Obedience classes a no go-a bit upset

Well I went to meet the lady who does obedience classes today and took casper with me. Neither dog will be going there after I've come from there close to tears. She has pretty much said he needs a behaviourist not an obedience trainer and I'm going to need all the luck in the world with him! I took my kids along and she said the whole time I was there he didn't once take his eyes off them and sees them as no more than toys and has no respect for them. I've been working on getting him to not jump at people, and with me he knows he has to sit, it's not quite as easy with the kids as they do what I guess most kids would and react when he jumps. She says he can't stay focused enough to be trained, which to an extent I will admit is an issue I have with him sometimes as he is so easily distracted. But having said that he stayed focused on the kids the whole time so can obviously focus on something and he will do as I ask if there's a treat involved so isn't totally untrainable. So I won't even consider taking Miley there. I know casper is no angel and is high energy, but he's not a total lost cause surely?

Hey! Could you link me to the trainers website? Might be able to get an idea if their opinion is valid or not. Could also recommend you somebody else if you can tell me which area you're in.

She doesn't have a website, I aked around locally and got given her name. To be honest I get the impression she works with young puppies who offer a clean slate and no difficult behaviours to undo. She also has a dog walking service but has said she will no longer take strong dogs after ending up badly bruised when a lab pulled her through a gate. When I got him there she had her two collies running free which got him all excited before even getting into the hall she uses for her classes.

It does sound like she doesn't have much of a clue, and obviously isn't up for a challenge. Would you like me to find a trainer for you?

She did give me a number for another person who she thinks could possibly help. But to be honest after today I'm not sure I want to take him anywhere else incase they write him off too. He honestly does not have a bad bone in his body, he is just easily excited and just as easily distracted. By the time I left there he had calmed and made no attempt to jump at her, which by the way she told me to allow him to do and not pull him back (he was still on his lead) so she could put her knee out to push him down until he got the message. He does jump at people to greet them but I always tell them to ignore him until he is sat, then approach and say hi. So maybe I've just been doing everything wrong with him?

Don't give up after one persons lousy experience! Maybe just wait a wee while for your own soul to refresh & try somewhere else. Hang in there & well done on being a responsible owner! Chin up x

oh dear rachel will help if she can hen

Any obedience trainer worth their salt would not have dogs running round loose in their class winding up the other dogs. Obedience is for learning not socialising, I'm sure you could find someone better than that.

Sorry my mistake for not being clear, the dogs were loose in the yard not in the hall where she gives her classes. All 3 dogs went mad but I did walk him back to the gate where I got him to sit until she had put her two inside.
She did ask why I got Miley. I told her because a) I wanted to and b) because I work all day and felt it would be nice for Casper to have company. Her reply was dogs don't need company and are fine on their own. So I just told her well I've done it now and will do whatever I have to to make it work for my family, which includes both the dogs.i explained to her that he does obey basic commands when not distracted,but when he's fixated on something or is distracted by something I may as well not exist and it is this I want to work on, particularly when it comes to being in the garden as I would like to be able to take him out to the woods off lead one day, and I would like him to be in the garden at the same time as the kids but my youngest won't be taught that he can't run when the dog is out, and the dog won't be taught that kids are not for chasing and knocking to the ground. If I can get him to remember what 'leave it' and 'sit' mean at these times I'll be happy. He knows these commands when I have his complete attention so I do think the starting blocks are there, I just need the guidance to take it to the next step and enable me to regain his attention no matter what temptations are put his way.

To me, this person sounds like a dog walker who does a bit of training, rather than a proper trainer who has taken the time to study dogs, to understand the science behind learning and to equip herself with a wide range of tools to use in the wide range of situations you come across. Just the fact that she still uses the oh so old fashioned knee push to stop a dog jumping up speaks volumes. I personally wouldn't go to anything with her or to anyone recommended by her.

However, she is right in one thing, you would be better off with a behaviourist as most do regular training as well. Going to a behaviourist isn't something awful, it's simply going to someone who understands dog behaviour and who can address problems as well as teaching obedience. I wonder if someone who does clicker training might not be a good match for you and your family, as it can be great fun and you can teach dogs all sorts of tricks with it, which is something that kids can often relate to. It's also an incredibly powerful tool and one that can really help with getting and keeping attention.

ninz wrote:I would like him to be in the garden at the same time as the kids but my youngest won't be taught that he can't run when the dog is out, and the dog won't be taught that kids are not for chasing and knocking to the ground.

This isn't an unreasonable thing to want but it's hard when you have high energy dogs. The first step for me has to be replacing the negatives in this sentence with positives. If you say 'don't do that', you can end up making the person/animal want it more as that's where all the focus now is. Say you leave the house with the kids in it alone (not suggesting you do or would!) and tell them they can do anything at all except open the top drawer of that cupboard - got it, anything at all but NOT that - what will they most want to do?

You're much better off trying to teach the kids and dogs some games that they can do together. I'd try some low energy stuff to start off with, so not fetching squeaky balls for example, but instead seeing if they can teach Casper to put his foot on a piece of cardboard for a treat - that's the sort of thing you can do with clicker - and maybe look at some low key agility stuff, then work up to jumps. No jumping for Miley just yet though!

If that grabs you, I can give you some starting points. There's also a fab book called 'Control Unleashed' by Leslie McDevitt which is clicker based, and I've just seen she's got a puppy programme book as well.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Control-Unleashed-Leslie-McDevitt/dp/B000UCF53A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431761152&sr=8-1&keywords=control+unleashed

and

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Control-Unleashed-Program-Leslie-McDevitt/dp/B0077BTNFS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1431761229&sr=8-2&keywords=control+unleashed

Here's a quick video of some clicker basics, with Karen Pryor who is one of the foremost clicker experts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC367wKGi4M

As I say, if it grabs you say and we can give you more thoughts.

Anybody can say they're a trainer or a behaviourist and 99% of them don't know a dog's arse from its elbow. They'll watch a series of The Dog Whisperer, put an ad in the local paper and hey presto, they have the power. See if you can get recommendations from people who have had success with a genuine trainer or behaviourist and all the while keep at it yourself with the good advice you'll get here (like the post above).

I'm in a similar situation. I'd got to a stage where Bo was excellent at obeying commands even when excited but since his colitis became an issue I can't use treats any more, so the motivation is gone. Luckily I live in the countryside and nobody except an occasional tourist cares if dogs jump at them.

Thanks everyone. I am feeling a bit better today and am determined that I will prove this woman wrong, even if she will never know how wrong she is!
Clicker training is something I've tried, and it was great for getting him to do the basic commands such as sit and leave but has no effect whatsoever when he is excited. I do however like the sound of the kids teaching him things like you mentioned Liz. Up to now they've played the high energy games such as throwing a frisbee or ball for him so I can totally see how he sees them as playmates, and can also see how the things you've mentioned will hopefully teach him they can actually reward him if he works for them too, so it sounds like a good place to start. Hopefully if that works out he won't see them as living toys and might be a little calmer when out in the garden with them, but if not I will have to look at other ways to work on that. I'm not expecting overnight results with him, but I'd like to be able to have them in the garden together during the summer holidays, even if just for ten minutes before he gets too excited and starts jumping and chasing.

This lady doesn't sound like the kind of person I would want training my dog. I can't believe some of the things she has said to you and the knee barging to stop him from jumping :O

I really hope you find a great class to join! As long as your dogs aren't aggressive towards others, there is no reason why you can't be involved in any training class. Don't get disheartened by it I'm sure once you find the right one, they will both do so well!