Still wavering

I have taken the advice on this forum and paid attention to the various articles on the net about the effects of early neutering on males, and have so far seen no reason why it should be done to Kuchar (now 14 months) and a great many reason why it shouldn't.

As I have bragged in another recent post Kuchar is very very friendly. But only 2 hours ago, something happened that has made me waver in my resolve. Kuch was playing off lead with his Patterdale friend and a white Staffy bitch. A young man approached with his KC spaniel, and let him off the lead. Kuchar said hello to the spaniel and immediately started humping him. He's never humped any dog before (or indeed anything else) - I dragged him off and said as much. KC chappy walked his dog away and the remaining 3 played together as before then suddenly Kuchar set off like lightening towards the spaniel. I ran to get him, meanwhile KC chap had picked his dog up and was kicking and swearing at Kuchar and shouting that he should be on the lead if he couldn't control himself.

I originally started writing this in response to the post where someone's 9 month old pup is showing signs of aggression and then said that the pup was getting neutered soon. then I realised that my response is inappropiate to that thread, so I moved it here as to be quite honest I was upset and still am - I hate being shouted at and am more likely to burst into tears than shout back. I did apologise to the KC chappy and if I run across him again I will apologise for frightening him and explain more fully (if I'm allowed to).

So, once again I am wondering whether to neuter - this is first sign of dominance that Kuchar has ever shown.

I feel better for getting this off my chest - thank you for listening!

i dont think i would ever neuter a male i can understand getting female spade because the blood get everywhere when they in season

Personally I think entire dogs should be kept on lead, had an awful experience with one when Moo was in season.

Also responded to the mentioned message that a friend who had problems with aggression having the op helped, I have a friend who's dog mounted everything, the only thing that stopped it was neutering.

Again not classed as a quick fix, but sometimes it is Xx

I totally agree with both Steve and Janey. I would never neuter a male, but I have had females spayed.

However, Logan is never off lead for obvious reasons.

Dominance isn't the same as aggression. You can put him back on the lead and walk him away, distract him, if he starts doing anything you don't like. Neutering doesn't necessarily cure these issues (I don't need to tell you that, you've done the research so you know that it might help, might not make a difference, or might make things worse). Kuchar's getting older, his personality may change a bit, but you don't want to make any decisions based on a bad experience. You can manage most behaviours without having to feel like your last resort is to neuter.

I don't see why unneutered dogs should be kept on the lead either. All owners have to be responsible, but doesn't seem fair that unless you neuter your dog, they should never be off the lead 'in case' there's ever a female in season around you. But I know if there's a bad experience with it, I guess it'd make you feel that way.

Still, calm down a bit before you think more on it

Yes I agree about females Steve - I held out as long as possible before spaying my bitches, despite the mess (and this before the special knickers became available) - it was the constant phantom pregnancies that decided me with them.

I really don't want to put Kuchar through this .... it's the humping of this little dog tonight and the chasing after him (I've got a feeling that the experience of dominance excited him, he's never been "dominant" before) that worried me.

To be honest, if the KC's owner had been a bit more understanding - dogs will be dogs after all and Kuchar has been humped by many dogs of both sexes - and hadn't shouted at me, I might be a bit calmer about the experience.

Well, this is the Rant and Rave section, and I've let off a bit of worry to you and feel better about it, thank you!

I have the same thing with vinnie, but on a much smaller scale. So when on walks I make sure my eyes are always one step ahead of his and clip him on the lead, thus said I wondered at the time if neutering would help but decided not to in the end, after much advice for and against. I am glad I decided not too as my heart was telling me no whilst my head Yes. So I went with the heart.

The only thing guaranteed to stop a dog humping is training. Castration may or may not have an effect, but it's just as likely to have an adverse effect. It's a bit of a lottery.

I've never allowed Dempsey to hump anyone or any dog - if he tries he gets put straight on the lead if we're outside, or gets sent out of the room if it's indoors. I haven't seen him hump a human or dog for over 2 years now - maybe longer.

After ready everything since i been hear im sort of in the
Middle i haven't really got an opinion, i have had tyke snipped and do not regret it. I think you should just take all advice and then make you own judgement and what you feel is best for you both

Thank you everyone and sorry for the delay in replying - I'm certainly not going to make any irreversible decisions tonight whilst I'm feeling fragile.

Janey's comment "I have a friend who's dog mounted everything, the only thing that stopped it was neutering" has made me think - Kuchar hasn't mounted anything until today - he's always been most submissive to other dogs - but having tasted the delights of dominance today with this spaniel, I can't help worrying that he will try his luck with other dogs. I will wait and see before trying anything drastic!

