Is Milo changing?

Milo is a high energy/anxious Staff when out and about. My OH always let him off his lead on the park. For the first time though he has, for no reason chargeed up to a German Shepherd and 'had a go'. No blood drawn but he was quite aggressive. The poor German Shepherd just looked as if to say what the f--k??   Apparently Milo's met this dog on the park before and always been fine with it as he is with all the dogs he meets.

Then walking Millo yesterday a black labrador ran past him after it's ball minding its own business) about 20 feet away and Milo lunged at him growling quite loud. The lady even apologised for throwing the ball near him bless her.

Is my lovely boy changing now that he has just had his 2nd birthday?

Should I let him have off lead group dog walks which he's done before - would that re-socialise him or would it be too dangerous for the other dogs. Oh I don't know what to do   .

Jenny i would practice his recall again and get him a long line and socialise him with calmer dogs again . Coukd be hes just been spooked by something has he had a check up at the vet ? Make sure there isnt a medical reason hes been grumpy bless him

Thanks Mia I keep him on a long lead all the time but I will try near calmer dogs too altho he seems to be doing the lunge thing with all of them at mo. What I am wondering is - could it be the wind? Not his but the weather? He's very skittish when there's a strong wind. It really winds him up.

He had his booster and health check yesterday as it happens and all's well. He did his usual nervy but then jumping up her and wagging his tail thing and I commented that he is quite excitable and boisterous. She said that's normal for a 2 year old dog and only worry when he isn't like that lol.

Could be the weather its really strange that they just know when they're at the vets . Im always glad mias been treated kindly at the vet .

Take him on those socialising walks Jenny, if you deny him then it could just make the situation worse. My experience with Flo is that the more relaxed we've been the more relaxed she is.

There's quite a few animals get really skittish when there's very strong winds, dogs and horses are the common ones. If he's acting totally normally at home then probably something has bothered him, so back to basics and keeping things calm, with lots of treats and/or praise for desirable behaviour. If he seems off at home as well, worth a vet trip just to make sure there's nothing underlying

I would go back to basics and definitely not stop socializing.

Thankyou everyone . It was windy again today and as we walked past an elderly lady at the bus stop on the green he tried to run at her too, not nastily but made a quick dash at her & startled her because it was so sudden. He was on his lead so he didn't reach her thank goodness. But then he turned his attention on me and started leaping up at me as if wanting me to catch him but then galloping off in mad circles at 90 mph lol. He's a right little bugga at times.

It could be the wind spooking him a bit, Maya is very skitish when there are heavy winds, but it is more of a nervous reaction, and she hasn`t gone for another dog, but then again she is only 6 months old.
Sorry, not much help but i certainly wouldn`t stop the socialization, and would opt for a short lead instead, hoping that he will get over it

Oh no the worst has happened and I'm in bits. Took Milo on his on a street walk & he was really good, staying by my side all the time. We took a short cut through this alley and as we came out a chap with an old small collie started to come through but decided to wait instead. As Milo & me walked out and past the collie Milo lunged and sunk his teeth in. He made the poor Collie yelp and he ended up with loads of white fluff in his mouth. The chap was fuming understandably and all I could do was say sorry and that he'd never done that before to which the bloke shouted "well he has now !!".

Now I am getting really worried. Yesterday he lunged towards that old lady at the bus stop and he crouches down when he sees children. I can't see him being let off his lead ever again and he'll have to have a muzzle or give him back to the rescue centre. Has anyone else had this problem and got through it?

Oh Jenny I feel for you, please do not think the worst like giving him back to the rescue venue. I'm sure this can be worked on. I can't really give any advice but I'm sure someone more experienced will be on soon. I Do you think he is becoming fearful of people and dogs and that's why he is acting this way? Could you try the watch me command when you see anyone and then give him loads of treats to make seeing other people or dogs a good thing? When we first had Misty honestly it was horrendous going for a walk, she barked at everything and anyone. Now she is so much better but it did take time, even now I don't let her meet dogs on street walks as she trys to jump straight into play and doesn't do calm at all! I do hope you can work it out x

Hi Jenny

I have re-trained Axl from being dog aggressive to now being able to walk past dogs without incident, no growling, no lunging and no barking. It wasn't easy and took a lot of patience and research but it is possible. I read everything I could get my hands on and taught myself how to handle him. He is a different dog now. What I would suggest is you read my post "learn from my mistakes" which is my honest write up of everything I did to contribute to his reactiveness.

