cap for kids benifits

limiting the number of children in a family that should be supported on benefits.

good idea or not?

No. Nobody has the right to say how many children anyone can have - where does it stop? It could end up like China who make a woman have an abortion if she falls pregnant a second time.

Much better to crack down on benefit fraud & get the lazy bu*gers who don't want to work to do a day's work for a change!

i think you have you miss understand the topic...

the cap is for people who dont work and have kids after kids to get more money

I actually laughed at this on the news this morning - what a crock of ****.

I'm as against handing over my hard-earned in tax as the next person, but are we really going to starve families who operate like rabbit factories? In 2012?

Wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be illegal anyway.
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What I would like to see is every person who can work - ie is capable of workingbut is "on the dole" being made to do something for their benefits - not hard to turn out an army of graffiti cleaners, dog sh*t collectors, pavement sweepers, grass cutters, etc. That could then go towards lowering my ridiculously high council tax.

i'm for it if you cant afford kids then your shouldn't have any!! people should live off the state having kids after kids so they can get more money they wrong!!

What if you were earning loads, then had an accident and couldn't work and were then skint and relying on benefits.
You couldn't pop your seven kids back into the womb.

you take the rick! there young girls out that have kid so they dont work i read somewhere there about 1000s families who get £500 plus a week with free homes they never worked that not right something as to change.

Well, I can't work at the moment, and it's not out of laziness. Ever since I was a child, my only goal in life has been to be a vet, and I want nothing more than to continue with my education and get to where I wanna be. I don't have kids, but if I was older and had kids but still couldn't work, then what? I have to be denied my right to a family because of my personal situation? Even people who do it for the money shouldn't be forced not to. You can't just sterilise people you don't believe are OK to have kids. This isn't China or Nazi Germany. By all means, stop people from trying to sponge off the country because they're lazy, I completely agree with you there, far too many people are using that system to the point where it's almost impossible for genuine people to get help. But you can do that without taking away a person's rights.

there is 250,000 families in the uk who as more the 4 kids who hasn't never work do you keep supporting these families pay them more when they have 5/6 or say enough is enough we will support you having 2/3 kids but if you have more then you will have work... i think that fair!!

is it fair my sister works crazy hours for the police, only get £350 a week she would love to have more kids but she cant afford them a families on benefit with 4/5 kids will get over £500 a week that not be right

I'm against cut on benefits who really need it but things like this I'm totally for it

I'm in agreement as there's nothing gets more up my noses than these families with 6 or 7 or more kids , don't want to work , live on benefits and expect me to support them ( the typical Sun stories) However , it would be an extremely difficult thing to carry out as there are large families out there that can't get jobs , have a genuine health problem etc , unfortunately the previous "Sun" type famileies "Jeremy Kyle " types and the likes spoil it for them and they end up incorrectly labelled

I'm against any cuts on anybody who really need it but there a lot of people who should not be having kids if they are benefits. i think there should be a cap on it. there at least 7/8 families on my street who could work and they have 4 plus kids

My hubby and I dont have children simply because we cannot afford to have any.

Two years ago I accidentally got pregnant and did arrange for a termination, however due to the stress I had a miscarriage anyway (the stress was due to local youths thumping on our front door among other things).

When we got married we did want to start a family but we were placed in a one person flat which is small so we dont have room for any children anyway.

My hubby is disabled and I have a permanent injury to my back. I do not claim any benefit and I am currently unable to work.

Thankfully Rocky is here to keep us both from going insane

We've had similar discussions before & we'll never agree.

The benefits system is there for all. It's up to the government to get things in place to stop the cheats.

so you saying people who having 4/5/6 kids who never worked in their life not cheating the benefits?

No.

I'm saying that you can't prove they are having kids to buck the benefits system.

If the government would get off their lazy ar*es and tell the non-working claimants that if they don't do a job - any job - they'll lose their benefits there wouldn't be half the problems there are now & you'd find that they'd limit their own families because they had to go out to work!

why would you want 4/5/6s if you didn't have a very good job? it pretty clear to me why they having kids

kathytake2 wrote:My hubby and I dont have children simply because we cannot afford to have any.

Two years ago I accidentally got pregnant and did arrange for a termination, however due to the stress I had a miscarriage anyway (the stress was due to local youths thumping on our front door among other things).

When we got married we did want to start a family but we were placed in a one person flat which is small so we dont have room for any children anyway.

My hubby is disabled and I have a permanent injury to my back. I do not claim any benefit and I am currently unable to work.

