Am I being unreasonable?

Hi guys

My family are refusing to visit or allow me to visit them with Calvin unless I muzzle him, This has annoyed me because I was happy to have him on a short lead at all times if they visit or I visit them, especially if my 4 year old Nephew will be around but I think muzzling would be unfair to Calvin as he has never showed a hint of aggression and he would possible associate children with negative things happening to him. He has played with dog savvy children before, my neighbour who walks him when I am on early shifts has a 5 year old son with learning difficulties and they allow him to play gently with Calvin under supervision and have had no problems. He has also interacted with a few kids who were out walking their pet dogs with their families whilst we let the dogs play. A few asked if they could pet him whilst we were in a pub garden post walk the other day, again no issues what so ever. They are not even happy for me to walk Calvin on lead and with some distance between him and my nephew whilst he rides his bike unless I muzzle him, which was how I thought it would be best to introduce the two of them.

The main reason why it has upset me is because it is purely because he is a staffy, my nan had a border collie whilst we were growing up, she was never muzzled around us, I used to walk my mums friends springer spaniel for her as she didn't like walking him, again he was never muzzled. My uncles Doberman cross was never muzzled and my cousins huge german shepard was never muzzled around anyone either. They have openly stated that they hate staffys and that they are devil dogs. I am certain that if Calvin was a different breed, especially if he was a small fluffy thing they would not be insisting on muzzling him.

I am a stubborn person and part of me wants to put my foot down and just not interact with them until they relax a bit and refuse to allow them over if they insist I have to muzzle him. But part of me wonders if I am being stupid and unreasonable and that I should muzzle him if that's what they want as I don't want to miss out on my nephew growing up. What do you think?

You are not being in any way unreasonable. I wouldn't muzzle him in a million years if it was me. I'd go down the education route, because that's obviously the issue; sounds like they've been reading too many newspapers! Maybe they could even have a look through the forum and see the hundreds of wonderful, level headed and friendly staffies on here? There are lots of positive videos of children and staffies interacting nicely on youtube that may help too! Good luck xx

I wouldn't muzzle him either, if he is not welcome to visit then neither would I be. Do you not have a crate or a spare room he could go in whilst they visit you ?

I have three brothers and when one of them visits us I pop Rocky in his crate as he gets very excited.

This certainly does create a dillema. I can see the education point of view as my nieghbour said exactly the same "Devil dog" quote but now loves Flo to bits.

It would be a real shame to miss out on seeing your nephew. Is there no way of showing how soft Staffys really are so that they can see that not all dogs are the same.

I agree that this forum is a good way to start educating those that have been mislead by the media especially the great pics and videos.

They are the ones being unreasonable!

^^^ I agree, they're being unreasonable

Keeping him on the lead is fine but to muzzle is completely over the top!

Nope I wouldn't either and certainly not unreasonable of you   

I probably wouldn't muzzle in this situation, how well behaved is the child? Is he likely to make sudden movements, pester Calvin when he sleeps etc

I only say this as I was caught off guard in pets at home once a toddler away from parents turned a corner and grabbed Ledgers tail and once when a parent asked if their daughter if they could approach Ledger she poked him in the eye, both times he was calm and the second he gently brushed his nose against the back of her hand and she then started gently stroking him but both were situations where you get home and think s*** what if

Keep him on a lead but don't muzzle. Try and educate them first and if they still want him muzzled I would refuse.   

We are back from our walk and I have calmed down quite a bit now.

Thanks for your support guys, I was considering doing it but I am really not happy about it. They aren't even happy with a wire muzzle it has to be the cloth type that completely stops the dog from opening its mouth. Calvin does not like having things put over his head or face, he hates it when I wipe his head and face with a towel after walks, he also hates the process of his canicross harness being put on as part of it slides over his head, he is fine once its on.

They are saying those other dogs did not need to be muzzled because they had had them from pups and mine would be unpredictable and more likely to bite as he is rescue. I did get angry on the phone and said I wouldn't be going over or allow them to visit and they have said I am putting a dog before my family and that makes me a bad person. It doesn't help that there is already tension in the family as they lent us a few grand to help us pay the deposit on a house we are buying.

