Would you have said anything?

I took my foster dog to the big local park today, which I believe is a lead-optional area.

I'd say, out of the 100 or so dogs I probably saw, about half were on-lead and half off-lead.

Anyway, there was a spaniel there, which was off-lead.

He decided to chase the geese, getting within feet of them on land and clearly had poor recall.

So, the geese ran into the water to swim away - quickly followed by the dog, which quickly found itself swimming in the middle of a large lake in close to freezing conditions while the geese powered away.

It got back to dry land about five minutes later after lots of calling from its handlers, and went to them.

I assumed, at that point, that they'd put the lead back on him, but no.

Off he went, around the perimeter of the lake again, back to where the geese had congregated, and back into the water.

About an hour later, after a long walk with my foster, and a long way away from where the geese were, the spaniel came rushing around a corner, off-lead again, and made a bee-line for my foster, which was muzzled and on-lead.

The handlers did very little to get their dog away from mine, despite me shouting at them to call their dog off.

Anyway, I'd had enough by this point so let rip about keeping their dog on a lead. Their reaction was to simply look bemused - like I was suggesting something odd.

But the way I saw it:
1) the geese were getting pestered.
2) their dog could have drowned.
3) my dog was getting pestered.

Would you have said anything and if so, what?

Thanks.

it would be a tad annoying I think Keith

Very diplomatic, Dave.

The way I saw it, dogs shouldn't be pestering wildlife.

Maybe I'm over-reacting though? I did let a bit of a gob-full off.

yes i know i would and my wife has already many times. We take Miley to the foreshore not far away and she is on lead and has been pestered by many dogs with couldnt care less owners. Not good at all

I would have yes, its illegal to let a dog bother animals and the poor thing must have been frozen.

Hayley wrote:I would have yes, its illegal to let a dog bother animals and the poor thing must have been frozen.

Ah, I didn't know this.
I thought the law only actually applied in Wales and Scotland at the moment.
Thanks.

Good on ya ! Some ppl don't think do they.

I'd be mortified if one of mine went after wildlife or pestered another dog, it's just not the done thing. Ppl like that need a wakeup call !

Well they should be in control of their dog, lead or not. My last dog was a JR and was nervous around other dogs and was attacked by two spanels off the lead. I kicked out at them to get them away from her afterwhich the owner and her teenage son suddenly became concerned. I tried to explain that their dogs were not under control but they really couldn't see it. They thought because they were in a park they had no obligation to control their dogs (I'm not in the habit of kicking dogs but it was two largish dogs against one JR) They were threatening to call the police and when I offered to wait for them they skulked off.
A dog not on a lead is as far as the law is concerned, not under control.
If I were you and had a dog muzzled and it was being attacked I would try to remove the muzzle rapidly. If your dog is on a lead and the other is not, your dog is under control whether it bites first or not. I wouldn't want Storm to get into a fight but if he was attacked I would want him to be able to defend himself. I'd be devastated if he got injured and in no way condone letting dogs fight.
Luckily Storms a lover not a fighter he will play with other dogs and even if they try and nip him he thinks it's a game and runs off hoping they'll chase him...
Geese can give a good peck but probably wouldn't be able to defend themselves against a dog attack, they cannot take off from dry land and need a good stretch of water to take off from. Storm swims in a local lake in the summer months with ducks and swans, he's inquisitive but as soon as a swan hisses at him he's off like a shot. He'll swim between groups of ducks to get his kong and shows no interest in them. I do get some dirty looks from the people fishing sometimes though

Oh, do squirrels count? He loves to chase a squirrel, but never gets anywhere near them. We don't have red squirrels down this part of the world and due to rarity of red squirrels I probably wouldn't let him chase them if we did.

When out with Rocky who is always kept on a lead, either a short lead or long training lead, my hubby and I are constantly asking people to put their dogs on the lead. Rocky is now very nervous of any dog that approaches him. He used to be OK with pretty much all dogs but after a few have gone into his face he is now very nervous again.

That dog should have been put on a lead after that performance as we would with our Staffords. We have a local nature reserve and a similar situation occurred, my bloke got a bit irate after a dog was chasing the little coots and moorhens and they owner was just letting it. Needless to say he was a lot less tactful than I would be ( built like brick * he is) and the bloke and his dog literally ran off the nature reserve!

kathytake2 wrote:When out with Rocky who is always kept on a lead, either a short lead or long training lead, my hubby and I are constantly asking people to put their dogs on the lead. Rocky is now very nervous of any dog that approaches him. He used to be OK with pretty much all dogs but after a few have gone into his face he is now very nervous again.

