Neighbours from hell

I know this isn't the most obvious forum to post in but everybody is always so helpful and there is a wide pool of knowledge here, so I thought I would ask. We bought our house in 2007 on a new build development and at first it was great but then some neighbours from hell moved in and it has been stressful ever since. They have actually forced other neighbours to move away previously and they are really driving me up the wall now. About 18 months ago a few of the neighbours actually floated the idea of applying for an ASBO and I kick myself now for having suggested we allow some leniency at the time but I hadn't directly experienced their full horror at that point and it seemed a bit extreme.

The parents are a surly pair who have a fairly aggressive manner, however, I can keep them at bay for the most part. The real problem now is that their kids are getting bigger and I guess it's no surprise that they are turning into pretty horrible little terrors. Now aged around 10 and 14 I am dreading what they will be like in a couple of years time.

About four months ago they put up a set of goal posts directly opposite our house on a piece of grass that belongs to the development as a whole and pounded the front of our house with a heavy leather football every day after school so you'd hear is smashing into the front door or double glazing 10 times in the space of half an hour. No matter how many times I asked them to stop they just kept on going and repeating that they own this place but they sure as hell do not own my house or property

A couple weeks ago I went round to complain about this ceaseless bombardment and the father just said "They're kids, get used to it". Funny how the never do that at their house though! The football playing has subsided a little since that but they now seem intent on developing new ways of harassing us like ringing the door bell and running away or hurling obscenities.

Last week I bought a new car and one day after it was parked on our driveway I discovered the rear indicator had been cracked in two places, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that this was probably a deliberate act out of spite. When the ice came we then found they were writing obscenities on our car and more than a few times I have found them hurling abuse at our daughter for no good reason while she is in the house.

Today I was out for a walk with the dog when our daughter called us in a rather upset state to say that they were targeting our house and new car with snow balls. When she opened the door and asked them to stop they actually threw snow balls inside the house. When I returned, I again complained to the mother and received a reply laden with swear words. Perhaps to some these points appear small and maybe I sound like a grumpy old man but we really feel like prisoners in our own home and I am fed up with them feeling like it's open season for taking pot shots at our property.

The man at that house has previously been involved in a punch up with another neighbour and I am trying to ensure that I don't put a foot wrong because I know they would be quick as lightning to kick up a fuss if they thought they could get us into trouble. They started asking questions about our dog today which I didn't like. I am even beginning to wonder if this is some kind of deliberate plan on their part for some evil purpose. They have CCTV monitoring all round their house and the surrounding area.

Does anybody have any experience or advice for dealing with this kind of behaviour? I work from home and just want a quiet life so I have avoided wars at all costs but they just get worse all the time and recently I find I can't even sleep at night because of the stress.

Apologies for the rant. This has been bottled up for months.

My advice would be to keep a diary of everything that they do or say that you feel is wrong, and I mean everything. Note down all the dates and times. When you have a substantial diary of evidence against them, take it to your local police station and tell them you want something done. If you can get your neighbours to keep diaries of anything this family does too, that'll strengthen the case. Also, if at all possible, install cameras yourself so you can actually record what they are doing and saying. I sympathise, I've had hellish neighbours too. We moved in the end but you shouldnt have to do that. Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Definatly keep a dairy as shontelle said.I used to live next door to really bad neighbours too.They were both on drugs,playing loud music 24/7.It got so bad,i locked myself in my living room,wich was the only place i couldnt hear them .Every piece of evidence you can gather will help you,so record anything,and everything.I eventually moved away,but the council had enough evidence to take them to court,and evict them.

I actually called a relative earlier who is a policeman and he suggested keeping the diary but from what I have read elsewhere you need a pile of notes 12 inches high before they will even look at a case and apparently the council are useless if the property isn't council controlled. For some reason they seem to have taken aim squarely at us this time around so I don't think they are hassling others at the moment but I will try to discreetly find out.

From past experience of their antics it looks like they enjoy a good battle though so this could get worse before it gets better. I have considered moving but the costs would be prohibitive when you add it all up and the market isn't exactly conducive at the moment, then there is always the possibility that we could find somebody just as bad at the new house. This property is ideally located in every way for school, work, shopping and proximity to the beach less than a mile away, which is why we moved here.

