She bit me, again!

First topic message reminder :

It seems we can have no fun whatsoever with Louby!

The first time she bit me was because i playfully ran away from her so she would chase me, i put a post on here about it, and was told she saw me as bait, so my fault and havent done it since.

We can't play fight with her as she gets too rough and starts getting bitey.

Her only friend in the world, my brothers dog, she decided she didnt like anymore and went for her.

Then this weekend, we though we would get the hosepipe out and play with her and hope it cools her down abit. She went crazy, was catching the water in her mouth, we werent blasting it out neither, was only a gentle stream of water. Then she was hiding behind me on the decking so my husband was hitting mwe with the water, at which point Louby jumped up and but my leg, hard. it hurt like hell. I have a massive bruise and she broke the skin abit too (not sure if i need a tetanus). I know she was just going for water, but its like she has no filter with her playing.

I seriously think she is just crackers. We can do nothing with her without us getting upset wth her cos she takes things too far. My husband isnt thrilled that we got her in the first place, and he just thinks i keep making up excuses for her.

I know its down to training but we found her as a stray, and its just not easy at all, any time.

However, on the upside, she did save my life on saturday, by killing the biggest spider in the world. x

Mrs McFisher wrote:Ignoring her really does not work, i think it gives her more of a challenge. This morning something got her excited while i was getting dressed for work, she started rabbit running all over the house then when she got to me she was jumping up and biting me, i was semi dressed at this point. she did it a couple of times then i closed the door on her so she couldnt get in to the bedroom. But she was in such an excited state that she would have hurt me.

Is there aroom where you can put her when she does this? Somewhere she can't hurt herself (or your possessions) until she calms down? Remind me what her exercise regime is - I could probably look back through the posts, but......... 

Mrs McFisher wrote:oh and an update on our 2nd training class last friday - not much better than the week before.
she was barking at the other dogs again, so we were feeding her sausages to keep her looking at me, rather than the dogs to then bark at them.
Then the big white dog that she took a dislike to last week came in late, this set one of the other dogs off barking, which made lou start barking, but then she started going off on one, barking really aggressively, so we ended up on the stage out of the way. so once again we didnt get to join in the session.
waste of money much?

How many dogs are in the class? It sounds as though the people running the class don't have much of an idea how to control the situation.

When i shut the door on her she did calm down, but she could have really hurt me if i hadnt been alert to her. She gets a 45 min walk on a morning, i take her out as soon as i get up, i get ready for work afterwards, so she did her rabbit runnign after she had been out. Her walk does consist of about 15 mins off lead (if no one is around) so she gets a nice little run in too. She is on a flexi lead the rest of the time so she has wee bit of freedom, ie, not having to walk beside me the whole time. Then when we get back, she is playing in the garden and with her toys..

There are about 8 or 9 dogs in the class. The ladies are lovely who take the class - Tailwaggers in Headingley and Harrogate. I did think afterwards that they dont even try to introduce back in to the group after a certain amount of time. Both weeks we were totally excluded from the session, we were in the same room but not joining in.

Looking at their site, the trainers all have qualifications, but there's nowhere that states exactly how the classes are run, or what sort of training they provide. Which trainers do you have at Headingly (is that the St. Columba's one?)?

Exclusion helps to calm a dog down, but permanent exclusion does nothing at all! I don't suppose there are any other classes near you?

This is something that might be useful to you....

http://www.vetspec.co.uk/shop/vetspec-calm-focused-200g/

If you enter the code DW-13 at checkout before 30th September you can get the 200g tub for half price! I've ordered some for Dempsey (not that he needs calming down) in the hope that it'll help his focus!

Yes its the St Columba class. We have had Carol Lewis, Jennie Wall (she's the lady that sat with us on friday on the stage. She just talked to us and about Lou and what we can do to help things etc) & Cathy Paterson.
From what i have seen the last 2 weeks, which isnt much, they have been having some dogs in the middle of the room as stooge dogs, and the others then have to walk passed with their dos whilst giving them a treat to distract them from the dogs in the middle, making your dog look at you rather than the dogs.

I have paid for a 6 week course, so we shall see how the rest of the weeks go...But if the same happens again this week then i shall say something. They are there to help all the dogs, not just the well behaved ones. Excluding us for the comfort of everyone else isnt fair, and they may aswell give us our money back.

Is the vetspec a powder or tablet? cant really see from the info? It would be amazing if this worked.

Thank you for your help & advice Caryll xx

It's a powder that's sprinkled onto food. I think they sugest that you dampen the food a little to make the powder 'stick'. I can't vouch for it as I haven't tried it yet, but as it's got a known producer of Seratonin (the thing that makes them calm!) it's worth a try!

As far as the trainers go, none of those three actually have any training qualifications at all, other than doing a course with the Tailwaggers themselves! I wouldn't be particularly happy with them, to be honest.

I have just ordered the vetspec stuff, half price too, thank you for that. Fingers crossed it works.

