single pup litters thoughts

Hey everyone
So as iv been on here for a good while my pup is now 1 how scary
Anyway she was a single pup as the boy died at birth and she only had her mum, another older staff and a family member of the breeders dog that was always around. I hadnt really thought much at first how much an impact this would have on things like bite inhibition which at a year we still havent fixed! I guess i thought the older ones would show her the ropes.
Its been a struggle but im at training classes etc n working on the mouthing but i heard alot of breeders get single pups put to sleep :'( as they are never going to be 'normal'?????
On a post on here someone also said that some do tht.

Whats everyones thoughts? I love my little devil to bits and would hate to think wel never sort it all

Hiya I don't think that a "lot" of people have single pup litters PTS, but I think breeders have considered it if they have not been able to find another litter to add to pup to, as a foster mum type situation. I think this is some great information about single pup litters, taken from the book "For the love of a dog"

"After several hours passed, it began to dawn on me that this might be the only puppy. You might not think this is a crisis, but it felt like one to me. Over the years, I have seen what seems to be a disproportionately large number of single litter puppies with serious behaviour problems. Many didn't seem to have any frustrations tolerance, and would spiral into a fury whenever they were pulled away from something that they wanted. They could seem grumpy when touched, would growl or snap when petted, especially if disturbed when asleep. Many of these dogs became seriously aggressive, and their families came to me in despair. Some could, some couldn't, and I was appalled that I might be responsible for creating a dog who caused the kind of emotional suffering I see in my office every week.

I thought about keeping him so that nobody else would have to deal with him. I thought about having him put down. Fat chance of that happening! I decided then to do everything I could do to prevent the problems that I had seen in my office. I spent days asking myself why singleton pups might have less frustration tolerance than pups in litters, and whether there was anything that I could do to prevent it. It seemed reasonable that the problem may relate to lack of frustration during early development. Feeding time is great fun to watch, but it's not always peaches and cream for the puppies. Tiny paws and razor sharp nails flailing, they push and claw and barge their way to the milk bar, wreaking havoc among others who are just about to settle down to a meal. Talk about frustration - puppies spend most of their day trying to get to what they want, only to lose it to another. It seemed reasonable that a single puppy would never experience this kind of irritation, and so never develop a mechanism for handling it."

This pup actually turned out fine and hasn't had any problems, as many do! So don't panic! This is a link to a more in depth article about this pup by the same behaviourist if you'd like some reading material:
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/sites/default/files/Bark%202003%20Spring%20Solo-What%20every%20puppy%20needs%20from%20the%20start.pdf

Another article
http://www.dogbehaviorblog.com/2008/08/singleton-puppi.html

If you read about social periods and how much is learnt from litter mates, it may help you to understand her behaviour more:
http://lindabrodzik.com/articles/shaping-temperament/social-periods/

Was the breeder that you obtained her from an experienced, and caring breeder? Did they try to do anything at all to help her when it turned out she was a singleton?

First of all I would say: don't panic!

I'm not an expert but dogs between the ages of 9 months and 18 months will do everything possible to push the boundaries and push your buttons. That's certainly been my experience. It can be worrying and seem like the end of the world. It can also be really annoying and you feel it will never change.

Is she mouthing or biting? And, if she is biting, who is she biting? Other dogs/you? How does she take treats? Gently/with teeth etc?

Other questions: when did you get her (how old was she?) Does she live with other dogs? You say that you've been having difficulty with things like bite inhibition. Are there other problems you're finding it hard to train out of her?

What I've found in training my dog is that it takes two entire weeks of consistent daily training for him to properly get the hang of a new rule/command.

Lots of other people here will have experience with bite inhibition or lack thereof and I'm sure they will be along shortly!

Well done, in the meantime, for taking her to puppy classes. What does the instructor there say?

Thanks for replying.

It was the breeders second litter and she took her everywhere with her, including her bed with the mum as she was goin to keep her, so she only had 3 adult dogs to 'mentor' her.
Luckily shes never been funny about being petted or anything and she has zero food aggression, me and all the family kids can easily take things of her and she just looks like 'why are u taking this'.
We took her to puppy socialisation when 11 weeks old and she adores other dogs and has never shown agression....if anything she annoys other dogs by being too in their face.
Were currently attending training classes with her and continuing to work with her.
The main issues are when she gets hyper her mouth starts and shes very vocal and growls and snarls but its not attacking, she goes for your feet and arms and thinks its a big game and its usually me or visitors if she gets hyped, its not a bite bite but its sore cos shes not learned to be soft yet.
Another big thing is wen on walks shes fine mostly but then goes nuts and hangs of the lead snarling and jumping.
Only strange behaviour is she runs into the corner when she sees her harness but shes fine wen its on, she has developed a funny fear about 'some' bikes and prams.