At the moment we are in a bungalow and there is no spare room for him to go into, he would have to be shut in the bedroom or put outside. Once we are in our new house there will be spare room and I have been thinking of crate training him for a while in case we have children ourselves and as a safe and quiet place for when the scary maintainance men come. He is excitable for a few mins when people first arrive and will jump up, but he soon calms. Keeping him on a lead is one of the ways I was trying to compromise and would also help to stop him jumping up at my nephew.

My nephew is quite good around animals, he has a pet hamster who he handles very gently, he has also handled my gerbils very gently, imo the gerbils are much more likely to bite than Calvin is. He likes the idea of dogs but gets a little scared if they come close. This is why I just wanted to walk calvin near him the first few times so he sees he is ok, I wouldn't bring calvin over to him or get him to come over to us until he is ready.

My sister claims to love dogs but is abit worried about them around her son due to all the recent dog attacks, she wasn't very happy with my choice of dog when we got him. However the muzzling thing has not come directly from her, my parents are the ones insisting upon it. They are childminders and so we are not allowed over during the week because even if he accidently scratched one of those children there would be a lot of trouble for my parents.

I can take staffy bashing from randoms and just ignore it, but it is upsetting to hear it come from my own family. I think I will give it a few days for everyone to calm down before I come up with a plan of action.

It all sounds so stressful I think the main thing to focus on when talking to them is that for a very few severe attacks (none of which have been from pure bred staffies or their crosses) there are hundreds of thousands of bull breeds living peacefully in homes with children without issue. All rescue dogs have to come from somewhere, and many are from responsible homes with adequate socialisation and care!

Show them this article
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/every-dangerous-dog-dangerous-owner-3161911#.Uxenywobx0E.facebook

I have no advice for this but just wanted to say good luck because that's quite a position they've put you in! Do what YOU feel is right for you x

I would probably muzzle him. The one really missing out is your nephew and if introducing your staffy on a muzzle breaks the ice then I say hive it a chance. I'd put money on it that after a few interactions and seeing that you are responsible and the dog isn't vicious they will calm down. Once they've calmed down you can try to educate them about the realities of the breed.

You can't change their opinion if you're absent from the discussion.

Educate your family about the true Stafford Breed. Google Dog attacks on Humans, Staffords do not make top 50 in any of the returned surveys.

Article on Sunday Brunch 2 weeks ago with KC judge confirming that Crossbreeds and any Bull type Dogs are often mislabelled as SBTs in the Media. Available on 4od (85 mins in to prog).

Alternatively I would consider muzzling the family.

The thing that makes people dog people is often whether they have known dogs in their childhood. We always had dogs and there is no doubt that it's a life-enriching experience. It opens up vistas of happiness that non-dog people cannot access. The key loser in this situation may be the nephew.

yeahbut wrote:The key loser in this situation may be the nephew.

Totally agree.

I asked the same on here when we got our girl who was 8 months when we got her from a family with 3 kids aged 3, 5 & 7. My stepdaughter asked us to muzzle Tess as she had a 2 year old
daughter (now 4). My stepdaughter had grown up with our previous Staffy with no issues, however I think as we got Tess at 8 months and not from a pup, she felt she may be unpredictable (also Tess is huge compared to our last old girlie). It was suggested to me NOT to muzzle her as it would be confusing to her - I didn't want to use one anyway as Tess had never EVER shown any aggression & she was used to kids from her previous home - needless to say, I said no - the pair of them are actually inseparable when they call in - Tess just follows Lexi everywhere like a sheep !! We obviously keep an eye on things as Tess is like a bull in a china shop and has a wicked wag but its clear they love each other - I'm glad I stuck to my guns x

I would not muzz either. They are the ones that need muzzling for ever sugessting this and for being sheep. You stick to your rules in your own home and this includes how you want your staffie treated. The nephew is missing out because of their pig headed ways and the fact that they think they have a right to control you! Sorry to say this but it's because of people like them that staffies have such a bad rep. You can help put a stop to it. A dog is for life therefore a member of the family.

