Doesnt neutering seem a bit unethical?

I dont know if its just me but ive been holding back from neutering chaos because it seems really unethical.

Not only is it not natural, its not always necessary!

Im really not convinced, people lived with un-neutered dogs for centuries and they were fine!

Thoughts?  

Personal choice. Arguments for and against. For me far too many is rescues shelters will always have mine done.

Same, I rescue too   

We havn't had Gordon done yet and I know I will feel awful seeing him uncomfortable after the op, but I will feel worse if there were to be an accident and he got another dog pregnant and wonder where the hell these pups might end up   

I have the girls done though in retrospect I would have waited until they were older rather than at 6 months   

I would get it done just to prevent unwanted pups, just my personal feelings on the subject.

i personally think breeders should be licensed and neutering compulsory for anyone not a licensed breeder

many arguments for and against but i've never heard unethical before.
my reason for why it isnt,

yes man and dog have been partners for ney on 18k years but until quite recently say last 90 years they were mainly kept as working animals with a specific job to do.
Now we live in a differant world where people try to make a quick buck, the rescue centers are over flowing with dogs, vets bills are astronomical. in yester year a dog with a problem would have been dispatched quite quickley and nobody cared about any of the problems brought on by the neuter/none neuter debate or alot else for that matter, the dog either worked or was killed.
now dogs are more pets than workers and people care/love them which is one reason why the neuter debate can get so passionate.
my boy has been done and my girl hasnt yet, if he hadnt have been i would be the not so proud father of at least three litters by now.

Chiara wrote:I have the girls done though in retrospect I would have waited until they were older rather than at 6 months   

Why do you feel this way Claire? We intend to have Theia spayed and we're wondering when.
Pete

I think there's some debate as to weather they should have their first and maybe second season before spaying Pete. It's so that they get all the hormone releases that they need whilst growing in to adults I believe.

We've tried to research when is best Ian, and every single opinion is out there!
Our vet is willing to spay her before her 1st season but I've read not before her 3rd season. There is a study which has found the longer you leave it or non spaying drastically increases the risk of breast cancer.
We think we'll let her have her 1st season then discuss it further.
Pete

My first was done before her first season and my second after - both of which are built beautifully and have great temperaments - honestly personal choice x

Stella was spayed just before her 1st season on the advice of our vet

My vet said let lula have her first season then get her done. I`m getting her done but not sure when.
we never had Snoop done and i know he never fathered any puppies

shegsy wrote:Stella was spayed just before her 1st season on the advice of our vet

We were advised the same for Meg. Had her done just before her first birthday (after her first season). I wouldn't want to be in the position of trying to make sure pups went to a good home and not knowing for sure if they are going to be looked after properly, plus the fact that so many Staffies are in shelters and lots are being PTS every day.   

If a bitch is not going to be 'put to', there is a risk of Pyometra developing as the dog gets older and this can be fatal. Another reason I had Meg done

I also agree that breeders should be licensed and registered. Breeders registered with the KC can only breed their bitches a max of 4 times (used to be 6 until 2012) then, the KC will not accept any more registrations from the Dam, but this doesn't stop the breeder continuing to breed and not registering the pups. More could be done here IMO

I will always neuter, for the over population reason mostly, but personally would never do so until after at least 1, but preferably two seasons. And at 18 months in male dogs. There's lots of research into pros and cons that you will readily find online, I'm just very aware of how early spaying effects growth plates and hormonal development. We could always tell who were the early spays/neuters in kennels!

It's personal choice ultimately. My vet recommends waiting.

I keep hearing this personal choice thing but it isn't. Everyone should get all the facts & make a choice, but every choice has good & bad bits. It just isn't as simple as 'my dog was done & hasn't suffered for it'. How do you know? How do you know what theyd have been if they hadn't benn done?

research has proved that there are far more 'cons' to neutering than vets tell you.

So many arguements.
I think every dog is different tho and i waited with my bitch until now (15 month) and she had 2 seasons both of which were a disaster she was so depressed got all hot n bothered chewed her feet to bits sat in her crate all day and then had a phantom pregnancy which meant she had a second season as she was on meds etc and vet wanted to wait til she was fully back to herself.

gillybrent wrote:I keep hearing this personal choice thing but it isn't. Everyone should get all the facts & make a choice, but every choice has good & bad bits. It just isn't as simple as 'my dog was done & hasn't suffered for it'. How do you know? How do you know what theyd have been if they hadn't benn done?

research has proved that there are far more 'cons' to neutering than vets tell you.

My friends dog (Beau) hadn't been spayed and at 6 years old, started going off her food and being sick and her tummy swelled up. they took her to the vets and he told them he had to operate straight away. He had to perform an emergency womb removal (is it called hysterectomy in animals?) as he had diagnosed Pyometra. He told them they had come in just in the nick of time, hours later she would have died. She had to stay at the vets for a few days and have a course of antibiotics. My friends were beside themselves with worry at the thought they could have lost her. Beau is now 11 years old. I was conscious of this when making my decision along with the fact that the Staffy is the UK's most abandoned/unwanted dog.

