so truee!!!

 

you like mrs janey?

Agree!

agree too!

agree!

Crikey, I couldn't agree more  

 Me too!

Totally agree

Nah!  

Sorry Caryll, I don't usually condone violence, but a few more smacked bums might have saved us from the plague of feral children.  

Never did me any harm  my mum still just needs to give me 'the look' and I know I've stepped out of line

Violence breeds violence.

doing nothing or giving people to many right breed violence. just look are some estates around the uk you can see the damage it's doing.

Yes, but hitting a child makes it think that the answer to anything it doesn't like is to hit out.

Violence is not the answer, especially as there are some people who don't know the difference between a smack and a beating/abuse. There are some very sick sadists out there who enjoy beating children.

but doing nothing make kid think they can go around stabbing other kids or adults, raping girls, drug dealing, mugging old people i could go on

Gotta say it never did me any harm, used to run away from my dad and lock myself in the bath room......he never actually hit me cause I would stay in there forever  

A lot of people aren't even scared of the police never mind parents!

Steve wrote:but doing nothing make kid think they can go around stabbing other kids or adults, raping girls, drug dealing, mugging old people i could go on

I totally agree - but hitting them isn't the answer. If everybody just gave their kids a quick smack on the bum or across their legs then I wouldn't be quite so against it, but if you allow one person to do it you have to allow everybody to do it, and that includes the sadistic & the peverts who actually enjoy it!

Violence may well breed violence but the threat of more superior violence in retaliation to your violence makes you think twice.... worked for me anyway with my dad and his big stick. Im prob most least violent person you will ever meet despite looking like something off britains most wanted lol. I pick spiders out of the bath before I shower and guide flies, wasps, bees etc out the window rather that killing them...yeah okay im soft in head lol

Have to agree with Caryll on this one ... while not all smacking is abusive, obedience through pain or fear does not necessarily breed respect.

I have never smacked my own children and they are well aware of what constitutes appropriate behaviour and respect.

Consistent rules, guidelines and consequences - the same things they will need to learn to live with in an adult world - are what children really need.

Nathan wrote:Violence may well breed violence but the threat of more superior violence in retaliation to your violence makes you think twice....

But with some people the threat of violence makes them hit out first, and harder! Get your retaliation in first.

Plus, as I said, the perverts/sadists just enjoy it, and smaking to them is just a precursor to beatings/abuse.

I don't have the answer, I wish I did. But I do know that violence isn't it.

I have smacked on occasions though it is a real last resort that I then punish myself over and Jen knows if it came to that then it was really bad , not about fear , more about realisation . But I grew up with a father that 1 day thought I was too big for a smack so a punch was the next step , I floored him out of lack of mutual disrespect and he never did it again  

That's what I mean, Dave. It doesn't teach respect, just generates fear - and people have a habit of overcoming fear.

Caryll wrote:That's what I mean, Dave. It doesn't teach respect, just generates fear - and people have a habit of overcoming fear.

Like I say Caryll I do agree with you in some respects but it is about knowing limits , I would never criticise anyone for smacking and some of the stuff lately like checkout operators at supermarkets getting customers arrested over such things is pretty ridiculous . Like corporal punishment if a parent objects then fine but as parents we should be allowed to dictate how our children are disciplined . I got the cane once at school at the age of 11 , I never got it again .

But as you point out it is where to draw the line between discipline and violence this is the issue I think

I agree Dave that every parent has the right to choose how they raise/discipline their children .. there is too much smacking and too little of anything else happening though.
And the way smacking is used is way out of whack with a lot of parents (smacking out of anger/frustration teaches children to do the same ... and when they get in trouble for not being allowed to do what they want, or when they get smacked, what are they? It's a cycle ....)

That's another thing I think is totally wrong - teachers using the cane/slipper etc.

I didn't go to a bad school, but there were a couple of teachers who used the cane on a regular basis for really nothing at all, other than sadistic pleasure in hitting children. But back then you couldn't do anything about it bcause it was allowed. Nobody respected those teachers, and very few kids did well under them because they didn't work well under the threat and fear of violence.

Yes, I think some people go too far when they see a parent give a child a quick tap on the backside or across their legs (as long as it isn't too hard), but where do you draw the line? Who says what is or isn't acceptable?

Absolutely, Dave - the line between discipline and violence can be a thin one. And sometimes discipline (particularly for boys I'm sorry to say) needs to be more than a talking to about rights and wrongs.

Lynda wrote:Absolutely, Dave - the line between discipline and violence can be a thin one.  And sometimes discipline (particularly for boys I'm sorry to say) needs to be more than a talking to about rights and wrongs.

But this can be very subjective. What I would consider a smack, somebody else would consider a pat. What I would consider a beating, somebody else would consider a bit of a tap!

Who draws the line between discipline & violence? How would you define a smack? How would you say what force is behind that smack?

Do you have laws that state what is considered to be lawful smacking and what is not?

Caryll wrote:That's another thing I think is totally wrong - teachers using the cane/slipper etc.

