New to the staffy world

Hello everyone!
The name is Craig, I'm 28 and live in the north east of England.

I'm a new member to the group and looking to find a man's best friend.

Never owned a staffy before, and 2 weeks ago knew little about them....I've done allot of reading up and the more I know the more I love about them.

At the same time, the more I research the harder I'm finding it to pick one.....more to do with the health (as that is my main concern)
No good dog is a bad colour So that isn't an issue.

I've seen allot of pooches for sale, but I'm concerned about bad breeders, when asking the breeders for more information I always have their puppies and mothers health in mind, I always ask about health checks etc ......alot of them either dont respond or I have to ask like 5 times...which is worrying as if I was selling my puppies I would definitely have them all health checked and if clear I would be promoting those facts from day 1.

Obviously I've come across the l2 hga and hc problems staffys can have and also the dilute problems blues and fawn colours can come with.

I've come across a certain liter of pups ..All vary in colour, but owner says they will be vaccinated and warmed etc...but not health checked (so I won't know if they have L2hga or hc etc)

As the moment they are only a week or so old (what's the youngest ...or what's the ideal/recommended age pups should be viewed and handled by...randomers)

All the above said, what steps or checks could I do to narrow down a good pup.

I doubt the owner is going to health check the pups
I suppose I could organise the health check for my choosen pup? (Me paying) and if pup comes back all clear yes I would buy that pup 100%. However i couldn't garuntee that pup would still be available unless I put down a deposit (probably non refundable, which I wouldn't realy want to commit to if I have no garuntee if a healthy pup....catch 22 I know )

I could get one done on the mother, but she could come back either clear, carrier or affected, but without getting the farther done I still would be non the wiser as far as the offspring percentage is.

See picture for more information.

So forum members that's my current pooch situation
Any help any advice any input would be greatly appreciated.

Knowledge is power
Cheers craig

Hello and welcome.
Good choice of a canine friend but indeed, a minefield to find one.
Generally steer clear of free-ads and look for reputable breeder - easier said than done, I know.

The health check for L2hga and hc is done on breeding parents so pups will be clear by parentage. If either of the parents have not been tested, pup must be but tbh, I would walk away as you don’t breed without doing your homework beforehand. Both parents must be clear, of course. I believe that there are enough clear breeding stock to avoid breeding from carriers, regardless of how special someone thinks they are.

Out here, pups must be sold with recent vet check certificate so even if it isn’t compulsory for you, you can have it done. But then you need to include a comment on your sale contract stipulating some kind of action (return, refund vet costs, etc) if a problem is detected.

Make sure pup has KC papers or else there’s no proof it’s 100% staffy.
As to what age they can be manipulated, I think it depends on the breeder. A week old pup hasn’t opened it’s eyes yet so not sure how holding it will help you tbh.  I reserved Nifty at 3 weeks old but I was not allowed to touch her. See if breeder asks you to wash your hands before manipulating the pups though  

You then need to see mum and pups’ living conditions. Are they clean ? Do they look well, especially mum ?

Thanks for your reply
It's a shame people don't have a dogs health as their number 1 priority.

I will also ask if I can take the dog home Earlier than 8 weeks...as a trick question
A good breeder should want to keep a pup as long as possible and no earlier the 8 weeks.

Like you say you don't breed without doing your homework
So if he hasn't botherd to test before hand I doubt he would be willing to agree to returns etc.

I'll have a look and can always figure out my next step after seeing their living conditions etc.

I'll feel bad about not taking a puppy home
But I couldn't bare to have to put a dog down later down the road due to Ill health.
Especially after reading and seeing videos about dogs who have suffered with l2hga.

The problem is that you can’t save them all and to be honest, purchase is the easiest part. There are so many health issues that can be avoided, I think it’s better to do so in order to face any unexpected that might cross your road further on.

I believe it’s illegal to sell under 8 weeks old and/or unchipped so yes, good question.

You should be signing a sales contract during the pup’s reservation so it’s the best time to negotiate conditions. Normally any serious breeder cannot guarantee a show winner, however good the breeding is.

Also ask about puppy growing up. Can you go regularly to see pup or will they send you photos/videos ? What kind of puppy “education” do they do ? (Walking on different surfaces, hearing CD’s with different noises, introduction to vacuum cleaner, etc )

Ha! A vaccume cleaner is a must, wouldn't want my dog to chase a Hoover around all the time.

My dog would just be my right hand man/girl, I have no intentions of parading it around the stage, even tho it will be the best looking dog in the world
But yes I know what you mean you can't garuntee anything from looking at a little puppy.