Yes, Meg did suffer when she had the op, but doesn't almost any living thing suffer post-op? And yes, I did feel responsible for putting her through this. I slept downstairs with her for 3 nights so I could take care of her and I know in the long run it's the right decision. I have a happy, healthy Staffy who I think the world of.

If there's research, show us so that those of us who have yet to make the choice can make an 'informed' decision.

Totally agree lumpy: i also was scared by reports of dog thieves that want bitches to brees and u wouldnt know where pups are goin and what would happen to the adults. I get asked all the time when im breeding and im like well im not so now shes done i feel better and she hasnt suffered too badly other thn she now wont eat raw food? And she is mega hyper as not getting proper runs right now.
Theres always so many factors and risks with ops for anything and always advantages and disadvantages.

They are the breed that mostly end up in centres and i think the breed most people dont respect when it comes to their needs. Where i stay theres a woman i meet with her kids (teenage) and little dog and shes always saying about how they had a staffy and it bit the son and now he has a big scar.......they only walk the dog round the block twice a day and i know if i were to do that with mine shed be mega hyper n more likely to mouth. I think this is probably a common ocurence for people that dont appreciate the staffy need for a good run.

I know some vets are pushy when it comes to it but mine was very good when i said i wasnt sure getting her done before season 1.

Quite a debate :-D interesting tho what everyone thinks

i have always got my females done at some point because of all the blood it get everywhere but my male i haven't he would never try to get out without me

We were told by a dog behaviorist that we should neuter Debo, because he kept humping one of her female ( spayed ). She said that DEbo is so frustrated because of his sexuality, that we really consider that option. Really? That's not a reason.
http://www.champdogs.co.uk/blog/pros-and-cons-of-neutering
I've done some research and there are some cons on that as well. But it's 50/50 I think. Debo doesn't run away ( yet! ). We still didn't make ours mind on that subject.

Will not have Vin done as he never goes out without me and garden is very secure. Tbh he doesnt really take much notice of females in that respect just wants to play. I honestly dont think he knows what its for!    

Rupert was already neutered (I don't like that euphemism) but in a high density area like London, I think it makes sense.

There have been a couple of people on here whose dogs have had accidental litters. I would hate that to happen to a dog of mine because, like some of the people above, I would worry about the fate of the puppies, and for every adoption, another dog in rescue wouldn't find a home.

My friend lived in Ghana as a child and their dalmation was never neutered, with the result that suddenly half of the feral puppy population had spots. I don't think that is unethical.

Depends on where you live and to what extent you can absolutely guarantee no accidental pregnancies, throughout your dog's life.

What do you think, having read all these comments?

Rupertsbooks wrote:
What do you think, having read all these comments?

??

Just a query.. take out the 'having an accident' or 'accidentally getting pregnant' arguments out of it.

Would you still neuter?

Zeus is 2 and a half now and like Chaos_The_Rescue, I just cant bring myself to get him neutered, it just doesn't seem natural. I think if this is the way God intended them to be, then who are we to change that?

Not sure if it's unethical but I definitely don't think it's natural. With the exception of one of our male Dogo's who had a vasectomy all our past dogs male and female haven't been neutered/spayed and we've never had a pregnancy or unwanted/unexpected coupling when we had both male and female living in the house at the same time. All our homes have been dog and escape proofed intentionally so that when our dogs have been separated due to the female being in season, there was no way any dog of any size was going to get in or out. Having such large powerful dogs for over 20 years, a safe and secure property and dog proof areas have always been a priority for us and this has also served very well in preventing unwanted pregnancies.

We have no intentions of breeding but just want our dogs to avoid a surgical procedure if we can. Unless they had a major condition/issues that 100% required neutering, we would definitely do it but other than that reason we wouldn't. I think if a dog owner is in the position to 100% prevent unwanted pregnancies by ensuring they have measures like we have in place, I don't see any reason why they have to neuter/spay

Any owners that can't guarantee that their dogs won't get pregnant or cause a pregnancy should definitely neuter/spay though.

My bitch was a nightmare for backing up on boys, even when the boys were like eh im playing with a toy! Shes also got allergies so wouldnt want to have pups the same as some folk would see tht as an escuse to rehome as they cant be bothered.

I also waited til now as i heard tht speying before first season there was evidence of them becoming incontinent later in life.

Im happy with my decisio to have her done at 15 months as i saw her have 2 seasons which werent very nice for her.