I'd also like to mention that the cloth muzzle that would hold his mouth shut is only recommended for extremely short periods (vets/groomers) as dogs cannot pant, drink or yawn with them on. It would be dangerous to exercise him in one of these muzzles, especially with the weather getting warmer. And you would have to spend a few weeks training him to wear the muzzle also, maybe more if he's got a real aversion to restrictions around his head/face x

That's a good point Rachel, you cannot just shove a muzzle onto a dog and hope it's OK, you have to go through a length of time getting the dog used to it, which sounds, in your case, like it would take a long time to get him used to it.

The only time I would muzzle is if the dog showed aggression. Yours clearly has not so the answer is rather than spend weeks training your dog to wear a muzzle spend those weeks educating your family. There is a great article from a Guardian reporter, I will try to find it, anyway she wanted to rescue a dog and "accidentally" rescued a staffy. She didn't want the staffy describing it as rough and scary looking but after one day she fell in love. The article is fantastic and from a lady who is not a stereotype staffy owner (she actually wanted a gundog if I remember correctly). I'll find it and post if in the news section for you to show your family it may help

I really want to talk to my sister as all this has come from my parents and not directly from her, so I don't know if it is a condition they have decided upon or if its how she truly feels, I can see my sister wanting to muzzle him if he is in the house but I thought she wouldnt think like that for taking Calvin for a on lead walk with her and my nephew seeing as they wouldnt be making physical contact. They are very protective of their grandson as he is possibly the only grandchild they will ever have, my sis is a single mother and spends several hours per day most days of the week round my parents. I Have told them that a soft muzzle is a very bad idea and if I was going to do it, it would be a wire one, probably the Baskerville one several people on this forum use.

We didn't have a dog in our house growing up, we (the kids) wanted one but our parents did not, I think it was right that they didn't get one as ultimately they would be the ones responsible for the dog. We did have a cat, and several rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters and gerbils. We did regularily interact wit other family and friends dogs. Currently I am the only family member with a dog, my cousins last dog got dog napped and so she doesn't want to risk another at this point in time, my uncle was to upset when his died to go through it again, my nan struggles to walk very far now, but she continues to dog sit her friends small elderly toy breeds. I don't think any of my sisters friends have dogs either. I do think my nephew could potentially grow up with a fear of dogs if they don't eventually allow him to interact with any dogs.

The one who is most anti staffy and anti dog in general is my dad, he is an ex police officer and most of his interactions with dogs have been negative, he worked in inner Bristol and unfortunately most of the dogs he met in negative ways were staffys and pitbulls before they were banned.

I don't think they understand the relationship me and my partner have with Calvin, we view him as a family member, they say hes just a dog and therefore doesn't need anything beyond food, water and walks. They have even had the cheek to say I have him as a child substitute, especially as I went and got him some dog puzzles and I do call him my baby boy sometimes, but I do not think I treat him like a human. The puzzles were to give him some mental stimulation and something to do indoors as well as plenty of exercise. They have also said that if Me and my partner did manage to have a child we would be bad irresponsible parents for having an adult dog in the house, especially his type of dog and that we might need to rehome him!

My nan is visiting tomorrow and she loves all dogs, perhaps after she has seen Calvin she could talk some sense into them. The other option is to visit my nephew but leave Calvin at home. It would mean the visits are fairly brief (I live in Wales, they are in Bristol) but I would still get to see him. They have only visited our home 4x in the last 1.5 years anyway, and only one of those times did they bring my nephew.

Wow, they have put you in a pretty tough spot. If it were me I would put my foot down and tell them where to go, but it would be nice that your nephew grew up to be confident around dogs.

If you do decide to muzzle him, then as previously mentioned, you will have to train him for a while to be comfortable wearing it so that he sees it just like he would see his collar or lead. Otherwise it will be child=muzzle=bad.

Have your family members ever heard of the Nanny Dog - please ask them to take some time to have a look at this forum and read for themselves what characteristics the breed has:

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/breed/standard.aspx?id=3080

Characteristics

Traditionally of indomitable courage and tenacity. Highly intelligent and affectionate especially with children.

Wow! Are you sure there are no other deep seated issues between you or your partner and your Parents.

They seem to be trying to punish you for some reason. I don't think I have ever heard anything so harsh.