No I won't be rushed into buying a dog as it is a life long commitment, and I wouldn't want it cut short due to bad breeders.

Erm you mentiond kc register and pedigree

If I'm honest I'm not realy that botherd....should I be?
I know pedigrees don't garuntee a healthy animal and that being a pedigree can bring it's own problems...aswell as a pedigree family tree can be wrong if a owner has submitted wrong information throughout the past.

Aslong as the dog is healthy I wouldn't realy be to concernd what a piece of paper says.
If I did get a bitch and I do decide to let her have a liter, I would just make sure the horny companion was fit and healthy before he had his way lol.

Well, the advantage of KC papers is having proof of breeding so you can check for health issues on lineage, inbreeding factors etc. That’s if you’re looking for a “pure bred” staffy.
Just another thought IF you intend to travel outside of the UK with your canine companion, foreign BSL can be a problem if you don’t have papers. Not impossible but just more hassle.

The thing about your “horny companion” comment is that often, the bitch’s owners don’t necessarily know the stud dog’s owners so it’s also a question of trust and not being conned ... paperwork gives a little extra confidence and small time liars won’t bother showing papers at all.

Hi from me & Katy Good to see someone actually doing their homework before buying a puppy There are so may dodgy breeders out there, especially to produce to fashionable blues!! I love blues so don't get me wrong, the older bred blues are much better as there was only one or two in a litter! My girl is not KC registered & her breeder couldn't care less! He was in Sheffield & gave her to his niece down here in the south east at 5wks old, she advertised her after a week After meeting Katy I knew I couldn't leave her in that place!
Does it have to be a pup, have you looked into giving a rescue a forever home?

Nifty yes I can see the advantage for have papers on that side of things.

Jen/Katy yes I always do my homework before commiting myself, you can only learn so much from the outside, so thought I would try on here and get some inside knowledge from people with experience

I would prefer a puppy for the fact I've never owned a pup from scratch (I've had dogs while growing up but my parents looked after them I just stroked them lol) so I would like the opportunity to raise and look after one from day 1, start from a clean slate and keep it on the straight and narrow as the saying goes.

Don't get me wrong every dog should have a loving home and know only love, I just don't fancy having a dog that has had a questionable past...especialy When it will be around my young niece. (I'm not saying it would lash out due to fear or nerves but life is life and things do happen, I know it can still happen with any dog.)

I know I have mentiond I've seen a certain liter, but I think I will still have a look in shelters and the likes of for a puppy.

I understand what you mean as Katy has issues from being taken from her litter too early! Fantastic with people but unsure of other dogs as she never got to learn doggy etiquette
Puppy's do come into shelters & even born there so keep an eye on them or ask them to let you know if any are coming up

Yeah I'll try all possibilitys
Aslong as they are healthy

Hi & welcome.

Well done for doing your homework!

As you're in the UK, your pup must not leave the litter until it at least 8 weeks & must be microchipped. Both of those are legal requirements.

Personally, I wouldn't take a pup that isn't clear for L2HGA & HC (I've personally seen a dog with L2HGA, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone!). If a breeder has gone to the trouble of ensuring those tests, the pups are likely to be KC registered. You CAN do tests yourself, but what would you do if the tests came back as 'affected'? Bear in mind that the kindest thing would be to pts.

Where have you looked for pups? Have you checked the Champdogs site?

P. S. If you ever did decide to breed, please make sure that both your own bitch & the stud dog are fully health tested & 'typical' of the breed. Also, I'd advise you to have at least 6 DEFINITE offers of good homes before the mating takes place.

Hello gillybrent
I've just looked online etc
I've messaged a few breeders on the kc website but I've had no reply

Erm well if the outcome was bad results, sadly I wouldn't want the dog and yes to save the said dog any further pain and discomfort later on in life it should be put to sleep, but that wouldn't be my call unfortunately, ofcourse I would inform the owner.

However if the owner didn't bother his arse in taking tests prior to the breeding, I'm taking a shot in the dark here .....but I'd gues he wouldn't give a toss about the results and still sell the poor pup.
Plus the others which no doubt carry the same gene.

Heartbreaking I know

Sometimes you have to be persistent with breeders. Many have waiting lists, unfortunately but don't let that put you off! They may have 6 people on their list but then have a litter of 8!

If you see a breeder you like the look of, phone them. Talking to someone sometimes gives a better overall view than emailing.

Don't be pressured into reaching a decision - after all, that pup will be with you for up to 16 years.

