they try it at home, they do it all wrong and they blame him or their dogs rather than themselves., yes he uses collars i do not agree with, but if used by a professional (which he is) and it can stop dogs being pts then why not. Yes he is old school but you know what old school sometimes is the best way for reaching into the dogs core rather than its stomach.
victoria what a waist of time she is, she never gets to the deep inners of a dog she just throws food at it, I am sorry but i am never ever going to pay my dogs for listening to me, they listen because they WANT too, not for a treat. when i tell my lot to do something they look at me into my eyes not my hand waiting for a treat.
whats the bet all of her clients dogs are atleast 10lb heavier by now.
If you do not like something or someone then distance yourself away from them not make up all this rubish to try and get the attention and a reaction. who ever makes up this rubish seriousely needs to get a life of their own and stop prying into someone elses. There is no (real) proof he has done any of these things.
He has saved thousands of dogs and if any of those dogs got put down in the end its because of their useless owners wanting a quick fix rather than work on it for months which is what it takes and he claims that in almost every episode, telling them to keep working on it.
CW goes really deep when working with these dogs , Victoria doesn't even scratch the surface my god she doesn't even have the right tools to scratch the surface.
If done the right way with a professional guide CM's techniques will last forever.
Victorias will last until the treats do!

by **Aniemother** Fri Jul 22 2011, 21:13

I have to say I don't really care about all the "extra's" that turn up about him, but they do fit the impression he gives up on TV as being all about appearances and not about what's really going on with the dog and how it will work in the long term. I haven't watched a lot of Victoria's show, but at least it doesn't make me sick just watching it. She's not perfect either (few are, right?).

CM's methods are similar to what we did when I was growing up, and no way I'd ever have more dogs trained like that. You might not know the difference when it's all you've ever known, but once I started learning about behavior and learning and all that stuff and used it instead I know how much better you relate to your dogs with proper training methods.

by Guest Fri Jul 22 2011, 23:23

CM doesn't train the dogs what he does is completly different he works with the animal side which is where most of the common behaviours come from.
Trainers work with the dog/breed and if they do not work with the animal side then you are just asking for trouble because the animal side is the most powerful which needs "taming"
Your dog acts aggressive towards a dog, you try to get its attention with a treat or command, that dog is still feeling that aggression but instead he is now looking at you.
CM stops that aggression and puts them in a stable frame of mind allowing them to be calm, so when the dog does look at you its calm.

by Guest Fri Jul 22 2011, 23:33

Claire, I appreciate that you like Cesar's methods. All I'm saying is that I don't. I don't like causing pain to a dog just to get it to obey. I don't like kicking a dog into the air to stop a certain behaviour. You say there's no proof, but there are videos showing what he has done. Kicking, shock collars to the point of terrifying a dog, pinning to the ground. It's all wrong.

I'm going to be very controversial now & say that, despite the fact that I love dogs and always have done, if I had a dog that was so aggressive it could only be controlled by violence & fear (which is what CM does), I would have that dog pts.

A dog controlled by violence/force/fear will one day rise above that violence and retaliate.

by Guest Sat Jul 23 2011, 00:21

so now your saying that because i agree with his way of thinking i like causing pain to dogs just to get them to obey? like kicking a dog into the air to stop a certain behaviour?. How dare you Caryl i have never laid a finger on my dogs in a negative way and i never will, he does not beat dogs, he doesn't kick them into the air, all your watching is what people have made and edited.
CM knows how a dogs mind, body and behaviour work unlike all these backwards trainers these days. Do i agree with the collars he has used no i do not but i understand why he should of used them there and then, all you see on these videos is a dog shaking, yelping etc dogs do don't only do these things because they are scared or in pain just like a dog growling doesn't mean aggression its a way of communication. dogs yawn when they are tired and when they are thinking, they yelp when they play are in pain or a sudden shock, they shake from nerves, too much adrenaline or when they are over coming a drastic change like anxiety and their body needs to get rid of the chemicals.

by Guest Sat Jul 23 2011, 14:54

MissRogue wrote:so now your saying that because i agree with his way of thinking i like causing pain to dogs just to get them to obey? like kicking a dog into the air to stop a certain behaviour?. How dare you Caryl i have never laid a finger on my dogs in a negative way and i never will, he does not beat dogs, he doesn't kick them into the air, all your watching is what people have made and edited.
CM knows how a dogs mind, body and behaviour work unlike all these backwards trainers these days. Do i agree with the collars he has used no i do not but i understand why he should of used them there and then, all you see on these videos is a dog shaking, yelping etc dogs do don't only do these things because they are scared or in pain just like a dog growling doesn't mean aggression its a way of communication. dogs yawn when they are tired and when they are thinking, they yelp when they play are in pain or a sudden shock, they shake from nerves, too much adrenaline or when they are over coming a drastic change like anxiety and their body needs to get rid of the chemicals.

