What more can I do

Bane is coming up to a year old now and has really started to frustrate me.
We have been doing training with him since we first got him and at the start thought we had such a smart little puppy as he was such a quick learner but somewhere in time it's as if we've hit a brick wall.

He is only just learning to heel on the lead and that is only with my OH. For me he will only do it when there is absolutely nothing else to take his interest and I have treats and even then sometimes he has spat treats out and carried on to do what he wants.
We have been trying to teach recall ever since a few months old and he still doesn't get it. He completely ignores us when out, you can shout at him, whisper, talk in a low tone, squeal at him, jump around infront him, cover his eyes, wave food and toys in his face, we have tried a dog whistle and generally making a complete fool out of ourselves but once he has locked on to something he wants to look at, nothing gets his attention except dragging him away. By this point I am usually pretty pissed and just want to go home. It isn't nice to walk him because he just seems to want to be anywhere else but walking with me. I hate to say it but it really does feel like more of a chore at times than something fun for us to do together.

I know there are a lot of threads like this but I really am running out of ideas. I have tried teaching watch me while out but when raw chicken isn't enough to get his attention to even start the training I feel pretty hopeless.

I really wanted to join some dog obedience and training classes, but I'm kinda thinking it is just going to be "this is what you need to do, now go away and do it" and just end up with me doing what I am already doing with no effect. Are the classes worth a try? Am I just giving up too soon?

Sounds like you've tried really hard so I would find a good trainer who won't just tell you what to do but will work with you and your lovely Bane over a period of time. Being consistent is really important and I know this is difficult when you don't get a quick response but it is the key. Even a well-behaved pup can turn into a terrible teen-ager at his age so don't lose heart.

Sounds like the teenage phase to me. They all go through it and it's very frustrating. Go back to basics and if you can multiple training sessions every day with positive reinforcement.

I agree with J Hun, he's testing your limits and pushing you!! Back to basics.

Defo a teenage phase - makes you want to pull your hair out and you get sick of your own voice! Basic training and mind games are always a good thing to try - these actually tire them out more than walking - mental stimulation. I have never used classes so can't comment on that but do a lot of mental work with Moo - even if its the basics of waiting leaving and retrieval.

What lead do you use for walking? Also treat wise - I have never treat trained but cat biscuits work a treat (excuse the pun). Patience and persistence hun, you'll get there Xx

Yes, try going back to basics again, I'm sure it's just a phase

If you feel you want to try classes then do, we did a short course of six weeks and it was fab, they taught me a great training method that I was able to apply to most things   

Thanks everyone! I thought maybe because he's always been like this that he was just stubborn, rather than going through a phase, hence thinking he will never learn! I don't think we've advanced past the basic stage so not sure how much more basic I can go

We walk him on a harness and have a very short lead. The harness sits quite far back so we needed a shorter lead to keep him at our side when walking. I just don't really get why he will heel with the OH and not me. He does feel a little distant though lately which kinda gets me down evenmore so when he doesn't seem to acknowledge me on walks.

I will try doing more training sessions with him in the mornings and evenings and try to see if cat biscuits interest him at all.

Are there any particular techniques that would help with snapping him out of his stares or getting his attention back? Any tips? I just feel a bit helpless once he spots something. I will ask for his attention but he only gives it to me once he is done looking at what he wants to so he is not learning anything but how to get his own way.

you might want to try the Watch Me command for when you notice him staring. Do you have a small squeaky toy you could take out with you, this would get his attention back on you I'm sure. We always try to collect the squeaky devise out of any toys we can if they are still in tact and the toys may not be. These are a very useful tool to have in your pocket when out on walkies for getting your dogs attention.

We have taught him eye contact which is to look up at us so similar? We try to do it before crossing roads etc. or if we've stopped to get his attention, which is one of the times we struggle with because he would rather watch the kids across the road or the cyclist going by. In the house he does it perfectly.
I will try and dig out some squeakers and give that a go, thanks!

Practice the name game! If I remember it right.......

Get him sat in front of you with a hand full of high value treats and repeat his name, giving him one treat after another, then stop and when he looks you in the eye say yes and give him treats again, keep doing this but progress to just one treat when he looks at you and leave the gap between saying him name and giving the treat longer, he should continue looking at you   then you start holding out the treat to the side he will follow it but as soon as he looks at you say yes and give a treat, he should learn that he needs to be looking at you for the treat! Did that make any sense? If not let me know and I'll dig my training folder out and post the exact instructions! Xx

That makes sense thanks Saz! It sounds like a good method! Should we start inside? Or somewhere with distractions?
Thank you so much xx

Hope he is improving. It's frustrating but you will get through it   

I remember this phase, Axl became the biggest pain in my backside but I think if you follow the advice above it will get you through, consitency and patience are key.

As to training classes, taking Axl back to training classes was the best thing I ever did but I did my research and I found the perfect trainer for us. I think it's important you find a trainer that you have confidence in and are comfortable with, don't take him to a trainer if you feel they are just going to send you away with the attitude of "here's what you do, now go and do it" you need to have confidence in them that they can help. I don't know what your area is like but my way we can go and sit in on classes before we commit, maybe you could sit in on a couple of classes with different trainers and see which one you like? You'll know as soon as you find the right one.

I always post this but I'm going to say it again lol. Get one toy or in Axl's case it was a tennis ball. Don't give that toy/ball to Bane at any other time than on a walk, when he starts to stare squeak the toy or bounce the ball and his attention will snap back to you. The idea is as the toy is new and exciting his full attention will be on you. I did this with Axl and it worked like a dream. The key thing is Bane shouldn't have access to this toy at any other time, it must be his special walking toy/ball

Good advice from Debs

Thanks Debs!! Did you let Axl play with the tennis ball while out at all? Or was it just to get his attention?
There doesn't seem to be many classes close to me but I have emailed a couple to ask if for further details and if it is possible to sit in a class first Fingers Crossed we will find something even if we have to drive a little way!