Im hopefull she wont be a danger and will be fine as like iv said shes never been grumpy or anything like tht. Maybe she learned the basics from the other big dogs? I know the little dog that was in the house with the breeder was younger than the other 2 and a dominant wee dog so maybe she put her in her place.

I just want this to work out.

Il defo read those articles too!
Oh and i got her at 8 weeks and shes my only dog tho i think she would benefit frm another!
Training instructor just says to work away n not stand for the mouthing and put her out room.....he said mouthing WILL result in a bite later in her life :'( not sure i agree

Hi your little one sounds like a typical staff esp. For her age and what your trainer said re mouthing resulting in a bite later in life I also don't agree with, don't worry about it. We had a rescue staff before Milo who was 14 months old and he licked any bare skin and mouthed a lot, we pretty much let it go as it didn't really cause us a problem he never bit anyone or anything and we lost him at almost 13 BUT when we got Milo we were having none of it as by then we had children and didn't want a mouthing dog. We dealt with his puppy mouthing with distraction method. So when she mouths someone or something she shouldn't tell her to get her raggy toy or whatever toy she has and let her play with it. I don't think just shutting her out is the answer, but maybe this could work? Good luck x

Thanks for replying :-D its nice to hear its staffy behaviour and not just her bein 'bad'.
Yeah my sisters kids are 15 and 7 and theb7 yr old is all arms and legs.....doesnt help but i would never leave her unnattended with a child.

My children are 10, 7 and 5 and we currently have an 8 week old mouther in the form of a tiny patterdale x JRT! The children are getting in on the action too and telling her to get her 'rope', her 'bone' or her 'squeeky' Milo will go and find the toy you tell him to get your neices in on the training action too

have you added another hour onto is walks? are you being consistent with him is everyone being consistent with him

any good trainer will say this
tired dog = an good dog, not tired dog = an problems

I don't know any thing about breeding but many dogs have bite inhibition problems from being removed from the litter too soon so I wouldn't worry xx

Il give tht a try thanks :-D
Thanks everyone its great having people tht can relate and advise!
We are being consistant, the first training class we went to never helped it more hindered us as the people werent great with anythin other thn toy dogs, we often got asked to stand in the hall til she calmed down!?!?!?! Not what we paid for

rico24 wrote:Thanks for replying.

It was the breeders second litter and she took her everywhere with her, including her bed with the mum as she was goin to keep her, so she only had 3 adult dogs to 'mentor' her.
Luckily shes never been funny about being petted or anything and she has zero food aggression, me and all the family kids can easily take things of her and she just looks like 'why are u taking this'.
We took her to puppy socialisation when 11 weeks old and she adores other dogs and has never shown agression....if anything she annoys other dogs by being too in their face.
Were currently attending training classes with her and continuing to work with her.
The main issues are when she gets hyper her mouth starts and shes very vocal and growls and snarls but its not attacking, she goes for your feet and arms and thinks its a big game and its usually me or visitors if she gets hyped, its not a bite bite but its sore cos shes not learned to be soft yet.
Another big thing is wen on walks shes fine mostly but then goes nuts and hangs of the lead snarling and jumping.
Only strange behaviour is she runs into the corner when she sees her harness but shes fine wen its on, she has developed a funny fear about 'some' bikes and prams.

Im hopefull she wont be a danger and will be fine as like iv said shes never been grumpy or anything like tht. Maybe she learned the basics from the other big dogs? I know the little dog that was in the house with the breeder was younger than the other 2 and a dominant wee dog so maybe she put her in her place.

I just want this to work out.

Il defo read those articles too!
Oh and i got her at 8 weeks and shes my only dog tho i think she would benefit frm another!
Training instructor just says to work away n not stand for the mouthing and put her out room.....he said mouthing WILL result in a bite later in her life :'( not sure i agree

Remember, take breed and personality into account too. In the studies mentioned, it doesn't say anything about breed, and staffies as a whole tend to be pretty steady dogs, especially with people, so the grumpiness and snappiness you may get with a different terrier, or spaniel for example, you may not get with a staffie. It's very hard to decipher what's normal and what's not without seeing behaviour; obviously you've been having troubles with excessive mouthing for a while, but when written in text, it could sound like normal puppy behaviour that others have experienced too. I had a little white staffie bitch in kennels who would grab hold of arms and draw blood, she was in kennels for 2 years and got put to sleep in the end because the environment that she was in was making it impossible for her to learn, and how many people do you know that will want to adopt a dog that's grabbing hold of their arms? It's so important to get mouthing under control early; I'd imagine that what the dog trainer was referring to, was the fact that as she's so accustomed to using her mouth, she would be more likely to bite than a dog that has been trained not to. Doesn't mean that she's aggressive, just that she's more likely to bite in frustration. Have a read of this http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/mouthing-nipping-and-play-biting-adult-dogs

