Near Incident

So tonight, I pulled up to the house in the car with my friend and had Nita with us, off lead.

We get out of the car and a women is stood 30 feet away with a Jack Russell. Nita runs across to say Hi and the women kicks off, Nita freezes and when we call her, comes back. The following exchange:-


Her - " Keep it away, keep it away"
Me - "She has come back to me, and she isn't aggressive"
Her - "Yeh my dog is aggressive"
Me - "Well mine isn't so all ok, also if you get in a flap it will make it worse"
Her "Yes but we know what type of dog yours is"
Me - "Erm, excuse me"
Her - "They have a reputation"
Me - "Yes, they do, and uncalled for, let me make it clear, you pointed out your dog is aggressive yet I told you mine isn't, so whose type of dog is the aggressive one?"
Her - " I don't want to get into an argument"
Me - "Well....you suggested that because my dog is a Staffordshire then she is aggressive"
Her - "I don't want any trouble"
Me - "Me either, however clearly, yet again, you have judged despite you making it clear your dog is the aggressive one, so think about that"
Her - Sorry, its just my dog is aggressive"
Me - " And again, think about what you just said"


Meanwhile while her dog was snapping and barking, Nita is playing with a women who just happens to have walked past, the womens reaction was how lovely and calm she was

Sorry to say, I'm usually the other woman! Drives me mad when people let their dogs run up to Bug without asking, it's really irresponsible. No need to be breedist, however.

Yeh I hear ya, Nita was a good 20 ft away when she came back so no where near close. She has had plenty of dogs come to her off lead while she is on, doesn't bother me one bit, to some it does but I guess thats just the owners worrying too much. She had a run in with a 1 year old male Patterdale who was off lead while Nita was on lead.
The Pattertdale snapped at her, I have no issue with that as Nita despite being on lead was able to deal with it. We sometimes forget that its our own insecurities that potentially prevent our pooches from sorting out squabbles.

GRRRR!! Ignorant!

I think your responses were spot on to be honest. Yes I agree that Nita jumping straight out could be seen as an issue but I do that every time I let Flo out of the car in her big park.

There is without doubt a stigma towards Staffies, however, I've seen a real mood change within the area that I live. There are far more responsible Staffy owners here now and not the chav type, hopefully this mood change will migrate and Staffies will be seen for what they are

Ah okay apologies, I didn't get that bit, I read that she ran straight up. I'm trying to understand the mentality of people that are afraid of our breed, and the best way that I can figure to go forward is to prove in our actions that our dogs are well behaved, polite, and sociable. If Bug is in the car she always has a lead on, and I hold that before I let her out - not because she's unsociable, but because generally if you're parking somewhere there are going to be other cars about.

I don't feel that I'm worrying too much, however, Bug has a quite severe reaction to other dogs - and it ruins our walks when rand dogs run at us. She's happy to see them/share space with them but when they approach she loses the plot (doesn't bite but does everything in her power to keep them away - we've socialised her for 4 years with little improvement, she's fine if she knows them but can't cope if she doesn't). Not all dogs/owners are lucky enough to have friendly dogs.

I'm with Rachel on this. I completely agree there's no need to be breedist, but having had a fear aggressive dog who had to be on lead, I know what it's like to have someone calling 'don't worry, he's fine' as their dog hurtles towards you, and you know what's going to happen if it doesn't stop. I completely appreciate that you called Nita and she came, but it's heart stopping when you see that other dog coming and have no idea of what will happen next.

Haizum74 wrote: to some it does but I guess thats just the owners worrying too much.

There are lots of reasons why dogs have problems with other dogs. It is indeed sometimes the case of owners worrying and passing that on to their dogs, but that's not the only reason. Bobbert was sold at 4 weeks, kept in a shed and physically absused till he was 11 months old, and was then in kennels for 3 years, not what you'd call great opportunities for socialisation! Rachels' Bug has stuff in her past that cause her to have negative reactions to dogs she perceives as a threat. I've met dogs with illnesses who become self protective and dogs who have themselves been attacked who have become worried. And then there are all sorts of other reasons why owners choose to have their dog on a lead and just the fact of being on-lead with another dog rushing towards you can be very worrying for some dogs.

