going for my face

Hi all
Tia my 11week old bit my face last night while we were playing and drew blood, I shouted and pushed her away, she ran into the kitchen and hid. After a while she came in and sat in the middle of the room and stared at me with her ears back, I ignored her and told my daughter to leave her alone. Tia came over after a while tail wagging very slowly and licked me sat on my lap and went to sleep. Today when we played she never tried to bite me and usually she always go for your hands. She is a very timid girl and I didn't enjoy shouting at her hopfully I never have to again. I've been told to let them mouth your hand.
Atb mickie

Told to let them mouth your hand? By who? You should never let a dog mouth you, and you shouldnt pushing them away if they do. By all means give a yelp, biting isn't acceptable so you did the right thing there. But dogs pick up on body language and moods, you ignoring her and her being timid when she came back into the room wasn't her feeling guilty about what she had done - to her she didn't do anything wrong just got a little over boisterous.

Don't ever let them bite you. Puppies chew, you can never stop that, but you can redirect it. Say "no" or ouch or whatever you want to say very loudly, and then distract her with a chewbone or toy to chew on. Or you can walk away and leave her for a few minutes, then come back and try to play with her again. Repeat as needed. Make sure she knows it's bad to do it, but that she can chew on other things.

You should also ignore her when she gets too hyperactive. Don't put your face near her at all; she's testing her boundaries, trying to find out where in the pack she is, so you're putting yourself at risk with that. If she doesn't already know it, teach her "leave it" or "bed" and send her to her bed to calm down when she's like that, or just ignore her so she gets the message.

When Tia gets over excited I tell her enough and get her to sit for a moment weather shes playing with me the kids or my other dogs, also I don't let her bite hands she always gets told no, since I have had her she has never really left my side, when I'm about she stays with me everywhere I go and won't sit on anyone except me. I know it was my fault

First of all, she didn't 'bite' your face. You were playing with her, she got over excited & she did what she'd have done with her siblings. She nipped in play. Yes, she drew blood which is not acceptable but in her mind she didn't do anything wrong. That's why she sat in the middle of the room & watched you with her ears back, and then came to you with her tail wagging slowly. She was confused & didn't understand why you were so angry.

I would sugest that you don't get down on her level to play, and that if the play starts to get too boisterous, you stop & let her calm down. If she nips at any part of you say (don't shout) "No" firmly and stop all inetrraction with her immediately. Turn away, don't even look at her. If she carries on, pick her up without another word (you've already told her "no") and put her out of the room for a minute or two.

If you (and everybody else in your family/friends) does that every time she nips, she'll soon realise that she only gets attention when she doesn't nip, and will be ignored when she does.

I don't think you should allow any pup to mouth at least until they have stopped nipping, especially when there are children in the house.

Caryll wrote:First of all, she didn't 'bite' your face. You were playing with her, she got over excited & she did what she'd have done with her siblings. She nipped in play. Yes, she drew blood which is not acceptable but in her mind she didn't do anything wrong. That's why she sat in the middle of the room & watched you with her ears back, and then came to you with her tail wagging slowly. She was confused & didn't understand why you were so angry.

I would sugest that you don't get down on her level to play, and that if the play starts to get too boisterous, you stop & let her calm down. If she nips at any part of you say (don't shout) "No" firmly and stop all inetrraction with her immediately. Turn away, don't even look at her. If she carries on, pick her up without another word (you've already told her "no") and put her out of the room for a minute or two.

If you (and everybody else in your family/friends) does that every time she nips, she'll soon realise that she only gets attention when she doesn't nip, and will be ignored when she does.

I don't think you should allow any pup to mouth at least until they have stopped nipping, especially when there are children in the house.

Completly agree. We never let Suki mouth people to avoid any accidents.

I actually totally disagree with a total ban on mouthing to start with, I'm with Ian Dunbar and other experts that say its imperative to teach and reinforce a soft mouth (good bite inhibition) before teaching a pup never to touch human skin with his teeth without being invited to do so.