No, Claire, I'm in no way saying that you use methods like that, just that he does. I know you don't mistreat your dogs - they are far too happy & healthy for that! I never ever said that, and I'm surprised that you took it that way, in fact I am quite offended. I, like you, love my dogs.

He does kick dogs - no matter how one views the videos, that much is beyond doubt. He does use e-collars & prong collars. He does reduce some dogs to quivering wrecks. I don't approve of these methods. In my mind if a dog is so aggressive that these methods are needed, then I'd rather the dog was pts. Cruel? Maybe, but kinder than pain/fear for the rest of their lives.

by Guest Sat Jul 23 2011, 16:19

Caryll wrote:Claire, I appreciate that you like Cesar's methods. All I'm saying is that I don't. I don't like causing pain to a dog just to get it to obey. I don't like kicking a dog into the air to stop a certain behaviour.

This is what you said Caryll or in planner terms because i agree with CM or if anyone else does for that matter then they must enjoy inflicting pain on their dogs.

by Guest Sat Jul 23 2011, 18:22

No, read it again. You have to admit that he does these things, but that doesn't mean that you do them, or that I think you do them. Don't read things into my posts that aren't there. I apologise if that's how you took it, but I really don't see how you did.

If I had thought that you ill treated your dogs, I would have said so long ago! Big Grin

by madeira264527 Sun Jul 31 2011, 00:53

For starters, Cesa Millan, Is a fake, Yes some of hes methods like been the pack leader etc are true, But MOST of hes methods, Like using shock collars are wrong, He was a illegal imigrat, That smuggled himself Into the usa, Now and started teaching himself how to train dogs, Know he thinks he knows It all, Hate the guy, Google and read about all about him been sued, For using shock collars etc, The guy Is a moron, And hes cashing In on hes new found fame, Even loads of dog behavourists have said hes methods are outdated and WRONG, ONLY thing he says which Is true Is that dogs are pack animals , And that they follow and respect the pack leader thats It, But like pinning dogs down, Shock collars, All hes using hes bullying the dog to listen to you, Which In the long run, Will only create fear, And the dog could end up bitting somebody, Guys a FAKE, Makes me so angry some people say the guys a good dog trainer, Hes a bully nothing else, That knows nothing about dogs.

by madeira264527 Sun Jul 31 2011, 00:58

I know not everyone on here Is a Cesar fan, But you would to see 21 century dog training, That Is reward motivated, And the RIGHT way of training dogs, Watch Victoria stillwells shows, Shes a professional unlike Cesar, Whos nothing more that a FAKE, And shouldnt of never been In the country In the first place!

by madeira264527 Sun Jul 31 2011, 01:13

As of a post somebody said on here , Theres no proof, There Is google It, There have been loads of people who have complained about there dogs and hes methods! , He charges crazy amounts of money to train dogs, Hint he ONLY work gor celebrities and the rich, Or anybody whos prepared to pay hes prices, And when hes helping these families on tv, Its not because he feels sorry for them or Is trying help people, Its to boost hes reputation and he gets paid from the tv station, And as for fees, I read on Internet he charges $20,000 a hour, Alot of money sounds like guys trying get rich quick, Victoria stillwell $5,000 a hour, Results of her are alot more effective, And you never hear or read about people trying sue her, Because she knows whats shes doing, And Is a professional dog trainer, Cesar trained himself with old fashioned outdated methods, And Its funny how many people, Like dog expert trainers have said hes methods are NO good, And these people arent Jealous of him, They make alot of money for what they do as well, And funny how many sueing hes had, Read all about It google It, Sooner the tv stations take hes programmes off the BETTER!

by Guest Sun Jul 31 2011, 09:10

This has been so interesting reading all these comments.. I am shocked though about Ceasar Millan..we thought he was the bees knees on his Dog Whisperer show, but then as you say, you never ever see the behind the scenes.
We also get Its Me Or The Dog as well on tv here and I have to admit I do like her..and my hubby Tony LOVES her!! Love Struck

( must be those boots she wears..and her mean figure!! Laughing

) Have to admit some of the dogs she goes to sort out makes you wonder about the owners.. she must shake her head at what some of them let their dogs do ..!!

by Guest Sun Jul 31 2011, 10:22

vanessa wrote:

This has been so interesting reading all these comments.. I am shocked though about Ceasar Millan..we thought he was the bees knees on his Dog Whisperer show, but then as you say, you never ever see the behind the scenes.
We also get Its Me Or The Dog as well on tv here and I have to admit I do like her..and my hubby Tony LOVES her!! ( must be those boots she wears..and her mean figure!! ) Have to admit some of the dogs she goes to sort out makes you wonder about the owners.. she must shake her head at what some of them let their dogs do ..!!

I feel the same way Vanessa! I thought he was the bees knees and now I feel a bit sad.
I actually never watched its me or the dog because the way it was publicised was just so corny... also my boy has a thing for tight pants... I'm not sure I want him watching it hahaha. I guess I'll give it a go next time its on

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