This isn't to have a go at you, but just to explain why you do need to take another dog being on lead seriously.

agree with Liz totally - I used to have a 40 kg greyhound who was huge but was scared of all dogs - people used to let their dogs run up to him saying "he is ok don't worry "- I did worry because my grey wasn't ok he would buck and try and run away or at times attack because of fear - he was attacked by two staffies on separate occasions because they were off the lead and the owners both said "its alright he is ok " but when he reacted to them they responded aggressively and it all got very nasty with my poor grey being bitten on one occasion quite badly. People should always respect other people and understand if they have their dog on a lead it could be for a very good reason - a staffy running at you all be it in play can be a scary sight if you have a dog that has issues. I keep Buddy on a long line if in an area with other dogs just in case he is young and recall is not his best area better safe than sorry- so many people at training have said until meeting him they would never let their dogs play with a staff .. and have admitted they are scared of the breed themselves.. as owners we have to appreciate this and help change the way people think by handling our dogs correctly and respecting other dog owners and their dogs .

Hiya ains i know you have probably tried and tested nita in every way possible . It isnt really how nita is going to react its just peoples general perception of a staffy . Perhaps if you see a dog on lead in the park again slowly introduce the 2 dogs first. As i believe a dog takes to each dog differently. This would show you as a responsible owner and also clear you of any wrongdoing should any problems arise with the other dog.

The best thing to do is to keep your own dog from getting into any situation that will give them the excuse to put any blame on you or your dog. Some people with dogs that are not behaving the way they should look for just that and the reputation that some choose to believe about some breeds leads them to use any excuse t share blame. I had a woman with a large black Lab show off towards Stanley as soon as it saw him from 20 yards away and she said herself "And who gets the bad reputation, Staffies." She then mumbled to it about it creating one for itself. Another woman wanted to say hello to Stanley and introduce her own dog but she had it in a child's buggy and as soon as she got it out it showed off at Stan. She put it back in the buggy, covered over with a see through cover and walked off fast. Stanley's very patient considering the actions of others at times. Fortunately he has a reliable fan following and does a lot to promote Staffies the way they should be.
People show me photos of their own dogs and even take pictures of him. One pair came from Canada and their mother used to breed them and they sat down with him and he licked their face. They wanted her to see a Staffy from the home lands so to speak. That woman was wrong to talk to you like that but make sure anyone like that has no ammunition to use no matter how small. Nice job.

Some people eh !! Pm Saturday I took Milo to a 'Pack Leader' morning where there happened to be 12 dog and owners with all sorts of doggy problems. There was a very nervous aggressive German Shepherd, a border collie that would chase cars, bikes, children and joggers (and would bite them) and a tiny little terrier with a muzzle on that was spinning round and round when any dog came near etc. Milo was only there for my benefit to get ideas on recall from distractions & I must say he was the best there. I was proud of him altho saying that he did nip the trainer on the leg cos he had him on one of those rope slip leads? Just behind his ears, holding it tight straight up in the air to make him 'walk correctly' then he suddenly nudged him with his left knee in his ribs to make him turn left which Milo (and me) didn't like so he got nipped. The bloke didn't mind but it made me jump. Poor Milo - he sat next to me the whole time and whimpered as if to say why are we here mum? We didn't stay the whole morning and on the way home I gave him a real good run in the fields. Staffys are lovely x

Wow, sorry to but in but that sounds like am awful trainer. One who believes in the pack theory and who uses force which (in my opinion) never ends well. Honestly if my trainer ever did that to Misty they would regret it. I just don't think you need to force a dog to turn left, you can do things just as well with lures like food or toys. Poor Milo sounds really shaken up, are there any other trainers you could go to that train positively x

"Pack leader" morning sounds awful to me too

it infuriates me how ignorant dog owners know nothing about our breed, preferring instead to swallow the hysteria perpetrated by the media, whilst conveniently forgetting a) a dog is basically a blank slate at birth, and b) the short comings of their own breed.
Some dogs are simply anti social and that's fine, others get very excited and want to say hello to every dog and person they see.
Back in the day when i had 2 Staffs, Bess (Mum) and Jack (her son) they had very different personalities. They were brought up in the same way, both socialised etc etc..Bess was indifferent towards other dogs by the time she was an adult, and Jack HATED other dogs even from puppy hood...the only dog he ever tolerated was his mum..Jack particularly hated German Shepherds...This was due (we think) to an incident when he was very young, about 13 weeks old, and was bitten by an adult dog...
back in the Victorian days they would have described him as 'game'....In the house though he was a blob, and he adored people, loving being in the thick of it when we had get togethers...
As such, when he was off lead we would always keep our eyes open for other dogs on the vicinity and get him on whilst Bess just ignored any other dog, maybe having the occasional sniff....