A few articles that explain why:

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/teachingbiteinhibition.pdf

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_6/features/Bite-Inhibition_16232-1.html

I agree with the not allowing them to mouth until they get past the nippy stage. I understand the theory behind allowing them to bite your hands, but when Charlie was a pup, my twins were only just three and I couldn't allow it so he was not allowed to use his teeth at all. We must have done something right because now, he has fantastic bite inhibition, and we often play with him with our hands in his mouth and he has never once put any pressure on with his jaw or teeth. He's the same with the kids, they can play with him like my husband and I do and he's good as gold with them and never uses his teeth.

I feel your pain! Saffy got my lip a few times and my OH nipple a couple of times! They get soo excited! Lol

Anyway, in the beginning we all did the 'yelp' and that worked really well. And now when she's on our laps and goes into an excited 'licking frenzy' we just hold her firmly (so she can't reach our faces), and either say Ssshhh to calm her down or if she nips/chews our hands we say 'Ah Ah'. Both of these work really well. She's calmed down ALOT.

Now if she does chew our hands (not very often) it's very softly and if she gets too excited as soon as we say 'Ah Ah' or do the Ssshhh she stops at once.

Just to add all my kids have also been consistent with this too. And they don't get nipped at all now.My youngest is 6. Just licked to death!

I honestly don't see why anyone at all would want to let a dog mouth them, what is the point of teaching them how soft to bite? They shouldn't be biting at all! And "they learn that their not allowed to touch human skin with thier teeth unless invited" Who would invite a dog to put their teeth on them?

Tommy's a nipper and we are working hard to stop it , he has caught my OH on the nose adn drew blood , but as stated it is just an accident in play and nothing more, we stop Tommy mouthing / nipping at any opportunity. Maybe if some people feel it is neccessary , then possibly it could happen in an environment where there are 1 or 2 grown ups that appreciate it and can control / handle it. However, we have a grandson thst comes regularly and my OH is a childminder so for our case it is totally unacceptable for Tommy to do this around the kids as it can lead to big problems.

Equi wrote:I honestly don't see why anyone at all would want to let a dog mouth them, what is the point of teaching them how soft to bite? They shouldn't be biting at all! And "they learn that their not allowed to touch human skin with thier teeth unless invited" Who would invite a dog to put their teeth on them?

Have a read from page 79 onwards, http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/AFTER%20You%20Get%20Your%20Puppy.pdf

That's the point

Equi wrote:I honestly don't see why anyone at all would want to let a dog mouth them, what is the point of teaching them how soft to bite? They shouldn't be biting at all! And "they learn that their not allowed to touch human skin with thier teeth unless invited" Who would invite a dog to put their teeth on them?

In addition as Hayley says it is not teaching them correctly , our older dog Tilly could be like this though not to the extent of Tommy , we persevered and now if she mouths by accident during excitement or play , then I just give a quick ow , ahah and say "tongues not teeth" and then she knows exactly what to do next and the tongue comes out instead

Galadriel wrote:I actually totally disagree with a total ban on mouthing to start with, I'm with Ian Dunbar and other experts that say its imperative to teach and reinforce a soft mouth (good bite inhibition) before teaching a pup never to touch human skin with his teeth without being invited to do so.

A few articles that explain why:

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/teachingbiteinhibition.pdf

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_6/features/Bite-Inhibition_16232-1.html

Equi wrote:I honestly don't see why anyone at all would want to let a dog mouth them, what is the point of teaching them how soft to bite? They shouldn't be biting at all! And "they learn that their not allowed to touch human skin with thier teeth unless invited" Who would invite a dog to put their teeth on them?

I agree with Hayley. Especially if there are children in the house mouthing is totally unacceptable.

