Help! Doggie WW3

Hi everyone, this is my first post on this forum. I need some advice.

I have two staffy's, male & female (will post pics soon), now the female has recently come off heat and I'm quite sure she is pregnant (3 weeeks approx).

The female is much more highly strung than the male, maybe because of her age, she is two years old now, whereas the male is about five or six years old. She normally tries to dominate the male and he is such a good natured dog, that he usually lets her off with a warning and in less than a minute the squabble is usually over. but last night she attacked the male and it was a full on fight, i really thought they would seriously maim or kill each other, i tried everything to break them apart, until eventually i ran to connect the hose and sprayed water directly into their mouths, reasoning that the need to breathe would be more urgent than the need to kill each other, long story short, the water directly into their mouths worked and i managed to get them apart.

After all the commotion, wet, cold and bloody, I inspected them for any serious injuries, dried them off and decided to keep them separated over night. This morning i 're-introduce' them to each other and they immediately go into high alert, literally like two male dogs! and it starts all over again, luckily i was prepared and quickly separated them before they could lock onto each other.

I don't want to have to keep one or the other locked up for half the day and then repeat for the other one, and i also don't really want to chain them up, but it seems that until the female gives birth i cannot let them get close to each other because i really believe they will do serious harm to each other if not literally kill each other.

Has anyone had experience with this sort of behavior? any suggestions?

Hi & welcome to the forum.

Is the dog the pups' father? Nothing to do with the question, just interested!

I think the behaviour is almost certainly related to her season/possible pregnancy. Her hormones are all over the place & she probably sees your dog as a threat to her/her pups' safety.

I would really recommend keeping them apart until the pups are at least 4 or 5 weeks old and then try a gentle reintroduction without the pups around.

I know this is going to make things difficult for you, but I can't see any other way around it in the short term.

Hi Caryll

Thanks for the response.

Yes, this is the pups father.

Is it possible that he might be a threat to the pups once they are born?

I agree with Caryll. When bitches are pregnant or lactating their hormone are all ovet the place, they can even be snappy when they are in season (this is the only time my two girls really prickle at each other). I would try to keep them apart if possible, though I appreciate that this will be hard given they are both your dogs. Are your dogs crate trained? Perhaps giving the bitch her own crate will settle her (covered with a blanket), if you position the crate so that it covers a doorway this will help to make her feel safe and will also stop the dogs getting too close.

Difficult one really, not sure what to suggest apart from if possible keep them apart.

I doubt it very much, but she might see him that way! Once they're more mobile, she should start to relax a bit & may accept him again.

Also it is unlikely that he is even thinking about harming the pups and even less likely he will once they are born. Your girl's instintc are just causing her to be a bit snappy and over-protective.

yea not much else to add other than what has already been said, separate them. The dog almost certainly will not hurt the pups but i have known of a few cases where the bitch has killed her own pups when a male has been near them as she got so stressed out. x

thanks everyone. Looks like I'm going to have a long month or two ahead keeping these two away from each other.

Your girl will almost probably fight your male the only thing she has in her mind is too protect her babies and may even be short tempered with you when they are new born. She needs a quiet place just for herself and you have to question yourself is it worth putting them through this.
Hope everything goes okay for your girl

gem wrote:Your girl will almost probably fight your male the only thing she has in her mind is too protect her babies and may even be short tempered with you when they are new born. She needs a quiet place just for herself and you have to question yourself is it worth putting them through this.
Hope everything goes okay for your girl

Absolutley, without wanting u upset at all, are both your dogs kc reg and fully health tested? If not then your girl should not really have ever been bred anyway and also with all this upset for both u and the dogs would it be kinder to them both 2 end the pregnancy and spay? Like i said not wanting to upset u at all just giving u an idea if u hadnt already thought of it. x

blaze wrote:

gem wrote:Your girl will almost probably fight your male the only thing she has in her mind is too protect her babies and may even be short tempered with you when they are new born. She needs a quiet place just for herself and you have to question yourself is it worth putting them through this.
Hope everything goes okay for your girl

Absolutley, without wanting u upset at all, are both your dogs kc reg and fully health tested? If not then your girl should not really have ever been bred anyway and also with all this upset for both u and the dogs would it be kinder to them both 2 end the pregnancy and spay? Like i said not wanting to upset u at all just giving u an idea if u hadnt already thought of it. x

Ditto.

