Coat colour genetics?

Colour genetics!!!! This is a topic that interest me, I have read the links I could find on coat colour ways but I have a particular question is it.....(I was going to say possible but I have that answer so I guess I am wanting to know is it usual/odd/strange ?????? ) for a dog to display both a "normal" and dilute colour in their coat? Oswald has both red and fawn and what I would consider a black and blue in various shade in his tiger brindle coat?

I am perhaps needing more coffee, lol, new pup,4 kids, Christmas and shift working husband does make my mind work overtime sometimes but I really am interested in the genetics behind dilute and not dilute in the same coat!

For those that missed him this is my beautiful boy xx

Awww he is a cutie I'm not sure how common/rare it is to have a mix of both full colours and diluted but I know it looks amazing sorry not much help but i'm sure someone will be able to answer your questions

I have no idea but what's the difference between red and fawn? Red is darker I guess? Anyway, you'll know better than me since he's your puppy, but is it actually blue, or is it just that it looks that way because of the brindle effect? Loki's tiger brindle, I guess you'd call it, but on his chest the black is lighter and looks quite a lot like Oswald's (great name by the way ).

To show you what I mean:



You can see that the black's a bit lighter on his chest, so maybe the colours just appear/come out lighter because of the surrounding colours as opposed to it being actually blue.

...I'm making no sense, goodbye now

Thanks Kylie xx

Tara could be just the black is being blended in with a lighter base coat for sure, he just looks more smokey in areas and in the smokey areas he is less red more a blonde which I think is called fawn? I guess seeing his microchip papers after we collected him and the vet calling him blue tiger brindle made me wonder. Oh and his dad was blue brindle so it is in his genes.
naaaaw Loki looks so much like him even down to the chest >< he does look darker overall though.

Do they change as the grow?

Steffi has changed, she has got more brindle as she got bigger.. She had a lot more black in her when she was little..

Oswald wrote:Thanks Kylie xx

Tara could be just the black is being blended in with a lighter base coat for sure, he just looks more smokey in areas and in the smokey areas he is less red more a blonde which I think is called fawn? I guess seeing his microchip papers after we collected him and the vet calling him blue tiger brindle made me wonder. Oh and his dad was blue brindle so it is in his genes.
naaaaw Loki looks so much like him even down to the chest >< she does look darker overall though.

Do they change as the grow?

Yeah, they look very alike except for Loki's darker face. If you mean does their colour change, Loki's hasn't changed at all, but I think it's mainly the black/dark brindles that change as they get older. I've heard about blues having more brindle in them as they grow though, so I guess so

This is his daddy

His mum is an agouti red but my photo of her was crappy

Thanks ladies! it is all so interesting how different they are

Hi,
Breeding blue and red is normally not a good idea you risk to get a liver colour which is not in the standard. There is a very good bit of research on the web about the genetics of colour in amstaffs but it deals with the same colour as staffies, i will try and find the address and post it for you.
cheers
paul

Thanks Paul would love to have a read

Hi
I have found this by the same person but cannot find exactly the same piece of research, this one is based on pitbull colours and talks about amstaff.
http://www.adbadog.com/uploads/pdf%20forms/colorgenetics.pdf
Hope you find it interesting
paul

I think Oswald has various shades of blue in his background colour & various shades of fawn in the brindling! Don't forget that the brindling is just the background that's being allowed through the black (or blue) overlay.

I think.

I'm doing some research, I did cat colour genetics but not dog, will keep you posted

here is a good link http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/index.htm

Thanks great links! I just curled up with a cup of coffee, will have a read now

Thank you for that link Paul Chiara I love how your link was layer out! The section on red, brindles and how the white on paws and chest is expressed we're really interesting!
I have booked marked them both to refer back to.

On cat colour genetics my Sabre is a blue DSH from a tabby mother and unknown father, her coat is characteristic of the chateaux breed if you are familiar? But she is not from a chateaux line because they don't exist here. Her thick double coat, cracks like sheep wool when she sits and she was the most beautiful shade of pewter, her tips were lighter and she would shimmer in the moonlight, as a youngster. She is 8 now and has a brownish hue across her coat now. She had a littler that were all black, and standard coat type. she was then desexed but her offspring went on to have litters that were her exact colour and coat type. Sorry rambling now but I just find this all so interesting

great link. learned alot. thankyou

He is a lovely puppy Awww Dilute is seen more and more now in many dogs with so many being bred, a lot are carriers of the gene. Puppies do change as they grow I dont understand the mumbo jumbo of it all but its interesting maybe you can work it out over a coffee and let everyone know .