I didn't go to a bad school, but there were a couple of teachers who used the cane on a regular basis for really nothing at all, other than sadistic pleasure in hitting children. But back then you couldn't do anything about it bcause it was allowed. Nobody respected those teachers, and very few kids did well under them because they didn't work well under the threat and fear of violence.

Yes, I think some people go too far when they see a parent give a child a quick tap on the backside or across their legs (as long as it isn't too hard), but where do you draw the line? Who says what is or isn't acceptable?

There were teachers in mine and my brothers era that were notorious for being the worst ones to get it off . In my brothers years stranely enouht the worst was a woman teacher who used the "cat o nine tails" I think it was called . These were the professional discipliners .
However going back to the respect thing , one of my teachers who was known to be the best caner in the school did it rarely but very precisely and I was on the good side of him ( I learnt my lesson young remember) and he was probably the best teacher I ever had. Became a next door neighbour of mine in future years and a very good next door neighbour and drinking buddy and also had lots and lots of time for the kids out of hours ( in a good way ) I also know lots of lads from my town that were friends with him in later life that would openly laugh about their misdeeds at his hands at school and also admit that it was this kind of stuff that developed their respect for the world and in some ways made them a better person when they left school helping them be educated on their way to being normal people rather than your average thug on the way to borstal

"Yes, I think some people go too far when they see a parent give a child a quick tap on the backside or across their legs (as long as it isn't too hard), but where do you draw the line? Who says what is or isn't acceptable?"

I think the difference between physical discipline and physical violence is whether the child is "damaged". A smack shouldn't cause more than a temporary sting. Anything more is violence.

I'm with you Caryll.

Caryll wrote:

Steve wrote:but doing nothing make kid think they can go around stabbing other kids or adults, raping girls, drug dealing, mugging old people i could go on

I totally agree - but hitting them isn't the answer. If everybody just gave their kids a quick smack on the bum or across their legs then I wouldn't be quite so against it, but if you allow one person to do it you have to allow everybody to do it, and that includes the sadistic & the peverts who actually enjoy it!

but what we doing now isn't the answer... i think at some point they going be huge changes in the uk even the police thinks this also. becasue we are nearly at an breaking point where things has to change.

on that nottingham police show on channel 4 last year they said uk goverments has been doing some type of social experiment which been failing the uk public for the past 50 years which at some point will fail and there will be mayhem.

we have seen signs of this with last summer riots with police station getting blow up

People are no longer scared of the police! Why is this?!

As said a few taps never did me any harm. I totally respect my parents for the way they have brought me up.

I'm 21, self employed, my own home, I don't really drink, I was naughty and got really drunk at 15 over the park.. I only ever did it the once because did I sure as hell suffer for it!!

I'm not out causing trouble with whoever and wherever because she always knew where I was and who with. I'd * myself if I had a running with the police. I'd rather have them on my side than arresting me!!

I put this down to my upbringing.. Where's the problem?? I'm sure my mum is more proud of me the way I have turned out than some of my peers

Thank you Louise for your input.

It would be very interesting to hear from any more of our members aged from , let's say early teens to about 30 ish, to learn what you think?
- what discipline (not only physical) did you get from your parents?
- how did it affect you, did you "amend your ways" or did you rebel?
- how are you/will you bring up your own children with regards to social behaviour?

Well i'll put my experience seeing as though your interested Lynda

I am the oldest of 3 and I was bought up very differently to my brother and sister. I was bought up very strictly was slapped for any 'little' thing, I was never given pocket money and wasn't allowed out with friends even at the age of 16+. My parents split up when i was 5 so this was all by my mum who remarried and had 2 more kids.

Now they were bought up and left to do what they want, never had a slap, 'babied' particularly my sister who is the youngest, my mum is blind to their behaviour, and the fact my sister is massively overweight, and it's everyone elses fault not Leahs.

Now I at 23 have my own house with my OH who we have been together forever now, have my own car, full time job, run my own little business, have lots and lots of qualifications, all of which i'm proud of.

Now those to both dropped out of school, neither have qualifications, neither have a job, both still live at home and plan to for a long, both have had pregnancy scares, multiple times (my sister is only 16) neither have career or any sort of plans, and my brother has nearly killed himself with drink a few times (he's 21).

I had a hard upbringing, but i was never afraid of my mum, neither am afraid of the police or anything really, I'm a very self confident person, who doesn't give a sh*t what others think of me

Now compare my strict upbringing to their well do what you want up bringing, and make your own mind up.

No i see nothing wrong with a slap on the bum for bad behaviour and my kids will get one, but they will also be allowed the social life and be encouraged to strive to do their best and have friends, all of which my mum didn't want for me.

And mine Lynda ..

As a child it was not considered acceptable to speak back or cuss and respect for parents, elders and others was expected at all times. If I was told to do something it was expected that it would be done without reminders. I do not ever recall being told what the consequence was of not following these rules, however knowing that there was a consequence was enough to keep to the rules most of the time.