I didn't neuter my last male staff Reggie and there were never any problems.
It's largely down to responsible ownership.
I will spay Toots at around 2 years. I know the dangers of pyometra later in life.
I spayed my last girly after her first season and she suffered bladder problems all her life.   

yea it's all down to the owners, sam would never jump over for a female, their 2/3 female behind us and hes never try to get out while they was on season, well he couldn't anyway becasue its very secure

We had our previous dog neutered and he was still grumpy with other dogs and also right up till he died aged 13 he still tried to hump people. We have`nt had Buster done he`s nearly 2 now and were not getting him done. He only goes out with us and our garden is secure so no chance of an accident happening. Not too convinced that neutering would diminish the number of unwanted dogs in kennels as most of the dogs in shelters have`nt come in due to accidental pregnancies more often from a certain type of person that gets a dog then does`nt want it so just gets shot of it anyway they can. These same type of people are not going to consider any of the pro and cons of neutering as they generally would`nt bother and prob don`t give a second thought to the welfare of their dogs or their progeny.

I never felt the need to get snoop done and if i`m honest it was why i wanted another boy. My daughter picked Lula and its the first time we have had a girl so its all new to us. The garden is secure and Lula is not let of the lead but i`m still getting her done. It really just a question of when to get her done she not had her first season yet. I think i`ll see how she goes with her first season and then decide. My main reason for getting her done in the future is unwanted puppies.
I suppose money could put some of getting there dog or bitch done

Well I dont have any reason to neuter him as of now, he hasnt tried to impregnate any females yet and he plays with a female pitbull mix on a regular basis - although she is just over a year old and much more dominant than he is!

I guess ill just wait until hes fully grown than MAYBE get it done if need be. I know i wouldnt want my testicles removed    

Did you read the post a few previous to this titled help is this normal?

Lynn&Pete wrote:Did you read the post a few previous to this titled help is this normal?

Not sure what to say without being rather blunt! I wont say anymore than that   

You can be as blunt as you like with me Inez, I'll never take offence  
But I'll never change my position on neutering. I believe every animal that is not in the hands of a registered and licensed breeder should be neutered.
There's plenty of medical and behavioural reasons to neuter but also, and I know it's a small chance, an intact dog is more likely to be attacked. And I think most of us has had a moment or two where if our dogs weren't as good as they are things could have been much worse.
Pete

remember there some really bad regsitered breeders who in it for just the money...

my sam is nearly 10 ear old now he never try to get out once, we have a a lot female dogs around here. i'm not saying i'm anti neutering but if you got your dog under control it be free without getting them done

That's the reason I think they should be licensed too Steve.
I had a woman in my taxi who'd rescued a bulldog and told me that her son paid £1100 for a pup but her dog just wanted to hump it. She said it's ok though because they gave it away but they still get the stud fees! And this is from a woman who rescued a dog, who you'd think would know better.
Pete

Lynn&Pete wrote:You can be as blunt as you like with me Inez, I'll never take offence  
But I'll never change my position on neutering. I believe every animal that is not in the hands of a registered and licensed breeder should be neutered.
There's plenty of medical and behavioural reasons to neuter but also, and I know it's a small chance, an intact dog is more likely to be attacked. And I think most of us has had a moment or two where if our dogs weren't as good as they are things could have been much worse.
Pete

As said everyones choice I just wish the human males on this earth were treated the same!   

Inez Maria wrote:

Lynn&Pete wrote:You can be as blunt as you like with me Inez, I'll never take offence  
But I'll never change my position on neutering. I believe every animal that is not in the hands of a registered and licensed breeder should be neutered.
There's plenty of medical and behavioural reasons to neuter but also, and I know it's a small chance, an intact dog is more likely to be attacked. And I think most of us has had a moment or two where if our dogs weren't as good as they are things could have been much worse.
Pete

As said everyones choice I just wish the human males on this earth were treated the same!   

Excuse me? don't tar us all with the same brush, Inez

Just like staffies, we're a much maligned breed and there's plenty of us being abandoned. We're softer than you think, you know! Blame the trainer, not the trainee!

All males????  

Lynn&Pete wrote:.
There's plenty of medical and behavioural reasons to neuter but also, and I know it's a small chance, an intact dog is more likely to be attacked.
Pete

there's also plenty of evidence not to neuter. and actually, neutered dogs tend to get picked on more than intact ones.

I think neutering/spaying too early is unethical and there's enough evidence for that today. I was under pressure to do my pappa at 5 months. She's 9 months now and haven't even gone into season yet . I could have caused my healthy pup incontinence for all her life and higher risk of hyp-displacia and other medical problems due to too early spaying as a responsible owner it's not going to happen just like unwanted pregnancy as she's not wandering around unsupervised and never will be. Ill consider the pros and cons again between 18-24 months only because of pyometra and also if she'll have phantom pregnancies that are complete nightmare for them. I don't think the unwanted litters are coming from owners like us therefore even if we all did our dogs it won't change a thing!
Some interesting reading:
Www.angryvet.com/spayingandn

Www.angryvet.com/spayingandneutering

Sorry it is
www.angryvet.com/spaying-and-neutering