Hi guys, i hear you, but i don't understand the logic behind your reasoning of not having them breed.

They are not KC reg. but they are healthy and have regular visits to the vet.

I'm i guessing correctly that the biggest reason for not breeding them would be because of possible genetic diseases?

Other than that, would i be somewhat correct in assuming that this behavior is normal to some extent? I have been advised by our vet that it is not unusual for the female to display this aggression towards any other dogs, in this case made worse by the fact the the breed is by nature a 'fighting' dog.

Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Zoogie wrote:Hi guys, i hear you, but i don't understand the logic behind your reasoning of not having them breed.

They are not KC reg. but they are healthy and have regular visits to the vet.

I'm i guessing correctly that the biggest reason for not breeding them would be because of possible genetic diseases?

Other than that, would i be somewhat correct in assuming that this behavior is normal to some extent?

Okay - first I just want to say that this isn't meant as criticism, but I'll answer your questions honestly.

- I am assuming you're in the UK somewhere (so ignore this point if I'm wrong), meaning there's a huge surplus of staffies and staffie crosses in shelters searching for good and loving homes. If you get 7 puppies in this litter that means 7 dogs already in shelters won't get a new home.
- are you prepared to spend the money it costs to have the dogs eyes, hips and elbows checked? Are you okay paying loads of money for an emergency c-section in the middle of the night if necessary? Are you prepared to health check the puppies, vaccinate and de-worm and make sure they all come to good homes. Are you willing to keep the pups for whatever time it takes for them to provide the right homes for them, even if it means feeding them and caring for them for months? If not, I say the responsible thing to do is to end this pregnancy.
- although dog aggression is an aspect of our breed, and not uncommon, it is still undesirable. In my opinion this is perhaps the most unfortunate part of this breeding as these traits are likely to be passed on to her offspring. If I went to visit a litter of puppies and the bitch shows aggression towards any other dog there I wouldn't buy a puppy. It's okay for them to be a little protective of their pups, but to get aggressive is unacceptable IMO. She can still be a lovely pet, but from what we've heard breeding her might not be a very good idea. It will be a stressful time for all of you, keeping them apart and perhaps dealing with her disliking you or a vet handling the pups when they are born, which will be necessary.

Hi Aniemother

First of all, I want to state that I am not offended by any of the comments or replies I have received, honestly your views are all appreciated, which is why I signed up, to get advice from other people who have more experience than me with this breed.

Just to clarify, I am not in the UK, I am in Zimbabwe. And very few people have staffies here, staffie pups (staffies in general) are somewhat rare here. In fact I have only ever met two other people that own staffies here.
In terms of the care of the parents or the pups, that goes without saying. I fully understand the responsibility that comes with owning a pet of any kind.

As for the aggression, I fully agree with you, aggression is totally unacceptable, having said that, Sprocket has always been a loving and gentle dog, apart from trying to dominate the male every once in a while, she has never shown aggression to anyone in my family, or even to any other dog, not even so much as a growl to my kids or my wife, the severity of this incident with Rusty (the male) seems to have come about because of some pregnancy hormonal change (ask any man who has had a pregnant wife to deal with…), I think it is reasonable to assume that either once she nears birth or after the birth she will return to normal. And while dog aggression is an aspect of this breed, I believe that hormonal changes aside, a well adjusted, properly socialized dog will show balance and maintain their position in the pack hierarchy. As it stands, there has been ONE incident of note worthy aggression to the male and as a precaution I’m keeping them separated, her behaviour towards me or any other human has not changed at all so far. I don’t think that this incident can be seen as an ingrained behavioural trait that might be passed on to her pups at all.