Yeah Well this particular breeder seems as if he has 2 sets of liters up for sale at the same time aswell which also seems concerning

Is there any way that you can find out how many breeding bitches he has ?
The breeder I bought Nifty from had 2 litters on the go at the same time but 4 litters in total in 2019, sometimes it’s just how the seasons fall.
Another (blue) breeder here has 31 bitches on their website alone and I’ve seen 7 litters to choose from at the same time   

Yeah I can always ask I suppose
Weather or not I get the truth is another thing.

I've asked to view them next week...but Personaly I think it's abit early if the puppies are only 2 weeks old max

See it as a first contact, you’re going to be more focussed on the general feeling of the breeder (people, pets and environment) than choosing a pup. They’re all cute at that age but their character won’t start to show for a few weeks yet.

If you have good feelings on site, ask all of your questions
Don’t forget, you have to find trustworthy breeders but decent breeders have as much trouble in finding decent homes for their pups. You just need to meet up in the middle

Yeah, well I'm pretty good at reading people, so I'm sure I'll be able to tell if they are full of $#!T.

First impressions count too so if I don't feel a good vibe from the owners or the environment for the dogs then it's a no go for me

Yes good breeders need good buyers
And good buyers need good breeders.

Puppy shopping is so hard

Hi Craigo.
I think you are on the right track and looking for a pup the right way.
You might be able to join a club and see pups available in their newsletter.

Health tests are expensive but do have long term value. The added costs and risk is something you will have to consider if buying an untested puppy and wanting to get the tests done yourself. Get some quotes if you haven't already done so. You might be shocked.

Pedigree papers will protect your dog from falling into being identified by authorities as a pitbull type dog. It also opens doors for you and your dog being able to join kennel club dog sports.

Another thing you could ask a breeder is if you can visit your puppy until it is ready to take home.
This has many huge advantages. Like you can give the pup an unwashed shirt to sleep on prior to pick up so it gets used to your smell. Make the transition easier.

Training can be done on visits.

I get a lot of training completed before my pups are 8 weeks old.
I will give you an example of training even before their eyes are open:

Put your hand in amongst them. You can wriggle through them, over them, and keep your hand still. That will get you accepted. Become one of them.

Pick up a pup and hold it belly up in your hand and very gently stroke it with your finger.

A dog can still fight while its on its back. The pup will be tense and wriggle until it gives up and goes into a state of submission.The pup will suddenly go very soft and relaxed. Only release the pup after submitting or else the pup has won the fight.

If you pick up a pup and it complains and resists, then you put in on your lap and it relaxes, then you pick it up and it complains and resists again while you put it back the score is 2 - 0. The puppy is the winner.

The pup needs to get to know you and give in to you. Then you can pick it up as normal.

You establish your pecking order.

Kiwi they seem like a good idea, the pups i might be viewing this weekend are only 3 weeks old, the other liter only about a week, I doubt the owner would let me pick them up...or atleast he shouldn't realy.

I'll ask him if I can organise the health test myself...If it's good news then happy days I'll take the dog

If not then I've spent money but saved myself some grief and heartache in the long run.

I'll ask if he would refund the deposit if the results are bad, otherwise I'd test a certain pup and risk it being sold on to someone else lol

Health testing really is money well spent in the long run.
I hope it works out all good. Its good to know.

Craigo -> what tests are you talking about ? A vet check to certify good health or tests for L2HGA & HC ? If the latter, I would really walk away because any reputable breeder should already have performed these tests on the breeding stock.

Yes l2hga and hc
What are the normal health tests?

Craigo wrote:Yes l2hga and hc
What are the normal health tests?  

As well as H2LGA and HC, breeders in the UK are asked to test for PHPV and PPSC...

http://thesbtc.org.uk/phpvppsc/

Craigo wrote:
What are the normal health tests?  

That would just be a regular vet check to ensure all looks ok.
When I went to fetch each of my girls and despite the obligation of a vet certificate during sale here, I took them to my own vet within 48 hours for double check. Glad to confirm all was ok

The tests that gilly are talking about are not only costly but are recommended to be done by reputable breeders before breeding. If it’s not been done, you know you’re dealing with bad breeder so walk away.

There are plenty of puppies available through planned breeding, save your screening money for your (indestructible) toy budget

It's a shame, but in the world of pedigree dogs a 'first impression' vet check isn't enough. Vets are great at spotting 'now' health problems, but cannot be expected to know hereditary problems in every breed. And let's face it, many hereditary health issues don't show until after you've bonded with your dog.

How does hereditary problems effect cross breeds then?
Would a staff / american bull dog still run the chance of having L2hga etc?
So should you still get a staff cross checked for the same usual problems.
Would a cross run the risk of bringing hereditary problems from both breeds?

I'm not sure about American Bulldogs. Sharing common ancestry and having same hereditary diseases is possible. I don't know. Some researching would be needed to find out.