In the meantime I would suggest muzzle training him and keeping him on lead until you have him under control again. I would also suggest getting him halti trained so he can't lunge at people and dogs. Both these training tools are invaluable and I can't put in words how much they helped me.

Also do not let your dog meet dogs on the street, until he is calm again keep your distance, turn around, cross the road or only walk on wide paths with enough space to pass comfortably. If he's feeling threatened or unsure and feels trapped his reactivity will get worse.

There's no quick fix but Axl and a lot of other dogs on this site are living proof it is possible to change things

P.s as Milo has actually attacked another dog I would also suggest having some one to one sessions with a good behaviourist just to get you on the right track. Make sure you do your research and find a good one though. Make sure they are force free.

Yes, do read Debs' post.

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t63757-learn-from-my-mistakes?highlight=learn+from+my+mistakes

The other thing I'd recommend is getting hold of Patricia McConnell's book Feisty Fido - you can get it on Amazon - and use the techniques she explains. They really do help. Hopefully, because this is relatively recent and not a habit of months or years, you may be able to turn him round fairly quickly but do brace yourself for a long process.

And getting a 1-to-1 trainer out is a great idea, but do make sure it's a positive method trainer.

As for returning him to the rescue centre, please don't think about that. He is still Milo, the dog you love, and there are ways of working and coping during retraining. Much, much better for him to do that with you that to go back to kennels where he will be upset and stressed, and where any training will take longer due to time constraints.

For the time being, no off lead except in the confines of the garden, muzzled when out (is he muzzle trained?), and as Debs says, avoid meeting other dogs as much as possible, and keep what meetings there are at a safe distance and a distance where you can start working with Milo to settle him down again. And ditto with people if he's started getting anxious there too.

We are here to support you, Jenny. I know you must feel like you're drowning at the moment but please use us as your support network.

Hey! What a stressful time you're going through, please try not to despair. Great posts already here regarding training/reading materials etc. A behaviourist would really be my next step if I were you - I don't think a trainer would be appropriate as Debs has said, since he has now bitten.

Do you know his background? How long have you had him? Can you recall an incident that may have been a trigger?

Bug is also a very high energy/nervous girl. Fortunately, she has never bitten another dog but she puts on a very impressive display if they approach her. She has also shown the same behaviours towards people, usually when they walk head on towards her. Although she is 85% better than when I rescued her, she still has the potential to react (and on occasion will) so I spend an awful lot of time crossing roads/doing u turns/hiding in random lanes! It's really hard for a dog that's trapped on a lead to be walked towards something that they are afraid of - they don't have the flight option, so they freeze or fight! When I was getting Bug's training underway I only walked her at unsociable times - early morning, late night and the occasional lunch time to prevent her getting overstimulated and allow us time to practise "watch me" etc. Rainy days were my favourite I also used a halti/muzzle combo (ensure you desensitise first) as Bug wasn't lead trained as well as being aggressive, though this isn't needed now.

Potentially, this behaviour, as with Debs' Axl, this behaviour could be a result of a hormonal switch (I assume he's neutered?), a change in routine, a scary experience as it's something that hasn't always been present? Or as with my Bug and Liz'a Bobbert it may be something more genetic perhaps and ingrained (maybe nervous parent(s) or poor care during his critical socialisation period as a puppy, in which case it may always be present - either way, it's absolutely manageable with the right help and support.

Thankyou all so much for those positive replies it's lovely having people around like you to ask for avice xxx

Rachel - yes he's neutered but I don't know his background before 7 mths when we adopted him other than he was with foster owners from birth and then adopted by a single mum who had kids and cats. Then she became 'fed up' with the cats and Milo and gave them back. He went back to his foster parents who are like us getting on a bit. I don't think they let him off lead at all. I can't recall anything to set him off as we walk him seperately. OH does the park thing in the morning and I know he moans if Milo takes off and plays with other dogs cos he can't get him back so puts him back on lead if he sees another dog. The incident with the german shepherd was when I was away staying with my daughter and he says he 'whalloped' him for that which I wasn't happy about. Also he has started running at motorbikes that go by and I know they started making him nervous as they're very loud. He's not muzzle / halti trained altho I think halti's would definitely help.

I know a lady who does the off lead group walks that Milo was happy with when he tried it the one time and I texted her about my problem. She has told me to ring her today as she has lots of ideas re this problem. She's a champions rescue dogs & is very experienced so I will see what she says. As we're both in our mid 60's I do feel sorry for Milo and that we did the wrong thing adopting him.

Niffer wrote:

As we're both in our mid 60's I do feel sorry for Milo and that we did the wrong thing adopting him.