I’m no dog behaviour specialist, but isn’t it possible that her hormone fueled aggression could be focused on the male not because she sees him as a threat but because she is asserting her position in the pack, as I have stated before, she tends to want to dominate him.

I also believe that barring any unforeseen complications with the pregnancy, it would be more cruel to terminate the pregnancy, apart from the aggression to the male, she is otherwise healthy and happy and I think it would be far more traumatic to her and my family to terminate the pregnancy.

This is a new experience for both me and my dogs, and I honestly don't think that burning down the house to get rid of the rats is a practical solution.

PS. I have posted pics of the two estranged love birds in the photo section.

Regarding the pregnacy It is perfectly normal for a pregant bitch to be agressive protective etc while she is pregnant and when the pups are born although from when the pups are about 4/5 weeks she should be settling down and you should be really trying to handle and introduce the pups to as much as possible. Having said that it is not uncomman once a bitch has been mated for it never again to be the loving dog u once knew and u have to be prepared for this. I would definatley reccomed separating them AT ALL times when u are not there to directly supervise and obviously once the pups are born the male will have to be kept well away as the bitch WILL kill him or the pups if she feel threatened.
Regarding wether you should or should not have bred them its really up to you but i would say if they were not KC reg and not health tested for all hereditery dieseases which u say they were not then the answer is no but its a bit late for that haha!
Would it be fair to say from reading inbetween the lines that u are new to breeding and dont really no what u are doing? If so please please buy a book called "the book of the bitch" Its a fantastic book and i always reccommend it in situations like these, it will help u so much while she is pregnant and once the pups are born. You can buy in very cheaply on amazon or ebay. Good luck and please keep posting your progress x

see.... we learn everyday!

I never had this problem with Taz and Cassie if anything they were even more affectionate when it came to grooming each other and he went easy on her when it came to playing. Once the pups where born she was weary, she aloud Taz to sniff but nothing else, I guess it doesn't help when your male and female where not getting along in the first place. You should of corrected her when it came to her trying to dominate your male thats not at all fair on him, when they do fight after you have stopped them seperating them will only make it worse, have them both lay on their sides in a nice calm way until the growling or trying to get to each other stops, giving correction to one who is growling or trying to get to the other dog. when you do seperate them the only thing they are learning is "if i attack him she'll take him away", there for the dog who started it controls the situation and becomes even more dominant and will continue to start the fights, when really they should learn "when attacking or growling there is no benifit/easy way out of it and you both have to put up with each other in a nice calm manner, growling and fighting does you no good"
Therefore you control the situation not the dog who starts the fight.

I posted and asked you did you think it was worth putting them through this as you seemed to have harmony and now upheavel.
But whilst on the subject responsibility is on every breeder to ensure the breed is free from heditary diseases its our duty to test breeding dogs to erradicate faulty genes

4 gorgeous pups born 06/06/11... will post pics soon.

We need photos!!!!

Congratulations! Can't wait to see the pics - boys or girls, what colours etc, etc!!!!

3 males 1 female.

Nature is amazing, first time and no one to tell her what to do, just instinct!!!!, she is such a good mother. she handled it very well.

Aw, that's good!

Any pics? Just love pics of young pups!!!

Caryll wrote:Aw, that's good!

Any pics? Just love pics of young pups!!!

Ditto !!

Congratulations! As the others have asked, please postpics! soon!!!! Also, how the parents getting along, have they settled down, or is mom still not liking dad too much?

must see pups pics

Hi guys, ok, finally posted pics in the appropriate section.

unfortunately Sprocket is still being a bitch... geddit, a 'bitch'!! lol, I kill myself.

she does seem to be slowly getting back to her old self though, I think i will wait until the pups are mobile to put them together.

peace has finally come!!!! they are finally together again.

yay!!!!! x