Nan sounds like a lifeline. Hold on tight to Nan I thinks!

I would put my foot right up their ar5e Darcy is my baby despite having two children!! I call her baby girl, why ? Because she is! She is the 5th member of our family! I'm sorry Hun but I'm afraid if someone parents or not were saying these things about Darcy they be given an ultimatum to educate themselves and except her or be cut out of my life! Xx

I really don't even know what to say to that! Just really feel for you, as Tony has said, it sounds like some deeper seated issues if theirs, not yours.

When I first adopted Biscuit I didn't know anything about her because she was a stray, my step mum has whippets and didn't want Biscuit anywhere near them "just in case" which is understandable given her size and strength, but now 3 years down the line she still hasn't met her dogs despite proving to be sociable. I can work around it as they're only an hour away and I rarely see them, so can pop in for a cuppa and leave Bis in the car to sleep after a big walk or they can visit me without the dogs.

However, my sister lives in the same city as me now and is due to have her first baby in July. We've talked about Biscuit (she has met children now and seems to love them!) and my sister trusts my judgement and knows that Biscuit is well trained and will listen, which is ultimately all it comes down to.

I too worked in Central Bristol, closely with the police and the dangerous dog problem there for years and I can't say it's made me believe they're all devil dogs. In fact I myself was attacked by a mastiff and watched two of my friends get ripped to shreds by an ebt and an American bulldog, but it still didn't change my perception because I've taken the time to learn about dogs and have spent time with thousands of bull breeds that are wonderful, well socialized dogs. I've also seen a horrendous attack (leaving facial scarring) from a westie, a golden retriever holding hostage a room full of people and so many collie bites I've lost count.

I'm in a similar situation with my sister in law not wanting my neice to come over to stay the night at ours because of Gordon (she's 6 ). They also live about an hours drive away, so I take a day out once a month and go and visit for the day, taking my neice out so we can spend quality time together. Is this something you would consider doing?. Good luck with whatever you decide to do x

Well my nan liked Calvin and agreed with me. The rest of the family have decided that they don't want him being anywhere near my nephew after watching dangerous dogs on tv last night. This suits me as I don't need to muzzle and Iv had enough of their crap. They never make the effort to visit me anyway, its always me that has to go to them. Il visit my nephew a few times per year without Calvin, Id prefer it to be me and him alone without the rest of them. I wonder what they would think if they knew we had been considering getting a second dog somewhere down the line.

That's such a shame,some people really don't have a clue about how gentle and loving staffys are. My 3 year old neice loves my staffy but I'm lucky enough that my sister grew up with my dog and knows how gentle he is.
Hopefully they change how they feel towards your dog.

They are the ones missing out and so its their lose! I love that link from Rachel, so true. Perhaps you could post this to your family. I know I am being harsh, and I feel for you, but stick to your guns.

Shame they would not even try and get to know him

To be honest, if after watching that program they did not realise that it is the Owners that are the problem and not the dogs, then no amount of education is going to help.

I feel sorry for them. Their loss.

They said it is largely down to owners but that bull breeds are more dangerous than others due to being previously used for fighting and I think it was the bit about the rehomed dog that killed a little girl after 2 months in its new home that sealed the deal in their minds. They wont trust him because firstly he is a bull breed dog and secondly he is a rescue dog. Possibly they will change their mind to some extent when my nephew is a little older. To say I am upset and disappointed is an understatement.

i havnt read all posts on this but your dilemia seems unreasonable what about training classes if u find a good one they give you so many tips and advice on issues that we as humans dont even realise its not just the dog that needs training children and adults needs training on how to behave too! any dog at the end of the day is an animal and has instincts we as humans need to respect this and not only train our family and especially our children on how to behave responsibly around dogs! both my dogs are rescue dogs and i have a 18 month old grandaughter whom i would never leave alone with my dogs not just for her sake but ive caught her trying to bite chester and poke his eyes before so im teaching my grandaughter aswell as the dogs on how to behave. a crate is a very good way to seperate the dog from the family but should never be used as a punishment! chester was crate trained but i dont use it anymore! its a large crate and free to a good home if collected! i hope u sort this problem as families are great but also can be a pain in the arse!