I understand why your asking other people to put their dogs on a lead but do you think this is fair for them, if they are walking their dog where it is acceptable to have dogs off of the lead? I trust Storm, and whilst he will approach other dogs it is either a quick sniff and a hello, or if the other dog is playful and he is feeling playful he has great fun and five times the exercise. If a dog snaps at him he runs away. If I'm approaching a german shepherd or boxer I'm a bit wary as he doesn't like all of them but doesn't attack them either. I have good recall over him when he is around other dogs. He's only ever as far away from me as I can throw his kong and tends to stick within 5 to 10 metres of me. If someone looks a bit wary I always let them know he is fine around other dogs. If he wasn't as good as this I would keep him on a lead wherever we went and if I go to a place where dogs are expected to be on a lead then I will put him on it. I would also keep him at a fair distance from other dogs that are kept on a lead if possible as in an open park some dogs are kept on a lead for a reason. There are of course the idiots who let unruly dogs off the lead with little or no control over them but these are fortunately a small minority. My last dog was a nervous JR but I wouldn't expect others to put their dogs on a lead because of it.

We only ask people to put their dog on the lead if it seems they are going to be in Rockys face or come running over to him, not just every loose dog we happen to come across.

Rocky is now very nervous of many dogs that approach him, which he used to be OK with. Sometimes people will ask us if they would like their dog to be put on the lead while the dogs say hello to each other. This is fine as then at least they are both under control.

Was Rocky attacked or did he just meet a few overbearing dogs? I know it's not very nice sometimes when they're nervous, my JR would run and hide behind me when chickens came towards her at a friends house, I did struggle not to laugh at that mind as she was very protective of the house with humans. Storms tail is always wagging when he approaches other people and their dogs and if they say hello to him his whole rear end wags, bum goes one way and his tail the other, he's sometimes too friendly and I'll call him to me if we're approaching someone sitting on a park bench else he'll more than likely jump up and sit next to them. I think I've been dead lucky with him but I do appreciate not everyone's going to enjoy his company as much as I do. I've had people pick up their dogs and a few weeks ago someone walked into a field I was in, the full length of a football pitch away, saw Storm and me and did an about turn and left. When I got to the exit they were waiting 50 meters away watching where I went, I almost went that way just to do her head in > It may have been that her dogs were nasty but more than likely they just believe what they read in the papers.

It's an interesting question, Andrew, as one train of thought is that dog aggression is almost like a contagious entity - your dog is fine, then a snappy dog gets in its face. Your dog learns from this that it needs a defence, and so the slippery slope into your dog becoming either nervous or pre-emptively aggressive begins.

I have no problem at all with off-lead dogs - my old boy Marley was a very large staffy and was always off lead in lead-optional places because he had an amazing recall and virtually no prey drive - one word was sufficient to stop him approaching other dogs - "here".

I've had close on a dozen fosters since he passed on, and I'd only have let two of those off lead as they also had amazing recall.

The problem comes for me when a dog is clearly not listening to its owner.

Rocky has been attacked twice by off lead dogs, the first time was by a GSD who's owner had no control over at all. We were walking in a local small wood Rocky on lead as usually GSD loose.

The second time his was attacked by a loose Staffy just outside our home.

When we approach dogs now (which we try to avoid anyway) he just cowers down and behaves very nervous. We now try to get him to sit so the other dog can just walk past us.

Does he have any play mates to give him his confidence back, Kathy?

Yes he does thankfully, he has a Doberman friend and a couple of spaniels that he gets on very well with.

iamajc wrote:

kathytake2 wrote:When out with Rocky who is always kept on a lead, either a short lead or long training lead, my hubby and I are constantly asking people to put their dogs on the lead. Rocky is now very nervous of any dog that approaches him. He used to be OK with pretty much all dogs but after a few have gone into his face he is now very nervous again.

I understand why your asking other people to put their dogs on a lead but do you think this is fair for them, if they are walking their dog where it is acceptable to have dogs off of the lead? I trust Storm, and whilst he will approach other dogs it is either a quick sniff and a hello, or if the other dog is playful and he is feeling playful he has great fun and five times the exercise. If a dog snaps at him he runs away. If I'm approaching a german shepherd or boxer I'm a bit wary as he doesn't like all of them but doesn't attack them either. I have good recall over him when he is around other dogs. He's only ever as far away from me as I can throw his kong and tends to stick within 5 to 10 metres of me. If someone looks a bit wary I always let them know he is fine around other dogs. If he wasn't as good as this I would keep him on a lead wherever we went and if I go to a place where dogs are expected to be on a lead then I will put him on it. I would also keep him at a fair distance from other dogs that are kept on a lead if possible as in an open park some dogs are kept on a lead for a reason. There are of course the idiots who let unruly dogs off the lead with little or no control over them but these are fortunately a small minority. My last dog was a nervous JR but I wouldn't expect others to put their dogs on a lead because of it.