Galadriel wrote:

Equi wrote:I honestly don't see why anyone at all would want to let a dog mouth them, what is the point of teaching them how soft to bite? They shouldn't be biting at all! And "they learn that their not allowed to touch human skin with thier teeth unless invited" Who would invite a dog to put their teeth on them?

Have a read from page 79 onwards, http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/AFTER%20You%20Get%20Your%20Puppy.pdf

That's the point

I don't take my knowledge from a website or a book i take it from the fact i own a very powerful dog and if i let them mouth me at all they will think it is okay. They should never be allowed to so something you later on will want to stop them doing.

Equi wrote:

Galadriel wrote:

Equi wrote:I honestly don't see why anyone at all would want to let a dog mouth them, what is the point of teaching them how soft to bite? They shouldn't be biting at all! And "they learn that their not allowed to touch human skin with thier teeth unless invited" Who would invite a dog to put their teeth on them?

Have a read from page 79 onwards, http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/AFTER%20You%20Get%20Your%20Puppy.pdf

That's the point

I don't take my knowledge from a website or a book i take it from the fact i own a very powerful dog and if i let them mouth me at all they will think it is okay. They should never be allowed to so something you later on will want to stop them doing.

Mickie I am with the majority on this one and the majority is don't bite. You can take your advice from a text book if you want but we have members from all walks of life with all different experiences.

You don't say , do you have any kids ??

@ Galadriel , how do you propose to handle small children around dogs that think it's ok to mouth , be it soft or hard, do you keep them separated until the pup knows what to do. I'm not criticising , I'm just really interested as I don't see how it can be done, do you have young children ??

No, I don't have young children.

It takes about the same amount of time to teach a pup to mouth gently (before you then teach it not to mouth) as it does to teach the pup not to mouth at all (if that's what you do from day one) so what do you do with young children before a pup has learnt not to mouth?

I guess it would be the same?

Hayley, you can say you don't take your knowledge from a book, that's up to you (although I find it hard to believe as whilst there is a lot unproven rubbish made into books, practically everything worth knowing has been written down in book form! ) but what if that book is based on the many real life experiences of a well qualified person and supported by many other knowledgable and experienced people? Or perhaps based on scientific fact?

For me, it depends on the book or more importantly, the author.

There are many people who believe the bible based on their own personal experiences and interpretations and think the world is less than 10,000 years old. I however, prefer to believe the various experts who have spent years and years objectively researching, that provide evidence and tell me the world is billions of years old

Galadriel wrote:No, I don't have young children.

It takes about the same amount of time to teach a pup to mouth gently (before you then teach it not to mouth) as it does to teach the pup not to mouth at all (if that's what you do from day one) so what do you do with young children before a pup has learnt not to mouth?

I guess it would be the same?

Hayley, you can say you don't take your knowledge from a book, that's up to you (although I find it hard to believe as whilst there is a lot unproven rubbish made into books, practically everything worth knowing has been written down in book form! ) but what if that book is based on the many real life experiences of a well qualified person and supported by many other knowledgable and experienced people? Or perhaps based on scientific fact?

For me, it depends on the book or more importantly, the author.

There are many people who believe the bible based on their own personal experiences and interpretations and think the world is less than 10,000 years old. I however, prefer to believe the various experts who have spent years and years objectively researching, that provide evidence and tell me the world is billions of years old

Do you actually have a dog or do you just work with other peoples dogs ??
If you work with other peoples dogs then are you a trainer that sells your work ??
Do you only get asked to work with problem dogs ??

Sorry but we know very little about you but you seem to have lots of knowledge , opinions and quotes from books, maybe it would help us appreciate where the advice is coming from and what experience it is founded on, if we knew a little more about you , just a thought

As far as i know gala you don't have a dog, so where is YOUR personal experience?

Ai dont think your advice is not very suitable to these situations, amoung others. I don't know how you can quote eveything from a book and expect it to be right, without knowing first hand the consequences.