Thankfully Rocky is here to keep us both from going insane

See you should start a new career with the employment services educating people that just because you can't or don't work doesn't mean you have to screw the system for every penny you can get and develop ways of making more money

Steve wrote:why would you want 4/5/6s if you didn't have a very good job? it pretty clear to me why they having kids

I'm not saying they're not screwing the system, but you can't prove it. Some people like having children. I'm not backing them, but I would certainly be against withdrawing funds just because a couple have more than 2 kids, or telling someone you mustn't have any more kids or we'll withdraw your benefits.

And lastly though I might get shot down in flames for it .......................
PERSONALLY !!!! I don't know a single family with more than 4 kids that aren't a bunch of workshy scroungers. I can say that with a conscience as my Dad's side of the family (sisters and brothers) had several that fitted into this category which I tend to just phrase as scumbags, knowing they could work but wouldn't and it was far easier to spit kids out and reap the benefits of bigger houses , bigger benefits etc

do you think it's right a hard working mum of 2 who get around £350 who would love more kids but cant afford it but a mum of 2 on benefits don't have these worries?

Steve wrote:do you think it's right a hard working mum of 2 who get around £350 who would love more kids but cant afford it but a mum of 2 on benefits don't have these worries?

Absolutely not !!

Steve wrote:do you think it's right a hard working mum of 2 who get around £350 who would love more kids but cant afford it but a mum of 2 on benefits don't have these worries?

You can't generalise.

There was a time when I had 2 young kids & both me & my oh were on the dole. Yes, we received benefits, but nowhere near the amounts that are bandied around by the press. We got barely enough to live and certainly not enough to make ends meet properly. But then we didn't cheat the system. We only took what we were legally entitled to.

And what about the ones who have several children & then, through no fault of their own, find themselves out of work? Should their children be taken away?

It's the ones that cheat the system that they should crack down on, not the ones that are claiming legally.

You can't get to the point where the state demands that you can only have so many children. We're not living in China.

I'm totally for it.. who would be demanding what it's be simple the government will pay for the care for parent and 3 kid if you decide to have more then you will have to get a job and help your self....

Steve wrote:I'm totally for it.. who would be demanding what it's be simple the government will pay for the care for parent and 3 kid if you decide to have more then you will have to get a job and help your self....

I agree that these people who are permanently on the dole should be made to get work - I've already said that. But what happens if someone who had a good job is laid off or is injured or ill & can't work & there are, say, 4 kids in the family? Are you saying "Tough, mate, you're getting nothing cause you've got 4 kids!"?

if anybody have 4 kids they will get support for 3 kids then they will have to use some of their saving or find part time work caryll we in a recession we cant look after everyone.... they choice to have 4 plus kids the tax payer didn't....

So you would punish a family because they had 4 kids when they were well off, but have fallen on hard times?

Forget the 'part time work' rubbish. As I said, the scroungers that are left alone to draw goodness knows how much money for loafing around (the ones who boat they've never done a day's work & never intend to!) should be made to sweep the streets. They're the ones that are costing the millions, not the people with a large family. They're the ones that are considered 'unemployable' by the job centres & are never penalised for not looking for work.

I really don't care i see it my self all the time young girl have 4/5 kids never work in their life getting pay more then my sister... clearly you don't see it or don't have this problem where you live...

It isn't all happening in Nottingham, Steve, it happens all over the place, I'm not saying it doesn't. But you can't have a law that penalises the decent, honest people just because there are others who work the system.

Get the layabouts to work & it'll save this country millions. Don't penalise the poor kids - it isn't their fault.

I'm on the fence on this one. There is a family at my kids school, they have 7 children, 8 dogs, 3 cats. All the animals are frequently popping out litters that they sell for money. They live in a huge council house, have got a pool in their back garden, nice car etc. Neither of them work, but they have so many luxuries. It drives me mad. But I also know families that are in genuine need of benefits and have large families. My husband and I have 3 children, and I would love to have one more. We aren't on benefits, and are very unlikely to be in the future. But if the worst should happen, and we find ourselves in need of it, I would hate to be penalized for having 3 or more children. Its a hard line to walk to figure out who is in genuine need and who just cannot be bothered and expects the state to pay for their lazy lifestyle.