Are the Staffy pups you are looking at KC registered?
If they are registered would they be on the pet only register or breeding register?

Pups im interested in are not kc registerd no
I have seen some staff cross breed pups aswell, so I was just wondering if they would have the l2hga problems aswell.

It's very difficult to say about inherited problems with crossbreed. You don't know what's gone into them, so you don't know what genetic problems they may pass on.

L2HGA is a recessive gene so for a pup to be affected both parents would have to have the faulty gene. However, there are many inherited problems in other breeds as well,and very few 'breeders' test for problems if they are going to be crossbred.

If you're looking at crossbred pups, find out what breeds have gone into the mix so that you'll have an idea what temperament etc to expect.

If you don't get pedigree paperwork with your dog then you might want to have a really good look at BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) for your area and anywhere else you may want to travel to in future.

Laws against Pitbull type. Not just breed.
Because even a DNA test on a pedigree Pitbull will just show up as a mix of breeds. There is no genetic marker for Pitbulls.

Sadly I see similar stories on the BSL section of this forum as here in New Zealand. Especially with Staffy crosses.

It only takes a member of the public to report to authorities that they have seen someone with a "Pitbull" for them to take action. Lengthy court cases is a reality.

If you are not going to get a KC registered pup then perhaps a pup from an adoption shelter might at least give a bit of paper that says Staffy or Staffy cross on it.

Just to add that if you’re ever headed to mainland Europe (anywhere the other side of the Channel for you), they’re getting pickier about staffy crosses vs pitbull types. Anyone wanting a “pure bred” staffy makes sure they have KC papers to prove it is just and only that.

Transiting by France, only pure bred SBT are not concerned by BSL (they are specifically stated as being not concerned), a KC papered Am Staff is category 2 so has lots of rules to adhere to (muzzled, always on lead by adult, etc.) and a part bred is considered as a pitbull and category 1 so completely forbidden on the territory.
In Belgium, rules are specified by town entities but in alot of Belgium, even SBT are forbidden or must be kept muzzled at best. They are considered as mastiff/bull breeds and are put in the category of “lock jaw” dogs.

I agree with kiwi, if you’re looking for a cross (perhaps you don’t want to fork out on a papered pup for whatever reason), maybe have a look at a rescue dog with adoption papers which are generally well accepted during controls

A former user on here had a bully breed and she had to get an official document from her vets (with translation) stating the dog did not meet pitbull measurements in order to go to France, to make sure she had no problems.

And another thought, never underestimate how ignorant people can be about dogs (a passer by, a neighbour, even a dodgy breeder, etc).
I have already been asked if Nifty is a bulldog and if Opium is a mini rottweiler

Nifty staffy wrote:
I have already been asked if Nifty is a bulldog  and if Opium is a mini rottweiler

I can sort of understand the rottie (colour/markings), but bulldog?

Just goes to show, as you say, you can't underestimate ignorance.

gillybrent wrote:

Nifty staffy wrote:
I have already been asked if Nifty is a bulldog  and if Opium is a mini rottweiler

I can sort of understand the rottie (colour/markings), but bulldog?

Just goes to show, as you say, you can't underestimate ignorance.

Nifty has a deformed tail from birth which is about 1/3 of the length it should be and she's very stocky so I suppose from a distance, in the dark, when it's foggy ...

Nifty staffy wrote:

gillybrent wrote:

Nifty staffy wrote:
I have already been asked if Nifty is a bulldog  and if Opium is a mini rottweiler

I can sort of understand the rottie (colour/markings), but bulldog?

Just goes to show, as you say, you can't underestimate ignorance.

Nifty has a deformed tail from birth which is about 1/3 of the length it should be and she's very stocky so I suppose from a distance, in the dark, when it's foggy ...

And when someone's got poor eyesight.

Or, maybe, has never seen either a Bulldog or a Staffordshire Bull Terrier!

Sometimes there are staffy pups in rescue centres no guarantee where they come from best of luck in your search craig. Been looking for a staffy pup myself on kennel club website so far no luck lost my mia in 2016 just look ask for eye checks herditory problems and most important parents if u aint happy dont do it

Hello peeps
I went to see the original pups that I mentiond earlier in the post.

Well...First impression did not impress
Back yard was chocka block with land mine's, some you could tell had sat there for a few days...nearly twisted my ankle as I tip toed around them.

Without any exaggeration, the house looked like a typical drug den, no carpets, no bathroom door...You get the picture.