Have you any first hand experience with bull breeds? If you have you would then know that they are a lot mroe stubborn and a lot more difficult to train. I wouldn't want a bull breed that thought it was okay to mouth anything, as i know rightly it would be a NIGHTMARE to re-train NOT to mouth.

Insane to let any dog think it's ok to mouth you. They will take it as a green light to mouth all humans.
What happens if the dog innocently mouths a child ? It could scare the crap out of the child and cause untold issues with all these uneducated BSL folks.

Puppy's nip, they explore with their mouths afterall. You need to set boundaries and limitations of what is and isnt acceptable behaviour and be consistent.

Jackieb wrote:Insane to let any dog think it's ok to mouth you. They will take it as a green light to mouth all humans.
What happens if the dog innocently mouths a child ? It could scare the crap out of the child and cause untold issues with all these uneducated BSL folks.

Puppy's nip, they explore with their mouths afterall. You need to set boundaries and limitations of what is and isnt acceptable behaviour and be consistent.

well put so true staffie haters would have a field day

Dave wrote:

Galadriel wrote:No, I don't have young children.

It takes about the same amount of time to teach a pup to mouth gently (before you then teach it not to mouth) as it does to teach the pup not to mouth at all (if that's what you do from day one) so what do you do with young children before a pup has learnt not to mouth?

I guess it would be the same?

Hayley, you can say you don't take your knowledge from a book, that's up to you (although I find it hard to believe as whilst there is a lot unproven rubbish made into books, practically everything worth knowing has been written down in book form! ) but what if that book is based on the many real life experiences of a well qualified person and supported by many other knowledgable and experienced people? Or perhaps based on scientific fact?

For me, it depends on the book or more importantly, the author.

There are many people who believe the bible based on their own personal experiences and interpretations and think the world is less than 10,000 years old. I however, prefer to believe the various experts who have spent years and years objectively researching, that provide evidence and tell me the world is billions of years old

Do you actually have a dog or do you just work with other peoples dogs ??
If you work with other peoples dogs then are you a trainer that sells your work ??
Do you only get asked to work with problem dogs ??

Sorry but we know very little about you but you seem to have lots of knowledge , opinions and quotes from books, maybe it would help us appreciate where the advice is coming from and what experience it is founded on, if we knew a little more about you , just a thought

Hayley wrote:As far as i know gala you don't have a dog, so where is YOUR personal experience?

Ai dont think your advice is not very suitable to these situations, amoung others. I don't know how you can quote eveything from a book and expect it to be right, without knowing first hand the consequences.

Have you any first hand experience with bull breeds? If you have you would then know that they are a lot mroe stubborn and a lot more difficult to train. I wouldn't want a bull breed that thought it was okay to mouth anything, as i know rightly it would be a NIGHTMARE to re-train NOT to mouth.

I do have dogs, three of my own at the moment. I don't work with dogs professionally but I have always had dogs and am passionate about them so spend a lot of time researching all things dog related. The three dogs I currently own were adult dogs that no one else wanted or would take on because of their behavioural problems and I have spent (and still do spend) a lot of time training them.

I don't currently own a bull breed athough I have quite a lot of experience with them for someone my age (late 20s).

I don't know all the answers and the more in life I learn, the more I realise there is to learn, and that goes for everything. However, dogs are only hard to train if you are using the wrong methods. So called stubborn breeds like terriers can often be 'easier' to train (or should I say will learn quicker) than less independently thinking breeds providing you find what motivates them and are consistent. My 'bloody minded' JRT for example will learn a LOT quicker than my Lab providing I use what he wants as the prize

Jackieb wrote:Insane to let any dog think it's ok to mouth you...

I have never said that it's OK to let any dog think it's OK to mouth you. It's not. I'm talking about teaching young pups bite inhibition here.

1) Teach the pup to inhibit the force of it's bite

Then...

2) Teach the pup not to bite at all

I just don't see the point!!

Galadriel wrote:

Jackieb wrote:Insane to let any dog think it's ok to mouth you...