Yep I agree - every single breed of dog has goodies and baddies .

I love your attitude! Its exactly how i would have handled it too.

Took Milo on park again this mornig off lead (getting braver). He was really good and didn't go far from us. Came to a corner and off he went - there was a collie cross right in the distance and he was running around with it fine - chase me and then I chase you game - by the time we got over to the owner the collie had had enough and was snapping at Milo (not nasty just telling him) but Milo wasn't having any of it and continued to teased him. We put Milo back on his lead and the owner was fine but said that he'd had English Bulldogs prior to having the collie and then we got the lecture. "Oh off course these bull types are all the same - they have fighting genes and you'll always have the bullish aggressive chasing instinct in them" blah blah. We told him him that all dogs are different and that Milo is only 2, boisterous & playful . but he wouldn't have it. Oh well ...........onwards and upwards.Maybe we should've put him on his lead before we got to the corner but ....

Im afraid i'm in his club. I DO think genetically they have it in them, much like collies are bred to herd you just can't stop some of them even if they have never seen a sheep in their life. But there is a VAST difference in teasing and playing than looking for a fight, so your boy in this case was just being a playful pup. Collies are evil pigs anyway lol

Im sorry to be the devils advocate, 90% of the time my guys will be fine. but they are two, they will pack up. I keep them on lead for a reason for the 10% of the time they will take play into a hunting pack and work together in a devastating show of power. dogs running up to them isnt a good idea and its worse when the owners have no recal

Can anyone advise me on recall from other dogs please? When he's on his own he's really good and comes back straight away.

We try really tasty rewards, toys, running away from him, whistles, sitting down on the grass etc etc.,

Misty is exactly the same, a perfect dog when it's only us but when other dogs are there she goes deaf to us! She's always on a long line now so I have control and she can't go up to other dogs but if dogs come up to her I let the line go slack. Sure recall will come with time, he's still a young excitable pup, I'm sure when they get older they will listen more x

Mia05 wrote:Hiya ains i know you have probably tried and tested nita in every way possible . It isnt really how nita is going to react  its  just peoples general perception of a staffy . Perhaps if you see a dog on lead in the park again slowly introduce the 2 dogs first. As i believe a dog takes to each dog differently. This would show you as a responsible owner and also clear you of any wrongdoing should any problems arise with the other dog.

When in the park, Nita is off lead unless I see someone approaching with a dog (either on or off) and then I call her and put her on lead until they pass and are suitably out of the way. I have found though that two dogs meeting on lead seem more nervous then off.

In the incident I originally posted, we had just pulled up outside my house and had got out of the car, Nita was a good 20 feet away when I called her back and at that point she was walking towards the women and the dog, she never charges towards other dogs unless its one she knows and she is off to play.
For me, I don't find it rude at all if someone has a dog off lead that comes up to Nita and me. Sometimes I take her up to this wooded place that a lot of dog walkers go to. As I don't know the area too well, Nita is on a long lead at all times. However 99% of the dogs we pass aren't.
At the end of the day, each person is different to how they train/walk their pooches. What works for one person may not work for the other and vice versa.

It's correct, we are all different and our Staffies are too so one solution doesn't fit all for sure. I'm the same with Flo in that 99% of the time she is off lead and there are no problems but once in a while an incident will happen. This is where I'm lucky in that Flo is never far from me and I can react to calm/stop the situation.

There's a certain truth with Flo being more reactive on a short lead and I believe this is down to feeling restricted and unable to escape any situation.

Having said the above I also try to manage interactions with dogs she doesn't know by slow leaded introductions and if I ever see another dog on lead approaching I will put her on lead not for Flo's sake but for the other dogs benefit as I just don't know why it's on a lead, which could be many reasons.