Both sets of litters were upstairs in 2 seperate cages, I asked about parents and pretty much got a blunt answer ...both perents are down stairs having there dinner...I thought fair enough (I'll have a look after)

Looking at the two sets of liters, staffys were 1 week old, and the Pit bulls were 3 weeks.(at no time were they described or advertised as pits....)

I asked when would it be able to come home with us
Her answer ....erm When ever I think they are ready?

Going down stairs I heard the dogs
So I keeper my head around the corner where I got the feeling she didn't want us to see them

2 cages stacked up ontop of one an other, 2 dogs to a cage....barking their flipping head off at us(I can only assume in dog language they were saying please help us.)

Her reply was they shut up man don't f...king start.

At no point did I feel like those pups had a good start, i actualy feel like reporting her.

Hello Craigo.

Oh dear, what you describe certainly doesn’t strike like anything very positive, I’m afraid
Puppies in cages and not in welping boxes ?
Mums far from the pups, even when supposedly eating. More like trying to hide them and/or too aggressive to meet visitors.
Dodgy environment, un reassuring start to life indeed.
May I ask how much these puppies were advertised ?

This is a very good example of pretty much everything you don’t want.
I suppose your next visit can’t be any worse.

Have you found any other puppies worth a visit ?

Price was iirc staffys 500 pits 400 ..ish
They were in a large dog cage/crate.

The parents were in the same size....so 2 to a cage

Yes I have found another pup, owner says he was the runt of the litter, but he's seems to have caught up with the size now

Ah, new pup sounds interesting. A little older too so maybe a better idea of his character. Do you have a visit lined up soon ?

Seen it straight after the drug den dog
My lass picked it up and just give me the ...."aww look" look
The mother was straight out for cuddles and strokes, and lay on Its back straight away for a good old belly rub.

So the mother is trusting towards humans, shows it has had a good up bringing.

I asked how many litters has she had, this is her first litter and it was unexpected (her auntys dog which is a staffy also must of took it around the back and done the fan dango while no-one was any of the wiser lol)

The bitch is 6 years old, is that too old for having a littler?....all dogs look realy well, jumping around fighting with each other etc.

1 in particular was pulling his brother along the floor by his tail lol, I split them up and they both turned on me the little buggers

2 of them were getting abit too carried away but then the mother growled at them to let them know that's enough

Anyways I got a good vibe from the breeder and the bitch/pups so I put a deposit down
I should be picking him up next week sometime.

The owner is heavily pregnant bless her...like she's ready to drop any second , so unfortunately she can't get to the vets and get the puppies vaccinated.

They will be chipped tho.

What weeks do I get him vaccinated?
First 6-8 weeks ...so pretty much straight away
Second 2-4 weeks after the first vaccine?

Wow, congratulations ! How lovely to see a litter in a real loving family environment
Colour ? Name ?
Don’t forget that legally, the pup should not leave the breeder before it is at least 8 weeks old.

I would honestly recommend that you book a visit with your own vet as soon as possible, once you fetch your pup.
Your vet will be able to check pup is healthy and has been correctly chipped, then they will advise you on the vaccination and worming program.

Colour is a mixture black brindle and white
Name, I need to come up with one by Friday, as the owner is getting them chipped then, and if I give her our name she will do it in our name ...save us paying more go change at a later date.

I'm struggling with a name tho, i was thinking Floki (Viking name)

Yeah I know, and I would be pushing for her to keep it longer, but due to her circumstances I understand her motives.
All dogs are on scramble eggs etc now So are weened off the mother.

We will be going to pets at home through the week to buy some bits and pieces (already got a crate and wee matts) and I will enquire about the I vaccinations then.


Not the best picture but it's what was on the advert (waiting on more pictures)

What a sweetie
White toes = white nails, easier for maintenance  
Good luck on finding a name, though Floki is nice and original.
Consider buying a cuddly toy or blanket that you can rub over mum and litter mates before you pick up puppy, the familiar smells will reassure him.
Here’s my baby Nifty with hers



Curious as to why the breeder is taking to vets for chipping but not vaccinations, maybe it’s more of a financial question for her ?

I’ve not heard of weaning puppies on scrambled eggs ... try to find out exactly what she’s feeding so you can continue to avoid upset tummy and then transition to your feed choice over the next few weeks, if necessary.

Someone is going to her house to chip the dogs, she said she's just finding it hard to leave the house at the moment.

Yeah I agree with the cuddly toy/blanket idea

There is already a que of people waiting to meet the dog....I havnt even got him home yet lol

Don’t forget to take photos and videos every time you can, you’ll love looking back on them as they grow up much too fast.
Hope you’ll keep us updated on how you get on

Yes I will keep yous all updated
Either on this post of maybe even make a new post for him ha!