I have never said that it's OK to let any dog think it's OK to mouth you. It's not. I'm talking about teaching young pups bite inhibition here.

1) Teach the pup to inhibit the force of it's bite

Then...

2) Teach the pup not to bite at all

I would skip point 1 IMO, straight to point 2 for most family setups IMO, however I can understand the bite inhibition method being used for example in gun dogs. But for staffys and bull breeds IMO go straight to no biting allowed.end of !

The point is so that if your dog is in a situation where he feels the need to bite, in pain, feels his life is being threatened or whatever, he won't bite down or won't bite as hard as a dog that hasn't been taught and reinforced to inhibit his bite.

It's just as important for bully breeds, if not more so IMO because they are powerful dogs.

If you don't want to do it then that's up to you it's a free country. I can only give advice on what I believe to be right. Hopefully your dog(s) will never be in a situation where they feel the need to bite to test the theory.

Galadriel wrote:The point is so that if your dog is in a situation where he feels the need to bite, in pain, feels his life is being threatened or whatever, he won't bite down or won't bite as hard as a dog that hasn't been taught and reinforced to inhibit his bite.

It's just as important for bully breeds, if not more so IMO because they are powerful dogs.

If you don't want to do it then that's up to you it's a free country. I can only give advice on what I believe to be right. Hopefully your dog(s) will never be in a situation where they feel the need to bite to test the theory.

if a dog was injured or threatend the last thing on its mind would be thinking of there training instinct would kick in

mickie wrote:Hi all
Tia my 11week old bit my face last night while we were playing and drew blood, I shouted and pushed her away, she ran into the kitchen and hid. After a while she came in and sat in the middle of the room and stared at me with her ears back, I ignored her and told my daughter to leave her alone. Tia came over after a while tail wagging very slowly and licked me sat on my lap and went to sleep. Today when we played she never tried to bite me and usually she always go for your hands. She is a very timid girl and I didn't enjoy shouting at her hopfully I never have to again. I've been told to let them mouth your hand.
Atb mickie

the topic has went astray abit the question asked reading between the lines is the pup going for the face a normal puppy stage .
yes as others have pointed out it was done in play not with mallis but deff should be discouraged as you have so your doing all the right things

bigwazza wrote:

Galadriel wrote:The point is so that if your dog is in a situation where he feels the need to bite, in pain, feels his life is being threatened or whatever, he won't bite down or won't bite as hard as a dog that hasn't been taught and reinforced to inhibit his bite.

It's just as important for bully breeds, if not more so IMO because they are powerful dogs.

If you don't want to do it then that's up to you it's a free country. I can only give advice on what I believe to be right. Hopefully your dog(s) will never be in a situation where they feel the need to bite to test the theory.

if a dog was injured or threatend the last thing on its mind would be thinking of there training instinct would kick in

Sorry, another off topic post!!

Do you have anything to back that statement up because the case studies I've read would suggest acquired bite inhibition does kick in in those kind of situations?

Experience also tells me that instinct can be tamed by the right training. Otherwise how do you explain dogs that have a high prey drive also having a good chase recall for example?

you can read anything you like in books i will go off experance

Galadriel wrote:It takes about the same amount of time to teach a pup to mouth gently (before you then teach it not to mouth) as it does to teach the pup not to mouth at all (if that's what you do from day one) so what do you do with young children before a pup has learnt not to mouth?

In that case I would prefer to teach a pup not to mouth at all from the offset. That way you get to a non-nipping stage twice as fast.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe the examples you quoted in another thread about a dog with its tail trapped in a door & not biting because it had been trained bite inhibition rather than not to bite at all. Any dog in pain, no matter how it has been trained, is likely to bite.

With the way bull breeds are perceived in society, no mouthing at all is preferable to soft mouthing, especially when there are children around.

bigwazza wrote:you can read anything you like in books i will go off experance

OK

All I will say is bear in mind that personal experience alone can be a dangerous thing as it can make us believe things that aren't true.