I completely disagree Jenny, you have given Milo a loving family home. Since when is this the wrong thing to do. This is the honest truth, I met a lovely lady in her sixties very late fifties a while ago with a little black staffy while we we on a walk. Obviously we got talking and she was telling me all about her dog as she was from a rescue too. It's not about age  its if you can provide a good environment for your dog with training, exercise and love etc which I think from reading your posts you have that. Obviously I never agree with hitting a dog but you have said you don't agree with what your oh did so there is no point going on about that. I think it's great news that you are having a call with the lady today. It sounds like she is going to help you both work through this which is a very positive thing.
Please try not to get too down, honestly I've had so many people have a go at me when I'm out with Misty but she's my little Angel and I do feel bad I can't just let her of lead in a park but I know she would be off so for now until I'm convinced of her recall then she's on the long line. Good luck for today and please let us know how you get on x

Niffer wrote: As we're both in our mid 60's I do feel sorry for Milo and that we did the wrong thing adopting him.

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You did not do the wrong thing, not at all and please don't blame yourself. As Rachel says, it could be hormonal, it could be something in his experience/genetics. It sounds like he's a worrier (I think a lot of staffs are worriers at heart) and maybe that with a dollop of hormones could be causing this change in behaviour.

It sounds like this lady could be what you need. I have my fingers very crossed! I 100% believe that together you will find what will settle Milo, at least to the point that he can walk calmly on lead. I'm so glad that you have someone you know and trust already, she sounds perfect.

Just to clarify, I use the word 'trainer' to include behaviour trainers. For me a behaviourist is a very specific form of training. So I think we're all saying the same thing

I'm pleased you are thinking about the halti but I must stress that as Milo has actually bitten a dog I would, if I were you, muzzle train him. There are some good muzzle/halti combos I have one for Axl it's the trixie loop muzzle. Milo won't like it at first but if you do the training properly he will quickly accept it. Muzzle will give you piece of mind and the calmer you are the calmer Milo will be.

I don't think you've made a mistake adopting Milo I think you have done a good thing giving him a home, I know how it feels to watch your sweet boy turn into a dog you don't recognise when out walking but please don't give up you can change things around you just have to stay positive, stay calm and don't rush him into situations he may feel uncomfortable with. If for now he's happy walking on lead avoiding passing dogs too closely then that's what you need to do, once he's comfortable and non reactive with dogs in the distance pass a little closer but take your time.

I hope the trainer you called can help, let us know what happens, good luck!

Lots and lots of excellent advice here, you're definitely among friends!
Would also suggest initially you do take him to the vet for a full check over, just so you 100% know it's behavioural and not physiological. Then you can start tackling the issue.

Muzzle-wise, 100% yes he needs one. It may not be a permanent thing but for now, whilst he's somewhat unpredictable, it will prevent any further biting incidents. The good thing about muzzles is that people who don't understand will make a point of crossing the road to avoid you. Those who "get" it will be amenable to helping you with ongoing socialisation etc etc.

Not all dogs who wear muzzles do so because they bite, ever seen a Lab with a basket muzzle? I'd bet money on that being because the beloved doglet has an uncontrollable poo-eating habit

Best of luck, let us know how you get on.

Muzzle training video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BjPpXer8IE

I personally would go for the Baskerville Ultra muzzle, which tends to fit the broader staffy head well, and a harness. I really don't like haltis. I know they can work but they can stuff your dog's neck up summat awful. You also want to create positive associations with other dogs and I'm not sure that pulling on the head can do that very well.

And I agree with Kendra about the effect it has on others. A wide berth might be what you need at the moment, and a muzzle is one way of getting one!

So sorry to read that things are not getting better Jenny. Great advice from all of the above posts and please don't ever think that you did the wrong thing by taking Milo in. It shows in bucket loads how much you love him simply by the fact that you're asking for help.

I totally agree with the Muzzle but from a different view point perhaps. In my earlier post I mentioned about being relaxed, with a muzzle on you can totally relax, however much he wants to play, in the safe knowledge that he cannot bite anything. This WILL make a difference.

Not knowing the underlying reason for this sudden change I would still suggest not keeping him away from other Dogs, unless you know there is a particular trigger, otherwise I can't see him becoming comfortable around other Dogs as long as he is muzzled, However, I would certainly Bow to any advice that the behaviourist gives you over mine which is born purely from experience.

Please, whatever you do don't think that you are failing Milo, quiet the opposite, you are only doing your very best for him and remember even though you've had some nasty experiences he is still that lovable Milo underneath.