Well i shall see how it goes this week, but if they exclude us again then i shall say something, i was hoping that this would be good then we can carry on going on to the next level classes. But if it is no good then we shall look elsewhere. Its the only way i think that we can make her a good dog and me a good handler. I would love to be able to get her into agility or flyball, something that gets her running around & is enjoyable for us both. I dont think it will be enough for her to be just walking morning and night every day (even though we mix it up and go to different places).

Have you thought about getting her some agility equipmeny for your garden? Weave poles, tunnels, hurdles? She'd thoroughly enjoy it, but more importantly you'll get to interract with her in a fun way, that doesn't involve her jumping & biting at you! 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/280-9006028-6323266?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=agility+equipment

That would be great but we only have a front yard, its enclosed but really not big at all for anything like that. She cnt even play with ehr boomer ball in the garden as its has steps up and down, meaning its not all one level.

That's a shame. You could always just get the weave poles/hurdles, which could be put up & taken down quickly & easily & don't take up much space?

Had a fab walk this morning - theres a football over the road from our house, its all fenced off and was great for taking Lou in off the lead. But a few months they put a lock on the gate to stop dogs going on. This morning i noticed it wasnt locked so i took Lou on there, with 2 balls (she doesnt give back once its been thrown for her), i threw one ball, then she was coming back, dropping that ball for when i threw the 2nd ball, she kept doing it which was brillient and she had the best run she has had in ages, especially as it was for a nice amount of time, rather then 5-10 mins here and there on the park when no one is around.

Great fun - did she behave herself?

She did, although i do have to be on my toes with her, have to give her commands all the time when she gets back to me, like sit and wait, as she will excitedly jump up for the ball and try to take it out of my hands, whereby she wont know what she is grabbing with that big old mouth of hers!
I think it could be a game we could play on the park when its quiet, as she is too interested in the game rather than whats going on around her. so she isnt likely to run too far in front...xx

Hi Caryll,
The vetspec stuff has arrived in the post today.
Is it something i can use just when we need to, ie, when we are going training? or do i need to use it every day?
Do you know how long it takes to work? Just thinking that if we use it tomorrow for training, will it be in her system to work?
Sorry about all the questions, there isnt enough info on the tub.
Thank you for all your help so far...x

I haven't used it yet (hasn't arrived!), but I think it's a daily thing. One of the reviews I read said that they noticed a difference within a couple of days, so theres no harm trying it out now!

There is loads of great information and recommendations above so I don't need to add much there. I would like to add that I went through the exact same scenario as you did in puppy class with Bacon except he could not even be tempted to behave with the best treats available!

We were told Bacon could no longer attend the group lessons as he was beginning to get a bit aggressive and excited with certain dogs. I didn't necessarily agree that removing him was the answer, but I do understand he was keeping the WHOLE class from moving forward! We took a step back, did private lessons, and eased him into socialization with one on one playdates and walks when possible.

The point is that I know what you must be feeling. Scared that your dog is a monster, can't be trusted around other dogs, etc... I know because that's how I felt. Well, we have come a long way since then and just wanted to tell you to hang in there. Your dog will come around if you put in the time with her. Just don't shy away from socialization, keep trying and do what you can.

Caryll, I have used that stuff today, see how it goes. Thanks x

Nor Cal - We are back at training tonight, if they exclude us again then i will be asking for my money back. I understand that thw whole class cant be disrupted, but what sort of training class only allows well behaved dogs?
I do let Lou meet any dogs we come across on our walks, let her have a sniff etc, then we cary on walking - She has played off lead with a boxer a couple of times down on the park, which was lovely to see.
I shall let you know how we get on tonight. Thanks x

I think you're right. If they don't know how to deal with a barker, then they're not much use as trainers!

Hi, an update on her training class - Well I think it was much better. For a start I gave her the calming stuff, think this may have worked!?! Then when we got to the class, the trainer who owns Tailwaggers was taking the class. Louby did her usual barking and the other trainer ladies were making moves to put us back on the stage, but the boss lady said no, to keep us down on the main floor with the rest of the dogs, we were a bit away from the others, but Lou was still able to see everything that was going on, rather than be out of the way.
They taught us to do 'watch', where we have a treat in one hand, held out, then when Lou looks at me and not the hand with the treat, we can feed her a treat. This should teach her to know to watch us as a distraction. Then they taught us 'touch', where you hold a hand at her eye level but a bit to the side, when she touches your hand with her nose, she gets a treat.. you then move your hand around abit, changing position. Hopefully these things will stimulate her too.]
So i felt i didnt need to say anything as i felt we were more included.

That sounds a bit more promising, but only if the same trainer's there ext time. If it does happen again, maybe you could phone her?

Went for Louby's 4th training class on Friday, and was much better again, there was the initial barking when we went in for the first 5 mins, then she seemed to calm down pretty quickly, with the odd bark thrown in. we were near the other dogs but not too close, we are still not really joining the class though, but its getting her used to the other dogs being around.
I mentioned to the trainer about Lou weeing her bed at night, she said it was unusual for a dog to mess in their own bed and that she may need to be looked at by a vet. She said that although she is maybe too young, she could have a problem where when she relaxes her bladder area does too, and that's why she wees, but she said its really older dogs that have this. What do you think? xx