Once when I was 16 I stood up in my fathers face and spoke (yelled) terribly at him .. he slapped me and I never did it again. Besides a smack on the bottom for setting a fire to keep warm while under the wooden woolshed, this was the only physical punishment I ever received in my life.

I had the usual teenage wayward period .... dated the 'older bad guy' and didn't tell my parents - they knew of course .. my mother visited myself, him and friends while we were 'hanging out' and invited him to dinner at our house. I went to a party I wasn't supposed to be at and had to call my parents for help when the person who drove me got drunk .... my father arrived at 1am, when I got in the car he calmly and nicely asked was I okay, I said yes and that was all he said for the hour long drive home (no grounding, no lecture ever occurred ...  it wasn't needed, I knew I had done wrong and I didn't ask to go anywhere for a good while after).

I got married, had children, am a teacher, have a house, have no criminal record and function without the use of drugs.

With my own children the biggest rule is respect - respect for me,  others, yourselves, the rules of our family, society etc. I work on the premise of choices and consequences .... as much as I can I try to work on logical consequences, however there are obviously times that this isn't practical. I don't do smacking.

While I was incredibly strict with them when they were younger, now that they are teenagers there is more flexibility. The girls also now set their own consequences (punishment) in most cases.

While they are very much normal teenagers who definitely have their teenage moments, they both go to school, have good behavior reports and class grades, participate in rotary as junior volunteers (call bingo at our local aged care centre each week for example), do their chores and generally behave respectfully.

there a hell of parents who dont teach their kids what is right and wrong and they grow up and do the same and this problem is growing decade by decade we didn't have this type of problem on this scale when we had national service, in the future at some point in all countries that got rid of national service will have to bring something similar back it wont matter if some people wont like.  to get the soicaly in order  this will have to happen talking to kids/parent doesn't work this been proof in the UK under labour spend millions and millons for only for this problem to get worse.

Thank you for your interesting comments, Ella and Kell. Whilst not advocating a slap for "every little thing", I'll bet you never set another fire under a wooden shed did you Kell? And you both turned out exceptionally well.

I'd love to hear any comments from our younger male members. I'll admit right here that I feel I made mistakes in my own son's upbringing. In his younger years he had many "friends" (lads) of his own age who would not hesitate to do wrong if they thought they could get away with it. If the risk of getting caught and punished was great, then they wouldn't do it, but only because they didn't want to be punished, not because their moral sense prevented them from doing it.

Steve's point about National Service is interesting; I am old enough to just about remember when the louts in our village went off to do their bit, and as far as I remember they were more responsible adults when they'd finished their stint.

you can talk and talk some of these problem parents and kids and you wont get anywhere labour thought of this great idea where they will move problem family else where to try and help them but all what it has done is spread the problem.

My OH is obviously the same age as me, and was bought up solely by his dad, when his mum walked out on her 3 kids. His dad has been described by many people as 'a scary man when p*ssed off' and he was very strict on them and they all got a slap as kids.

My OH also sees nothing wrong with a slap for bad behaviour, very much the same mind set as me.

Thank you for your input, Ella's OH!

Steve wrote:there a hell of parents who dont teach their kids what is right and wrong and they grow up and do the same and this problem is growing decade by decade we didn't have this type of problem on this scale when we had national service, in the future at some point in all countries that got rid of national service will have to bring something similar back it wont matter if some people wont like.  to get the soicaly in order  this will have to happen talking to kids/parent doesn't work this been proof in the UK under labour spend millions and millons for only for this problem to get worse.

But this thread isn't about national service - it's about physical punishment. The parents who don't teach their kids right from wrong will probably also beat the crap out of them.

Kids who have been beaten grow up to beat their own kids, and their oh's.

How can you regulate the difference between a smack and a beating? Who will draw up the definitions? What qualifications will they have for doing so? To me, a 'smack' is one (maybe two at the most) strikes across the backside or the legs, but not hard enough to leave a mark. Shock tactics if you like. Anything harder, or any strike across the face or upper body is a beating.

But many will disagree with that, so where do you draw the line?

My other half would get battered if he stepped out of line too! So much so I'm petrified of the mother in law  
He too thinks there's nothing wrong with a tap from time to time when kids push the boundaries.
A few kids round our way could do with a slap where the bad language comes from!!

Never laid a finger on my kids and none of them act like diicks. Maybe their is another connection other than not smacking them that makes them turn out that way. Maybe it has more to do with talking and helping them to understand how to behave in society. Maybe teaching our children values, teaching them work ethic, treating others how we want to be treated, sticking up for vunable people and making them have self respect are more connected than a clip round the head

Caryll wrote:it's about physical punishment. The parents who don't teach their kids right from wrong will probably also beat the crap out of them.

I cant agree that in all form of life you going have an bad mum or bad dad that going to far and this is only an small % i'm talking problems families in council estates where a lot kids just not getting the proper care. how long can this go on far till something has to be done?

because you give the right to parent to smack their kids doesn't mean everyone is going turn into abusers and beat their kids everyday