Thanks JStaff! I am actually very impressed, he has been heeling a lot better this week! I still have to tell him quite often but he is getting it! It might be wishful thinking but I think his attention span has got a tiny little bit better? But still has mainly bad times...the other morning a lady was walking by with 3 dogs...ignored me the whole time for a good 3 or 4 minutes while I was waiting for him to look before crossing a road. -.-

I have been reading bits and pieces too, what would be best to do when he does ignore me? Say he spots something, I squeak a toy and say his name and he still doesn't look, obviously shouting and repeating myself is just teaching him to ignore me more so should I just walk on and try again a few seconds later?

Bane wrote:That makes sense thanks Saz! It sounds like a good method! Should we start inside? Or somewhere with distractions?
Thank you so much xx

Sorry Hun I missed your reply! Start inside then progress to different places, quiet corner of the park, then busy corner with distractions etc xx

In fact that's the same for anything you teach him, first at home then out and about. That's what we were taught in the training course x

Thanks Debs!! Did you let Axl play with the tennis ball while out at all? Or was it just to get his attention?
There doesn't seem to be many classes close to me but I have emailed a couple to ask if for further details and if it is possible to sit in a class first Fingers Crossed we will find something even if we have to drive a little way!

No worries I let him hold it for a little bit then took it away from him again, he'd usually drop it to sniff something and I'd use the opportunity lol.

I have been reading bits and pieces too, what would be best to do when he does ignore me? Say he spots something, I squeak a toy and say his name and he still doesn't look, obviously shouting and repeating myself is just teaching him to ignore me more so should I just walk on and try again a few seconds later?

Personally I'd turn around and walk in the opposite direction, that should get his attention

As hard as it is to do ignoring Ledger is one of the most effective ways of recall hiding behind a tree where i can still just see him has him pelting back paniced that i left him!

As others have said we have the chuck it balls for walks only and oddly with one in his mouth he listens more and if i bounce a second its an instant recall!!!!!

Training classes i think are definitely worth it even if its just to see that almost all other owners of all breeds are tearing their hair out at similar things. And through ours it was the eye contact before treats that we worked on alot we even use that when i put his dinner down

Hi there I have a 13 month old boy & I found that he was not interested in food rewards at all when we were out of the house. He has become obsessed with a frisbee and a ball now which he will fetch & bring back to me & this has made walks so easy. He's completely focused on the ball & doesn't go anywhere near another dog or run off. When he was tiny he couldn't help but run over to every person, dog, child! Now he's not bothered.
Sometimes I play games with him & hide behind a tree or bush when out walking him & call him to find me. My trainer said you have to make yourself the most interesting thing which was good advice.
When you are walking him with someone else do recall between you one holds him & the other runs away, stops & calls him then vice versa Bruno loves it.
Good luck

I would join the classes. Also do what Debs says with the toy, a squeaky one if he likes them. You could try a clicker there are some good books on clicker training http://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Pigs-Fly-Training-Impossible/dp/1929242441/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408037793&sr=8-1&keywords=pigs+might+fly+dog+training

Thanks again everyone for your help and suggestions!

I think a trip to PAH is in order for a squeaky tennis ball!
I cooked up a batch of liver cake yesterday and he did seem a bit more interested in them on the walk this morning so I will make sure I have them on hand for walks AT ALL TIMES! I can see that I will be doing a lot of baking! o.o

Jules: I have been told by so many people that hiding behind a tree works so well! Bane only really notices that I've gone after about 5 minutes of doing what he wants and even then as soon as he spots me he's like "oh your there I'll carry on then..." Little bugger!

Ellab: Oh I wish Bane was interested in balls and frisbees! We are yet to find something that he really goes nuts for especially when outside with people and dogs The running away recall works the first time and then he gets distracted by a smell and just runs off where he wants.

I have found a couple of good looking training classes! One I can sit in on next week if I like and another is getting back to me with new class dates!

"And through ours it was the eye contact before treats that we worked on alot we even use that when i put his dinner down" To quote Jules , I've been teaching eye contact with Toots. It works very well and teaches them to look at you 'checking in' for lots of things.
You can start this using treats and move onto things like door opening etc.
To start with sit beside and slightly behind him and hold the treat away from him. Don't say anything.
It will take a little while but he will eventually look round and when does this even if not directly at you say 'good!" then give the treat. With practice, he will learn to make eye contact.   
I also sit behind her, lead on and place the treat a little way in front of her. She very quickly learned to look round at me!   

He learn't eye contact at about 12 or 13 weeks old and will do it perfectly in the house, before dinner any time you ask him...it is just as soon as you get out of that door!
I have had an email back from one trainer...£99 for 12 hours? with a first 4 hour session...Is that about right? Said I can pop along on Friday to see what kind of things they do Only thing I am thinking is 4 hours is a long time and I'm not sure Bane will stick it out. I may try and find some shorter ones!

4 hours is a long time but the price sounds good, think I paid about 70 for 6 1 hour sessions x

Another one I have found is £45 for 8 hours...the prices are all over the place! Thanks Saz will keep that in mind

I find Pedro will always look up from what hes doing if I say 'what's this?' In a really excited voice! He always comes over to see what 'this' is

I think Bane has now realised that most of the time there is nothing there  He cottons on quick to our tricks!