Just wanted to add my two cents to this as it's something that I have had trouble with a lot also, IMO whether the dog is on or off lead, legally the owner has to have full control over it at all times. Full control to me, means not allowing your dog to run up to random dogs or people, and to come back whenever called. When I first adopted my dog she was very wary of other dogs and I researched on-lead places to walk her, I found a large cemetery that strictly said "dogs must be kept on a lead at all times" yet 9-10 dogs were off lead and running riot!! There are billions of places to let your dog off lead, yet this one place was still over run with badly behaved, untrained dogs! And even if it is an off-lead area, although you would assume that the dogs should be friendly they aren't always, and I think it's just good practice to speak to the owner before letting your dogs interact. I was in a car park a few weeks ago when and off lead husky, and two beagles all charged at Biscuit, who literally wet herself, and the owners were nowhere to be seen! Drives me mad But yeah, sorry for jumping in on the thread. Just find it very irritating!

Working Dog,
My first experience of Staffies was a friend who used to show them and as I couldn't have a dog at that time as I was 18 and still living at my parents house I offered to walk her, they were a little apprehensive and I was asked to be very careful as if she was involved in a fight then they would struggle to control her behaviour at shows. I could see the logic in that.
Storm has been attacked by a pit bull about 3 years ago, luckily was stood right next to them and got them apart quickly, Storm had been playing with the bitch that lived with him that was some type of american bulldog but not a pit, this hasn't had any noticeable effect on his behaviour around other dogs. He was a stray before I got him from a rescue centre. He doesn't like some GSD and some boxer type dogs he's fine with most of them but on 3 occassions he has barked very aggressively at them. I have been able to recall him but it has taken maximum volume... He is my second Staffie so I wouldn't consider myself an expert.

Kathy, that's very unpleasant and it's understandable why he's nervous. and if people can't control their dogs they shouldn't be off the lead. Hopefully Rocky will regain his confidence as I find that it's lovely to see Storm having fun with other dogs. I have had a few occassions where I've had to go and stand next to other owners and call Storm so they could catch their dogs, they were only playing but were going the opposite way.

Rachel, I think we all may have drifted off topic a bit, but I think it's all boiling down to responsible owners, and imo the most important command to teach a dog, which is recall.

iamajc wrote:Oh, do squirrels count? He loves to chase a squirrel, but never gets anywhere near them. We don't have red squirrels down this part of the world and due to rarity of red squirrels I probably wouldn't let him chase them if we did.

Squirrels don't count as they are classed as vermin.

This is an old hobby horse of mine. I cannot abide people who let their dogs charge over to others without so much as a by-your-leave. I've nothing against dogs being off lead as long as the owners don't let them disturb the wildlife & they keep away from me & Dempsey!

I think no dog should be allowed off the lead if their recall is bad (unless somewhere empty). The dog could run away, could run into an aggressive dog and get hurt, could end up in a dog fight and you'll have to deal with the consequences, etc. I think it's a recipe for disaster. Loki's recall is crap now, so he only gets to go off the lead when it's completely empty. But we have a long line now, so we'll be using that. Just makes things easier than to risk harm coming to your dog...or another dog for that matter.

Dempsey has poor recall, but very good "stay". I let him off lead as long as there are no dogs within about 50 yards. I can tell him to stay & I then catch up & put his lead on.

Well I've just given a lad a right mouth full, he had a young GSD and must have hit it 8-10 times in 50 meters with the looped end of the lead, the poor thing was petrified, and even though there was two of them I couldn't stop myself after following them for a little while, his excuse was that he was training him and he wasn't doing what he wanted. How do you expect a dog to wait at the kerb if you don't stop yourself??? The dog was cowering away from him constantly and I pointed this out to him but he didn't seem to think it was a bad Couldn't follow him and I think they would have realised what I was up to if I had.
It's been a struggle to write this without swearing but if you add an expletive before wit you'll get what I mean. If it was up to me he'd have the dog removed from his care asap.