Tara, I know he wasn't being aggressive but the KC's owner obviously didn't see it that way. And unfortunately, if Kuchar is off the lead (which he isn't often, only when playing with his friends) he will chase after any dog to play with it and no distraction on earth will stop him. He's still very young and I am counting on his growing maturity to stop his headstrong behaviour (he is showing some signs of this, he'll come back to me when called when on the long lead, but if he's off the lead (and this is only when he's playing with trusted friends) - deafness strikes!

I'm with you Tara that entire dogs should not necessarily be kept on the lead forever. If that is the general opinion, then I would get Kuchar chopped tomorrow. Bitches haven't been a problem for my boy - yet!

To be honest, Lynda, you have me a bit worried now on what the future holds Loki's very submissive and relaxed, he lets massive, dominant dogs hump him and he doesn't care in the slightest. But obviously his temperament might change. I suppose it's something to always keep in mind that as your dog grows, they may change in their reactions to other dogs. But for all you know, it might have been a one-off, testing the waters a bit, so to speak, so definitely nothing to get too worried about, certainly not for the time being

like i've said many times on here, my Chance IS neutered and is the most dominant dog i've ever ever known, no not a massive humper but will if he feels like it.

So the loss of his balls has done and IMO made his personality much worse in terms of aggression, dominance etc

No i will never neuter a male unless medically they need it

Thank you so much everyone.

I'm sorry to worry you Tara, this has just been my experience and may not be yours, hopefully. Kuchar is also very submissive - until today! And he wasn't aggressive - just dominating in the most embarrassing way, and for the first time ever.

Sod's law made that the one dog in the universe who was even more submissive than Kuchar would be owned by someone who evidently doesn't understand dog behaviour (his spaniel wasn't bothered, I'll bet he's used to being dominated). It was no big deal, no aggression was involved (at least between the dogs!). The verbals did upset me I'll admit.

BTW you do no him humping may have NOTHING to do with being dominant. Harvey for example does it out of pure over excitement

Thanks Ella, it did cross my mind because Kuchar was was very excited.

He's just never done it before (the humping), but although it surprised me it didn't bother me as much as it did the spaniel's owner, who went berserk.

Harvey is a very very submissive dog always has been but he has humped other dogs on the head, * whatever but he does it over the excitement over seeing a new dog particually

Thank you again Ella. I'm afraid that Kuchar's humping was at the back end, tackle out as well!

I feel fairly sure that it was over-excitement as you say. But a first for Kuchar.

As I said, I am not rushing into any irreversible decisions - I've just been rattled, not only by Kuchar's unexpected behaviour but also (and maybe especially) by the hostile reaction of the spaniel's owner.

haha yer harvey is known to have his tackle out

Harv has humped or tried to a few dogs but once you know the signs they are going to do it you can remove them and let them calm down.

Harv is definitely not losing his balls over the occasional hump haha

Thank you Ella, you are a calming influence.

I do know it's not the end of the world, it was just this guy's reaction. He was scared that his little spaniel would be humped to death, and so he picked him up. Kuchar then proceeded to jump up at the spaniel (still wanting to play) and then all hell let loose (human verbals)

I absolutely HATE all hell letting loose, I can deal with the dogs but not with human verbals.

Lynda wrote:Thank you Ella, you are a calming influence.

I do know it's not the end of the world, it was just this guy's reaction. He was scared that his little spaniel would be humped to death, and so he picked him up. Kuchar then proceeded to jump up at the spaniel (still wanting to play) and then all hell let loose (human verbals)

I absolutely HATE all hell letting loose, I can deal with the dogs but not with human verbals.

thanks hope it didn't sound patronising!

Yer some people massively overreact so i wouldn't stress to much sounds like he was a right ar*e!

Lynda wrote:Thank you Ella, you are a calming influence.

I do know it's not the end of the world, it was just this guy's reaction. He was scared that his little spaniel would be humped to death, and so he picked him up. Kuchar then proceeded to jump up at the spaniel (still wanting to play) and then all hell let loose (human verbals)

I absolutely HATE all hell letting loose, I can deal with the dogs but not with human verbals.

I think the only thing you have to do is spot the telltale signs of him being about to hump. I'm not bothered by other people's reactions, but I am bothered about other dogs' reaction! Some do take great exception to being humped & it could start a fight (Dempsey's one of them - no way will he allow a dog to even attempt to get higher than him, let alone hump him!).

As Ella says, humping can be dominance, it can be excitement, it can be sexual if the other dog is a bitch or lives with a bitch that's been in season recently. It's rarely just because a dog still has his balls. Let's face it, even bitches hump!

Thanks Caryll, Ella - everyone. You've all made me feel much better and I'm calmer today, although dreading meeting Mr Spaniel again, but in a strange way looking for him because I hate ill-feeling and would like to make peace with him, if possible.