I voted yes because we do see a huge rise in young mums with no partner and having babies I know circumstances can be different and shouldnt be labelled but we must set a president for the future of the country. The government is trying to decrease the deficit and we all must stand together.
When my kids were growing up I encouraged them to be the best people and earn a living and get on the property ladder as soon as they were comfortable my daughter did this and then had a unexpected pregnancy which meant she had to cut her hours at work to be a single mum, she pays a morgage and really struggles to shuffle money, time when a girl 2 doors away is in the same situation but gets free housing, free council tax and seems to be much better off than my daughter I bought my daughter things for the baby as she couldnt afford to buy anything this girl got a £500 maternity grant to spend on anything she needed and doesnt have to pay any back.
I think this country needs to get a grip on the whole of the benefits system and immigration take tough action to reduce unemployment and people claiming sick and use the savings in investment for the country there are too many people wanting something for nothing

i think there should be a benefit caps say about £350... there are 250,000 family with 4 and more kids who getting paid over £500 a week......

Its just not right in my eyes i bet more then 2/3 of them never worked in their life...

i would rather see these families off benefits then force people who cant work off benefits

gem wrote: The government is trying to decrease the deficit and we all must stand together.

I think this country needs to get a grip on the whole of the benefits system and immigration take tough action to reduce unemployment and people claiming sick and use the savings in investment for the country there are too many people wanting something for nothing

Not all claimants who are claiming sick are steaming the system! Some (most) genuinely can't work - would you have them starve? Many people claoming benefits with large families are also genuine - is it the children's fault? Should the kids go wothout because their parents can't get benefits?

This government is not trying to reduce the deficit, they are trying to make themselves look good before the next election.

Steve wrote:i think there should be a benefit caps say about £350... there are 250,000 family with 4 and more kids who getting paid over £500 a weeks......

Its just not right in my eyes i bet more then 2/3 of them never worked in their life...

i would rather see these families off benefits then force people who every cant work off benefits

I would also like to see families off benefits - but I'd like to see them told that they must take whatever job is available or lose their benefits, not just cut them out & hurt those who are genuine.

I think some of todays younger look at the job situation and think its easier to have kids to get housing and money. I know its dreadful out there when you leave school, college ect I do blame the parents my 3 had to make there way as a parent you always want better for your kids but you do have to encourage and support them in life in what they choose, having a child as a young girl doesnt have to mean that there isnt opertunity and a future. There are some terrible parents out there and I know Ive seen them who should never have kids they screw up the next generation and the cycle continues
A cap on benefits is a way to discourage it hopefully, there is a girl my way had 3 before she left school and now has 4 and is only 20 the 3 she had previous are all in the care system and she gets a great deal of help and resourses to help her keep the 4 she has now as they are high risk.Doesnt know any of the fathers she has had a child every year since the age of 14 if I was her mother her legs would be tied shut

But if you place a cap on benefits the genuine claimants would struggle to live! Why penalise the genuine, when all that is needed is a clamp down on cheats?

They won't do anything about the ones that won't work because it's easier to let it go! They are labelled as 'unemployable' and never get chased up about getting a job! It's the governments fault (all of them) and yet you want to penalise the decent people who are down on their luck!

with many wages too low and rents sky high, many people do work very hard long hours and still need a small amount of benefits to make ends meet, there are a lot more issues involved than just being lazy and popping out kids! I know some people are like that but then the innocent shouldn't be targeted because of these people. Not everyone is the same and you can't be insensitive to the genuine people just to punish the actual lazy people cos it's just not fair, the government does have a lot to work on to get the balance right but it's a bit low to just go judging and tie everyone on benefits with the same brush! it's more complicated than that so people shouldn't be judging everyone on benefits

laurenjuby89 wrote:with many wages too low and rents sky high, many people do work very hard long hours and still need a small amount of benefits to make ends meet, there are a lot more issues involved than just being lazy and popping out kids! I know some people are like that but then the innocent shouldn't be targeted because of these people. Not everyone is the same and you can't be insensitive to the genuine people just to punish the actual lazy people cos it's just not fair, the government does have a lot to work on to get the balance right but it's a bit low to just go judging and tie everyone on benefits with the same brush! it's more complicated than that so people shouldn't be judging everyone on benefits

Well said!

I have 2 kids my self and my hubby as another 4 with his ex wife so 6 kids altogether. He has worked bloody hard to support all the kids his whole life, working 50/60 hour weeks when building with his dad! I also have always worked at least 1 job normally 2 part time ones. He currently is facing redunduncy......does that make us bad people? We may have to rely on benefits for a while.......so shoot me!

blaze wrote:I have 2 kids my self and my hubby as another 4 with his ex wife so 6 kids altogether. He has worked bloody hard to support all the kids his whole life, working 50/60 hour weeks when building with his dad! I also have always worked at least 1 job normally 2 part time ones. He currently is facing redunduncy......does that make us bad people? We may have to rely on benefits for a while.......so shoot me!