I think its amazing too, both mine had red husky grandparents, grey and white dad and blue staff mum and made an amazing face mask of brindle and white. Marley has diamond black stripes on his nose and head while laskas has egyption cleopatra eyes. Both have stripes down back but while marley is red and black laska is white and black with grey bits... Husky mask genes have made a loverly mix especialy with almond eyes

Nathan wrote:I think its amazing too, both mine had red husky grandparents, grey and white dad and blue staff mum and made an amazing face mask of brindle and white. Marley has diamond black stripes on his nose and head while laskas has egyption cleopatra eyes. Both have stripes down back but while marley is red and black laska is white and black with grey bits... Husky mask genes have made a loverly mix especialy with almond eyes

Yummy colours

janey wrote:

Nathan wrote:I think its amazing too, both mine had red husky grandparents, grey and white dad and blue staff mum and made an amazing face mask of brindle and white. Marley has diamond black stripes on his nose and head while laskas has egyption cleopatra eyes. Both have stripes down back but while marley is red and black laska is white and black with grey bits... Husky mask genes have made a loverly mix especialy with almond eyes

Yummy colours

Id love to know what moo has in her as she resembles the genetic make up of my two so much, especialy laska who is a lil more furry but a spit of moo. Posture, pose and colours...soo close and love youre lass x

Nathan wrote:I think its amazing too, both mine had red husky grandparents, grey and white dad and blue staff mum and made an amazing face mask of brindle and white. Marley has diamond black stripes on his nose and head while laskas has egyption cleopatra eyes. Both have stripes down back but while marley is red and black laska is white and black with grey bits... Husky mask genes have made a loverly mix especialy with almond eyes

And they're both absolutely gorgeous!

Here is a link to cat genetics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_coat_genetics. I find it fascinating too. Laska and Marley's genetics interesting, wonder what their pups would look like?

I've always found this site useful for colour genetics in staffords....

http://staffegenetik.se/eng_genetics_coatcolor.htm#brindle

what i dont understand is why these links talk about blue dogs having grey or blue noses (not black) My blue staff has a completely black nose like all normal staffs..

The nose colour of a blue dog is very dark grey not black, i agree that they look black but the genetics say its grey because the dilutation gene effects all pigments.

they say that yeah but its pitch black..

Jason wrote:what i dont understand is why these links talk about blue dogs having grey or blue noses (not black) My blue staff has a completely black nose like all normal staffs..

Jason wrote:they say that yeah but its pitch black..

Some people say that you can get a completely black nose with a blue dog, but I've yet to see one. If you put your dog against, say, a brindle dog you'll see the difference.

well ive just compared it to a jack russell and a yorkshire terrier and there isnt a difference in black but maybe it just looks black idk

Put a close up pic (one on good light, preferably) so we can see it?

I'm not saying it's impossible, all I'm saying is that geneticists say it's impossible!

lol.. here's one but at a kinda distance

To me, that looks a very dark grey.

Absolutely beautiful, though!

fair enough.. thankyou

Out of interest I took a close up of Obi's nose and yep it's dark grey and he's a blue. He didn't appreciate the phone being stuck in his face to get the picture thou

Overall with my 2 blues, both totally different pedigrees, my male has better pigment than my girl.
My male has jet black nails much darker nose (black IMO?)

My girl has dark grey nails n dark grey nose but gorgeous dark eyes.

Can't win them all ! I'd love to own a faultless staffy but a faultless staffy is only for show purposes.

Love my 2 to bits, faults n all lol xxx

Jackieb wrote:Overall with my 2 blues, both totally different pedigrees, my male has better pigment than my girl.
My male has jet black nails much darker nose (black IMO?)

My girl has dark grey nails n dark grey nose but gorgeous dark eyes.

Can't win them all ! I'd love to own a faultless staffy but a faultless staffy is only for show purposes.

Love my 2 to bits, faults n all lol xxx

You have 2 great looking kids and are right to be proud

Can't be more proud of 2 dogs that fit the family perfectly n have to put up with 4 kids pulling them around lol x

Ok I think I worked it out, Oswald is not a blue tiger brindle as the vet stated, he just looks like he has some blue in him due to urajiro which is why his brindle is black at highest points it is impossible to have black and dilute in the same dog.

http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/albino.html

You can see a similar colouring on the bulldog half way down the page

My Curiosity is satisfied

Just come across your post with the same question! This is my new girl who is 16wks old

Do you mind me asking how your boy turned out? My dog looks identical. She is from a blue litter, siblings were mostly blue & white or red. Her mum blue brindle coat & dad has solid red & white coat.
It looks to me like she displays both dilute & normal genetics.


Thanks

It looks from that photo (a side view would be better) tha your pup is a merle?

Caryll2 wrote:It looks from that photo (a side view would be better) tha your pup is a merle?

Is that not the case?