Thank you all so much, your replies do give me confidence to keep trying. Its wonderful being able to chat online and get advice etc.,

I rang the dog lady and she suggested a behaviourist and also to take him to a secure field and wear him out twice a week. I will walk him on a lead for the next few days to see but she reckons it because he's not able to burn off his abundant energy which is difficult if you daren't let your dog off lead. I play with him at home with the up/down stair thing and find it where I plant treats around the house etc - he loves that one.

Do you have any contacts for a behaviourist in your area? Though I don't think pent up energy would cause dog aggression, it certainly does exacerbate it, in my experience. When we lived in the city and Bug was walked on lead all of the time she was much faster to react. Luckily for me we now live in a semi rural area, so can let her free on her long line to have a good blast, and rarely bump into other dogs. A secure field sounds like a good idea if that's an option?

Hi Jenny

I haven't been on the forum for a while and just read your post. We had and still to some extent still have the same problems with Gordon. Firstly your not alone. You say Milo has been checked by the vet and his health is ok. I would seriously have a one on one session with a trainer/behaviourist, both you and your husband need to be there so you are both singing from the same hymn sheet.

If you haven't already pls read the link which Debs posted "learn from my mistakes" having a reactive dog I could really relate to this.

We have opted for clicker training, and found this has worked great for us, i'm not saying he is perfect we still have a long way to go but we can now walk on the same side of the road as people without him lunging at them, we have also been given advice on how to read his body language so we can tell now when he's not comfortable in certain situations and so try and avoid them. Also don't be afraid to tell people to put their dog on a lead if their dog approaches Milo.

I really do empathize with your situation because we were living off our nerves every time we took him for walks but there is light at the
end of the tunnel.

One other thing I have just thought of is what do you feed him?, as some food has loads of additives in.

Pls don't think you have done the wrong thing rescuing Milo, with the right help you can overcome this, you have already taken the first step x

Clicker training is brilliant, and doing the 'look at that' game with a clicker definitely helped settle Chaos with other dogs. It also gives you something fun and positive to do, which in itself can help.

Glad you're starting to feel a little better, Jenny.

Hi - Milo has a tin of Butchers Fresh Tripe Mix in Jelly once a day, having more meat added if he eats the whole tin. If we have any meat left over from out dinners he has a bit of that too added.  Other than that he has a couple of Bonios in the mornings and a few Winalot Shapes or assorted bicks from p@H. Dental stick after he's had his evening meal. Also a pigs ear once or twice a week.

I do have a clicker somewhere that I tried ages ago so I might take that up again.

I bought a 26 ft long retractable lead from Ebay which is fantastic. He can run ahead and it appears to be the limit of how far he'll run before stopping and looking around for us so thats great. He's such an excitable bunny tho - loves the leaves blowing around altho he starts jumping at me if I pick the leaves up so that's stopped lol

I don't think that'll be the sole cause of your problem but his diet won't help, Jenny. Butchers is right at the bottom of the heap quality wise and contains a load of rubbish. He's also getting quite a lot of grain with all the biscuits. Diet can affect behaviour, quite a lot sometimes. I'm not good on dried food as I feed raw (a great option for behaviour!), but have a trundle in the feeding section and you'll find loads of information. My rule of thumb is to feed the best quality your budget allows.

And yes, get going with that clicker! This is worth a look if you need some pointers: https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t63057-clickers

I can vouch for the food having an effect on behaviour - I have switched in the last two weeks to raw feeding Buddy and the difference in his behaviour has been so noticeable- more calm and less flighty I moved away from biscuits and treats that had colouring in sticking to tripe sticks and pigs ears- although last night my hubby gave him a chew that we had left over to go to bed with, god knows what was in this thing because this morning you can see the devilment in his eyes he has been so naughty zoomies, pulling on the lead . chasing the poor cat not sitting when told you can see how hyped up he is I am sure its related to the treat he had - lets hope it passes through him soon !

I agree with the food too but I only knew about food quality from this forum as I had never considered it before. Misty was fed Bakers by her last family and one of the reasons they didn't want her anymore was because she was hyper. We changed her straightaway to Harringtons dry then after a while she became bored of that so we had her on James Welbeloved and again she was fine but then started refusing to eat that. For the last six months or so she is on Natures Menu frozen nuggets plus the tins. We give her the country hunter ones that are grain and cereal free. She wolfs her dinner down now, she is no way a calm dog but she isn't the hyper dog she once was. I will admit though we still give her a denta stick after breakfast and a joint care as her bedtime treat. Glad to hear he seems happy on the long lead.