See, that's what I mean! why should decent, hard working people who have a bit of bad luck get penalised?

we not talking about people who work we are talking about mums and dads that as never work in their life and have 4 plus kids getting over 500 a week benefits....

IMO if you cant afford 4 plus kids that your fault not the tax payer fault... I know many people would love more than 2/3 kids but they just cant afford too.

yes but what some people are trying to say is that capping benefits on number of children doesn't only penalise those people, it also penalises other people who have always worked and could afford the children they had but then have an accident or are temporarily out of work for some reason, and also some people do work hard but get pay cuts or have to get a new job unexpectedly with lower pay, and the rent in this country at the moment is too high with wages too low, so those people could suffer if they have 4+ children but if you want 4+ children and can afford them, then you should be able to have them without the worry that if something bad happens then you will be branded a scumbag, lose your home and your children will starve, there are lots more issues involved that need more thought than just capping benefits based on the number of children you have. Maybe you should focus on the high rents and low wages or another of the complex issues the government isn't working on properly, instead of being publicly opinionated when you haven't thought through this complex issue enough to see many other angles that some find offensive

I think having 4+ kids is to much for anybody and if you decide to go for that many you shouldn't expect when time get hard to get £500 plus a week for the next 20 years.

you cant make one rule one people and other one for someone else, the rules as to be for all... when you try to weed out the bad to good one the cost would be crazy

Steve, you are once again taking a simplistic view of a complex subject.

What right do you have to say that nobody can afford 4 children or more? There are people who love kids & want a large family, who have good income & can afford those kids. Then something happens - an injury or illness that forces the main wage earner out of work - what do they do then? Do you want the kids to go into care, thereby placing an intolerable strain on social services? And who says it's going to be for 20+ years?

There are people whose religion forbids them to use contraception (I'm one of them, and yes, I went against my religion so that I wouldn't have any more), must they go against their beliefs?

I'm not saying that every lazy sod who doesn't want to work has the right to a huge family to bleed the benefits system dry - those people should be orced to take jobs or lose their benefits - but you can't have two laws for the same thing, and you can't discriminate against those who are genuine.

Caryll it's call live by your means and if you take the risk of having more of anything you cant expect to the government to bail you out!

there should be a 300/380 cap on any family benefits if you need more then you have to do some community. the day of this country giving huge amount of money to families are just about over.

Steve wrote:you cant make one rule one people and other one for someone else, the rules as to be for all... when you try to weed out the bad to good one the cost would be crazy

Steve wrote:Caryll it's call live by your means and if you take the risk of having more of anything you cant expect to the government to bail you out!

there should be a 300/380 cap on any family benefits if you need more then you have to do some community. the day of this country giving huge amount of money to families are just about over.

So would condemn some good, previously hard working, people to having to put their children in care (therefore causing more expense to the country) in order to stop the steamers?

That is so wrong on so many levels, but as usual we will have to agree to disagree. This is something we can never see eye to eye on - our politics are way too far apart.

c

Steve wrote:I think having 4+ kids is to much for anybody and if you decide to go for that many you shouldn't expect when time get hard to get £500 plus a week for the next 20 years.

but some people need it temporarily due to an accident or something, it really isn't up to you to judge if four kids is too much for other people, that's a shallow thing to say and not really a valid point, there are many kinds of families now days, and what about people that have to get a divorce then re-married, that can create more children than the average. Some people are way too opinionated and refuse to see any one else's point of view, even when there are debatable facts involved, no point trying to reason is there, I know you say you are only talking about people permanently getting high benefits and have alot of kids but I am saying that these benefit cuts that you are so in support of, would pick on more than just those people and they should use another scheme that wouldn't do that and they also need to look at other factors that could help (like increasing wages of the hard working and reducing the stupidly high rent!)

there will be some type of support for people who need it temporarily but the day of £500 a weeks for 10plus year are over there no way this country can afford it....

you are saying what there will and wont be, but it's not been properly confirmed at the moment, and let's face it with the way our government is, it probably never will be, so I think you are wrong, and nothing will come of this. And as for what the country can and can't afford, what about all the people who aren't even meant to be living here claiming benefits in numerous names, and working on top, living in the best of the best houses, what about all the fireworks on new years? they must cost so so much and although they are pretty, they aren't necessary in a recession, there are many many other things to consider, not just this!