Caryll wrote:

Galadriel wrote:It takes about the same amount of time to teach a pup to mouth gently (before you then teach it not to mouth) as it does to teach the pup not to mouth at all (if that's what you do from day one) so what do you do with young children before a pup has learnt not to mouth?

In that case I would prefer to teach a pup not to mouth at all from the offset. That way you get to a non-nipping stage twice as fast.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe the examples you quoted in another thread about a dog with its tail trapped in a door & not biting because it had been trained bite inhibition rather than not to bite at all. Any dog in pain, no matter how it has been trained, is likely to bite.

With the way bull breeds are perceived in society, no mouthing at all is preferable to soft mouthing, especially when there are children around.

That's your choice but IMO with the way bull breeds are perceived it's all the more important that if they should ever bite then they cause little or no damage. Not that there has to be a choice between teaching a dog bite inhibition and having a dog that doesn't go round randomly mouthing people which I think is a point that's being missed here.

Galadriel wrote:

Caryll wrote:

Galadriel wrote:It takes about the same amount of time to teach a pup to mouth gently (before you then teach it not to mouth) as it does to teach the pup not to mouth at all (if that's what you do from day one) so what do you do with young children before a pup has learnt not to mouth?

In that case I would prefer to teach a pup not to mouth at all from the offset. That way you get to a non-nipping stage twice as fast.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe the examples you quoted in another thread about a dog with its tail trapped in a door & not biting because it had been trained bite inhibition rather than not to bite at all. Any dog in pain, no matter how it has been trained, is likely to bite.

With the way bull breeds are perceived in society, no mouthing at all is preferable to soft mouthing, especially when there are children around.

That's your choice but IMO with the way bull breeds are perceived it's all the more important that if they should ever bite then they cause little or no damage. Not that there has to be a choice between teaching a dog bite inhibition and having a dog that doesn't go round randomly mouthing people which I think is a point that's being missed here.

I'm sorry, but that's rubbish. If a dog is going to bite, then that isn't 'mouthing' and you can't say that serious damage won't be done. You can't teach a dog that it's ok to mouth its family but not other people. That's just confusing, and tbh quite cruel - mixed signals for your dog to get it wrong.

Caryll wrote:

Galadriel wrote:

Caryll wrote:

Galadriel wrote:It takes about the same amount of time to teach a pup to mouth gently (before you then teach it not to mouth) as it does to teach the pup not to mouth at all (if that's what you do from day one) so what do you do with young children before a pup has learnt not to mouth?

In that case I would prefer to teach a pup not to mouth at all from the offset. That way you get to a non-nipping stage twice as fast.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe the examples you quoted in another thread about a dog with its tail trapped in a door & not biting because it had been trained bite inhibition rather than not to bite at all. Any dog in pain, no matter how it has been trained, is likely to bite.

With the way bull breeds are perceived in society, no mouthing at all is preferable to soft mouthing, especially when there are children around.

That's your choice but IMO with the way bull breeds are perceived it's all the more important that if they should ever bite then they cause little or no damage. Not that there has to be a choice between teaching a dog bite inhibition and having a dog that doesn't go round randomly mouthing people which I think is a point that's being missed here.

I'm sorry, but that's rubbish. If a dog is going to bite, then that isn't 'mouthing' and you can't say that serious damage won't be done. You can't teach a dog that it's ok to mouth its family but not other people. That's just confusing, and tbh quite cruel - mixed signals for your dog to get it wrong.

Why would the currently accepted theory amongst experts be that dogs with acquired bite inhibition cause less or no damage if they do bite than dogs with no or poor bite inhibition if the evidence didn't suggest that was the case?

Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly because teaching a pup bite inhibition by first teaching it to soften it's bite before teaching it to not bite at all doesn't mean you have an adult dog that thinks it's OK to mouth (if trained correctly).

bigwazza wrote:you can read anything you like in books i will go off experance

THIS.