From what you're saying, it doesn't sound like she's aggressive but frustrated. It doesn't sound to me that she has any impulse control, or frustration tolerance (as discussed in the initial piece about single pup litters.) As well meaning as the breeder was by taking her to bed and babying her, she probably should have been more focused on working with her behaviour, but, many breeders aren't hugely informed in training or behaviour (which is why we have so many problems with mismatched dogs, and lacking neonatal socialisation.) When my step mum bred her litter, she analyzed their behaviour and homed them to people with suitable temperaments. You shouldn't home a shy dog to a busy family home, or a pushy dog to first time inexperienced dog owners, though of course there are always exceptions to every rule. Environment plays a massive part. You need to build her frustration tolerance and keep her environment low arousal. I would suggest getting to a one to one behaviourist rather than a training class. I can't send you a training plan without seeing the extent of her mouthing, it may well be "normal" and just something that you haven't experienced before, but from your previous posts it does sound to be excessive.

Super reply Rachel, if only more breeders were more like your step mum instead of the quick buck!

Thanks rachel!
Its really excessive.....like today i was looking after the 7 year old at my sisters house and my mum was in with her up til 3 so at 345 me n my niece went to take her a walk and we went into the playpark for her to play and i was holdin her on lead but she was barking cos she wanted to play and go for her shoes and was getting so uptight she was jumping and nipping at my jacket. My mum is freaking out that we would need to rehome her cos she cant be near the kids cos shes too hyper. In the house tho shes will sit beside us and have a chew treat and chill but then will jump down and start nibling at my feet etc.
We cant find a 1 on 1 that we can afford just now as weve had a bit of a nightmare time with household stuff and as she managed to get my glasses so was alot at opticians for 2 new pairs! Also we tried 3 one to ones locally (i know them as i work in the pet trade) and theyr choka block just now and one only does puppy one to one.

Is there any good books anyone can recomend? I had read alot of really positive reviews about cesar millans books.

I just feel something needs to happen to really tell her its not on.

We had a english bully before and she was a lazy n really easy going wee thing so maybe its the shock from that to THIS!!!

I just need some sort of guidance.

Shes at class tonight so il chat to them again and see how we go. Il be sure to post later.

Thanks guys and no problem! Okay Rico, a few questions; what is her routine? (Feeding time/exercise times, lengths and type of exercise), what is she fed on, which commands does she already know? How do you react when she mouths/grabs feet, have you ever played with her with your feet or hands or is it just toy play?

Ceasar Millan really isn't a trainer, there's no theory behind his work other than outdated wolf studies; he teaches no commands, just uses intimidation which doesnt work. I would whole heartedly suggest Patricia McConnell "the other end of the leash" and "for the love of a dog" for basic learning theory and the science behind our interactions with dogs. For training you could try "when pigs fly training with impossible dogs" though this is quite clicker based. Remember, she isn't a puppy anymore. Puppyhood ends at 6 months, she is now an adolescent, though still learning.

She made me so proud at class tonight she was great! Trainer even said to me afterwards that i must be workin really hard with her....i could have cried it was such a gd feeling. I spoke to one of the instructors and she said she has a staffy cross so she spent a few mins handling her and she was getting her to sit etc and then she started being higher pitched and mildly exciting ro see how she was and of course she jumped up and was a bit mouthy and she said its typical staffy behaviour...not aggression.

Her breeders other dog was feet obbsessed and breeder even showed me vids after i had the pup of her carryin on with the dog using her feet....frustrating much!?!?!?!

So she gets fed at bout 9 am and again bout half 5 and is fed arden grange now mixed with forthglade wet.
She gets 2 long walks bout an hour each and a round block late on. Throughout the day she plays with her toys too.
She knows sit, stay, lie, can circle her while in sit, paw, bow.

For mouthing we tried yelping which done nothing, ignoring which done nothing, putting her out he room etc etc all of which we were told to try

Will check those books out!
Thanks

2 of the books ordered last night :-)

Wonderful news hun! Glad there's been an improvement. As previously mentioned, I don't think it's aggression either but I don't think that it should just be passed as typical staffy behaviour as IMO it's very inappropriate behaviour. Out of the 1000's of staffies that I've met and worked with, less than 50 have carried out this behaviour to an excessive level.

She was playing with the dog with her feet?! Oh dear lord! Arden Grange is a pretty good food, burns may be even better for her as it's lower in protein; always used it for my collies and other working breeds stuck in kennels that have naturally high activity levels. When she's walked does she like to sniff and mark things or is she more of a running around dog? Does she like toys and can she leave on command without issue?