I think common sense is the real key, spats between dogs are always going to happen whatever the breed so it's about being aware of surroundings and acting accordingly for the benefit of all parties

When Milo is on his lead he will lie down when he sees another dog approaching and we usually pull him to keep walking. Would it be better do you think to let him lie there and just watch the other dog for a while?

Lying down is one of three things, so it depends what he is doing when he does?

If he lies down and locks on to the other dog, its a predatory stance and he is very likely to attack/bound to them (it could be playful bounding not always aggressive)

If he lies down and looks away or looking back to you licking his lips he is genuinely terrified, which will then make him attack to defend himself.

If he lies down but looking to the dog and putting his head down maybe even crawling a a bit, its totally submissive and he is willing to let that dog come to him.

Its mostly number one I think. He will lie there then run up to the other dog and sniff noses then he will sort of 'bump' the other dog to initiate a chase.

That sounds more playful, but he just dones't understand that being too OTT can be off putting. If it was aggression he would just go for the kill so to speak lol

lexii wrote:That sounds more playful, but he just dones't understand that being too OTT can be off putting. If it was aggression he would just go for the kill so to speak lol

He is very playful and exhuberant - but he seems to be learning (at last) that if he runs up to a dog and it growls at him he's starting to back off and return to OH....fingers crossed

Niffer wrote:Some people eh !! Pm Saturday I took Milo to a 'Pack Leader' morning where there happened to be 12 dog and owners with all sorts of doggy problems. There was a very nervous aggressive German Shepherd, a border collie that would chase cars, bikes, children and joggers (and would bite them) and a tiny little terrier with a muzzle on that was spinning round and round when any dog came near etc. Milo was only there for my benefit to get ideas on recall from distractions & I must say he was the best there. I was proud of him altho saying that he did nip the trainer on the leg cos he had him on one of those rope slip leads? Just behind his ears, holding it tight straight up in the air to make him 'walk correctly' then he suddenly nudged him with his left knee in his ribs to make him turn left which Milo (and me) didn't like so he got nipped. The bloke didn't mind but it made me jump. Poor Milo - he sat next to me the whole time and whimpered as if to say why are we here mum? We didn't stay the whole morning and on the way home I gave him a real good run in the fields. Staffys are lovely x

If anyone done that to mia id kick them in the teeth hope u gave said trainer a telling off .

Mia05 wrote:

Niffer wrote:Some people eh !! Pm Saturday I took Milo to a 'Pack Leader' morning where there happened to be 12 dog and owners with all sorts of doggy problems. There was a very nervous aggressive German Shepherd, a border collie that would chase cars, bikes, children and joggers (and would bite them) and a tiny little terrier with a muzzle on that was spinning round and round when any dog came near etc. Milo was only there for my benefit to get ideas on recall from distractions & I must say he was the best there. I was proud of him altho saying that he did nip the trainer on the leg cos he had him on one of those rope slip leads? Just behind his ears, holding it tight straight up in the air to make him 'walk correctly' then he suddenly nudged him with his left knee in his ribs to make him turn left which Milo (and me) didn't like so he got nipped. The bloke didn't mind but it made me jump. Poor Milo - he sat next to me the whole time and whimpered as if to say why are we here mum? We didn't stay the whole morning and on the way home I gave him a real good run in the fields. Staffys are lovely x

If anyone done that to mia id kick them in the teeth hope u gave said trainer a telling off .

Thanks Mia, Yeah I told him that Milo had never done that before and that it probably because he'd nudged him in his ribs which he wouldn't like as he's a sensitive staffy - bloke just said, "I get bitten all the time - its okay, you have to teach em somehow". Doesn't that say it all !!

Wow!! that is definitely not a force free trainer. Can't believe that! Poor little Milo.

Milo sounds exactly like my Misty. When we are in the park she tries to run to to every dog but she can't reach then as she's on a long line. She then either lays or sits waiting for them to come up. If they do then she nudges with her nose and puts her back to them to try to make them chase her. When they do she absolutely loves it! However she completely ignore me while she sits or lays and she only cares about the other dog. She sometimes crawls up to them which some people don't let their dog come up as it looks like she is stalking them. The other day in the park I was talking twice to separate owners and neither of their dogs wanted to chase misty so she jumped over the dogs. The owners couldn't believe it especially as one was a large collie! Oh these dogs of ours are so funny!

Hi Emma yep they sound exactly the same lol x