A while back they had a big dog from a rescue home that they proudly paraded for about a week or two but quickly lost interest in the tricky parts like exercise and started taking it just far enough to do its business, leaving the mess on other peoples lawns. The next thing I knew the dog was gone and they were throwing the blame at all the neighbours, saying we had forced them to get rid of the dog but this is nonsense being used as an excuse. Recently they got a puppy of the same breed and it looks like history will soon repeat itself. The dog is left alone for 8-10 hours every day and rarely seems to leave the house. I didn't like all the sudden questions about our dog today.

Tomorrow I shall investigate the CCTV option but I don't know if I should be going for something hidden or very conspicuous just to make it obvious we can see them. I have a friend in Doncaster who recorded some idiot who cycled up to his house and stole the milk every morning for a week. He took the recordings to the police but I think the thief, who was well known to police only received a warning.

How about talking to the police and the council to see what your rights are?Also,how about talking to the neighbours again,about the ASBO you mentioned earlier?I hate neighbours who seem to think they can do what they like,when they like.you are entitled to live in your home in peace,without the fear of threat or intimidation.

I am taking all your points on board and will start to take some steps tomorrow.

Fundamentally these people are just bullies who have no qualms about making other people unhappy if it suits their own need for personal gain or enjoyment. It's actually a miserable way to live if you think about it and you only need to look at the parents to see why the kids are going in this direction.

The development itself has less than 20 properties and some of those are rented apartments owned by the developer. There is a space for visitor parking at the bottom which should logically be left free for visitors but they have dominated that place now with one of their two cars ever since they arrived. I remember once how a previous inhabitant returned one day to visit a friend in an apartment but rather than make use of their own parking area the man decided to park his car in such a way that it blocked the visitor in just to be damned awkward.

The comment about being entitled to live in peace without the fear of threat or intimidation hit the nail on the head. They want to run amok like little hooligans but deprive everybody else of any peace. In the past the mother who is a big lump used to sit outside and stare at everybody in an aggressive manner as they were coming or going. She also likes to stroll up and down patrolling the area with that same surly look.

The more I think about it actually the more I am convinced that installing CCTV at our own property to keep tabs on them will drive her bonkers and is long overdue... It may well be more effective than all the rest put together. I say this because many of the things she has said in the past scream of paranoia. When I asked them to stop using our house as target practice with the football she came up with some angry comment about how she had recorded me talking to a certain neighbour. I was puzzled because I hadn't exchanged two words with that neighbour in months. It turned out she was talking about 18 months ago...

I think CCTV, coupled with a diary is your best bet. Hopefully the cameras will deter those delinquents, but if not, its all extra evidence against them. Just bear in mind tho, they may well try to destroy the cameras so you dont get any incriminating evidence of them.

Shontelle wrote:My advice would be to keep a diary of everything that they do or say that you feel is wrong, and I mean everything. Note down all the dates and times. When you have a substantial diary of evidence against them, take it to your local police station and tell them you want something done. If you can get your neighbours to keep diaries of anything this family does too, that'll strengthen the case. Also, if at all possible, install cameras yourself so you can actually record what they are doing and saying. I sympathise, I've had hellish neighbours too. We moved in the end but you shouldnt have to do that. Good luck, let us know how you get on.

CCTV camera a good one and the police or play tit for tat see how they like it.

Shontelle wrote:I think CCTV, coupled with a diary is your best bet. Hopefully the cameras will deter those delinquents, but if not, its all extra evidence against them. Just bear in mind tho, they may well try to destroy the cameras so you dont get any incriminating evidence of them.

I realise they may well try to destroy the cameras but presumably that will be recorded in which case I think they will be in serious trouble and I wouldn't hesitate to take that evidence to the police. The CCTV is a bit of their own medicine and they won't like it one little bit.

MissRogue wrote:

CCTV camera a good one and the police or play tit for tat see how they like it.

CCTV is a reluctant but probably necessary step on my part. I won't be drawn into any reckless behaviour though that they can throw against me. I am happy to say I don't have so much as a parking ticket against my name and I'd like to keep it that way. I always hate reading about some home owner who ends up being prosecuted or sued because they tried to stop a burglar or similar and ridiculously found themselves on the wrong side of the law.

Totally agree, dont retaliate because they will use that against you and prob make out that you started the whole thing. Knowing the justice system, they'd probably win! Just install CCTV and keep a detailed diary, that should do the trick for you. And tell your daughter to stay well away from them. Its a shame that she has to be intimidated by them too, they sound like worthless pieces of scum to me. Hope it all works out for you.