How about putting something in her mouth when she starts getting over excited, for example a raggy rope toy?

I went on a course recently with a behaviourist called Julie Bedford from the Blue Cross, who highly recommends tug of war games as breed specific play for bull breeds. It tires them out, gets them to use their jaws and mouths and as staffordshire bull terrier's are trained to hold onto things it taps into their natural drives; as herding would a collie, or retrieving a labrador. However, your dog must be well trained before doing this, and adults only, maybe have a chat with the trainers about it next week and see if they think she would be ready for that?

You'll love the books

Thanks so much :-D
Yeah i know i was like whaaaaatttt!!!! Wen she showed me the vid.
I agree its very innapropriate behaviour, the trainer suggested pet corrector spray. Il give ur suggestion a try tho iv tried it with her stagbar but she wanted my hand instead. Shes a very wingy dog lol but shes been like tht since day 1 shes always making some sort of noise haha.
I tried burns as i work in pet retail but she refused to eat it. She wants to run but i have to keep her close as too much freedom she swings off lead growling but saying tht she is sniffy too and trainer said not to let her stop unless i want her too. With toys she has a shake at them and throws stuff around and i can get it off her, she doesnt growl or anythin but pushes her luck and holds it tighter for a while.
Aww great cant wait til they come now, thanks alot for the recomendation

i do the naughty step work for me everytime... if any of my dog does some bad they get place on their bed till i'm happy they been there long enough... then i will call their name and they will be a lot calmer

Thanks steve. All great tips to try, really appreciate hearing all your different methods :-D

It's really odd isn't it? People are confusing at times. I'm not a huge fan of pet corrector but it can be useful in circumstances where nothing else has worked. Stag bar may be a little hard, a raggy would be more interactive and easier to carry. We taught biscuit that teeth don't belong on skin and now if she gets over excited in play she runs off and grabs a soft toy and gives that a shake/chew instead they are very vocal as a breed lol!

Hm yeah it's not particularly appetising food. Does she ever get raw meaty bones? This may be a good way to exercise her jaw not too often as they can upset tummies or cause constipation. Or what about kongs or activity balls? So does she ever get time off lead? Great that she will let go, I would recommended a strong leave command rather than arguing with her about getting it back with her

No off lead time i put her on a long line of flexi at park so i still have control. Il try with a rope toy then, she gets the odd pigs ear and rawhide bones or filled bones etc, shes never been too fussed with the kong, iv tried different things in it as kong paste upset her and also made her act like a looney! She likes a tad pnut butter.
Haha its so funny all the noises shes a nutcase but i love her to bits!
Thanks for everything!!!!

When you walk her, is it a fairly open space without too many dogs/people? I use a 50ft long lead for biscuit attached to her trixie dog harness and then she can have a proper run around. Biscuit was sooooo badly behaved when she was only getting lead walks. I would bet that a good run twice daily would calm her down massively!

Do you have a butchers near by? If so pop in and ask about dog bones suitable for a staffy, chewing releases endorphins and Biscuit is always so calm and happy after a chewing session. I've known her to chew on a bone for 2 hours straight! Though always supervise as Biscuit has tried to swallow the end once and I had to pull it out of her throat!! The filled bones are usually filled with stuff that makes them hyper too. I fill biscuits kong with nature diet or forthglade and feed her in that twice a day keeps her little brain ticking over! As you feed dry an activity ball would be great to keep her occupied too, they're the strength of boomer balls so can be a little noisy but sturdy!

Biscuit snorts like a piglet lol, we call her pot belly bis! No worries at all, you're a wonderful owner and you will get there I'm sure!

Steve wrote:i do the naughty step work for me everytime... if any of my dog does some bad they get place on their bed till i'm happy they been there long enough... then i will call their name and they will be a lot calmer

The only thing thats works for my too as well except I use the loo, boring horrid pace. Being nice has it place but when treating for bad behaviour it only takes less than a min in the sin bin. Any more they forget what they are in the for.

Hey
My area is full of dogs and dog walkers lol so its hard to avoid them. I took her a walk with my sisters dog yest n kept her on her long lead but let her dog off and she had great fun and was very well behaved.
Yeah there a butcher 5 min away so il ask them.
Oh il try the forthglade cos she gets that in with the dry :-D

Thanks so much i am trying!!

Hey
One of my books came n really enjoyin it so far!
So classes have been going really good, so much better and i feel im making a great deal of progress with her! We got a tiny can of pet corrector and used it once and since then if she starts i let her see me reach for it and she stops.
Only thing is shes now in season....just started last night!!!! So she cant go to clas for a couple weeks :'( il continue practicing anyway. I think its going better and i can continue without having to get a one to one trainer as i think she will learn more with the class as its distractions and she needs to get over that.

How's it going?

Pictures?