You can't take everything from a book!!! Bull breeds are not like little jack russel terriers, if they mean to bite you no matter what silly trainign you have done when they were a puppy they are going to bloody bite you with all their might!

Are these "experts" experts in bulls? i highly doubt it. you said you never had a bull. are you expecting to get one?

Maybe the best thing is we will carry on training our dogs not to bite or practice bite inhibition drill , and you do it your way , let's see who is the next to end up on the front page of ther paper because the dog bit but it was only supposed to do it gently

Galadriel wrote:
Why would the currently accepted theory amongst experts be that dogs with acquired bite inhibition cause less or no damage if they do bite than dogs with no or poor bite inhibition if the evidence didn't suggest that was the case?

Which experts? Which theories? If you're just going by Ian Dunbar, then don't quote him to me because I really don't like most of his methods.

A dog that's going to bite will bite hard - if it's been riled enough to bite in the first place it isn't going to worry about bite inhibition.

Galadriel wrote:

bigwazza wrote:you can read anything you like in books i will go off experance

OK

All I will say is bear in mind that personal experience alone can be a dangerous thing as it can make us believe things that aren't true.

By the same token, everything that's written in books isn't necessarily true. A good healthy mix of common sense, wide selection of reading matter & many years of experience tend to work best.

Wow, no wonder so many people think bullies are dangerous dogs if even some bull breed owners think there is something inherently different/dangerous about them

You can't get everything from a book, I agree but you can get a helluva lot from a good book, written by someone who has years and years of experience.

It's not just Ian Dunbar either; there's Jean Donaldson and Karen Pryor, just to name a few you've probably heard of.

Caryll wrote:

Galadriel wrote:

bigwazza wrote:you can read anything you like in books i will go off experance

OK

All I will say is bear in mind that personal experience alone can be a dangerous thing as it can make us believe things that aren't true.

By the same token, everything that's written in books isn't necessarily true. A good healthy mix of common sense, wide selection of reading matter & many years of experience tend to work best.

This is true, which is why I said personal experience alone

I have a little scar on my lower lip from where Cal nipped me very early on. Figured it served me right for trying to kiss a 10 week old puppy. She would never do that now (but I don't think we'll ever get anywhere with the face licking).

Saw one comment about not getting down on their level...totally true! She will still nip ears if we do.

I have read different things about letting them mouth you so staying out of the debate. I will say I am in her mouth constantly removing undesired objects...she never bites me anymore, just puts up with it now. Quite a relief.

Galadriel wrote:Wow, no wonder so many people think bullies are dangerous dogs if even some bull breed owners think there is something inherently different/dangerous about them

Excuse me? No we don't think that.

We just respect the power of their jaws and dont want a child to get "mouthed" which could rip their skin.

maybe you don't know how fragile they can be.

I have took offence to that and i WILL give you a warning if you say something stupid liek that again!

Hayley wrote:

Galadriel wrote:Wow, no wonder so many people think bullies are dangerous dogs if even some bull breed owners think there is something inherently different/dangerous about them

Excuse me? No we don't think that.

We just respect the power of their jaws and dont want a child to get "mouthed" which could rip their skin.

maybe you don't know how fragile they can be.

I have took offence to that and i WILL give you a warning if you say something stupid liek that again!

I don't think that's very fair; I've only typed the impression that was being given by statements like "Bull breeds are not like little jack russel terriers, if they mean to bite you no matter what silly trainign you have done when they were a puppy they are going to bloody bite you with all their might!"

There are quite a few statements I could've taken offence to but I've chosen to ignore them - "We should be too big to take offense and too noble to give it.” And all.

Can we not agree to disagree without threats being made? I was just making an observation. If that's not the impression you were trying to give then I apologise, I must have read it wrong.

Ok, I'm locking this topic now, before it gets out of hand.