Shontelle wrote:My advice would be to keep a diary of everything that they do or say that you feel is wrong, and I mean everything. Note down all the dates and times. When you have a substantial diary of evidence against them, take it to your local police station and tell them you want something done. If you can get your neighbours to keep diaries of anything this family does too, that'll strengthen the case. Also, if at all possible, install cameras yourself so you can actually record what they are doing and saying. I sympathise, I've had hellish neighbours too. We moved in the end but you shouldnt have to do that. Good luck, let us know how you get on.

I think that's probably the way forward. A diary, if possible backed up by the neighbours, will help the police to see what the problem is.

ashleyk wrote:
Tomorrow I shall investigate the CCTV option but I don't know if I should be going for something hidden or very conspicuous just to make it obvious we can see them. I have a friend in Doncaster who recorded some idiot who cycled up to his house and stole the milk every morning for a week. He took the recordings to the police but I think the thief, who was well known to police only received a warning.

If you install CCTV make sure it is visible. A hidden camaera is against civil liberties, believe it or not. That's why you always see signs saying "CCTV in operation here". Maybe if they can see the cameras they will tone things down. A slim hope, I know, but if they don't then the film evidence will also help the police.

Re: the council - they are supposed to help anyone who has an excess noise/nuisance problem, not just council tenents. Keep on at them until they agree to try to do something.

Shontelle wrote:Totally agree, dont retaliate because they will use that against you and prob make out that you started the whole thing. Knowing the justice system, they'd probably win! Just install CCTV and keep a detailed diary, that should do the trick for you. And tell your daughter to stay well away from them. Its a shame that she has to be intimidated by them too, they sound like worthless pieces of scum to me. Hope it all works out for you.

My daughter very much stays indoors and tries to have nothing to do with them but I know it gets her understandably upset when our property is under attack and they are hurling abuse while acting like bullies. She is 14 as well but but very quiet and they like to gang up on her when they get a chance, which is completely out of order. I am certain they did this quite deliberately today when they knew I was out of the house with the wife and our dog.

Caryll wrote:

Shontelle wrote:My advice would be to keep a diary of everything that they do or say that you feel is wrong, and I mean everything. Note down all the dates and times. When you have a substantial diary of evidence against them, take it to your local police station and tell them you want something done. If you can get your neighbours to keep diaries of anything this family does too, that'll strengthen the case. Also, if at all possible, install cameras yourself so you can actually record what they are doing and saying. I sympathise, I've had hellish neighbours too. We moved in the end but you shouldnt have to do that. Good luck, let us know how you get on.

I think that's probably the way forward. A diary, if possible backed up by the neighbours, will help the police to see what the problem is.

ashleyk wrote:
Tomorrow I shall investigate the CCTV option but I don't know if I should be going for something hidden or very conspicuous just to make it obvious we can see them. I have a friend in Doncaster who recorded some idiot who cycled up to his house and stole the milk every morning for a week. He took the recordings to the police but I think the thief, who was well known to police only received a warning.

If you install CCTV make sure it is visible. A hidden camaera is against civil liberties, believe it or not. That's why you always see signs saying "CCTV in operation here". Maybe if they can see the cameras they will tone things down. A slim hope, I know, but if they don't then the film evidence will also help the police.

Re: the council - they are supposed to help anyone who has an excess noise/nuisance problem, not just council tenents. Keep on at them until they agree to try to do something.

I have heard before that CCTV cameras need to be kept visible and that is a point which our nuisance neighbours are completely ignoring. Their one is well hidden and records a large area around their house but there is no sign saying it is in action. It is well known now that they have the camera in place, though they tried to keep it secret for a long time.

I have just spoken to my cousin, who has a wife working at the council and she says I should try contacting environmental health and asking for help on the grounds that their actions are damaging our health, which strictly speaking is true when you feel like a bag of nerves on some days and can't sleep until 4.00am due to the stress. She did say though that in practice they are pretty indifferent and hands off unless the property is council managed. It shouldn't be that way but that is the reality when these cases occur. There are times when cases become like a football passed back and forwards between council & police.

Ashley if you get CCTV for it to be used in a court case it must show the correct time and date of recordings otherwise it is no good, so if you buy one make sure it will do this so you don't waste your money

ashleyk wrote:I have just spoken to my cousin, who has a wife working at the council and she says I should try contacting environmental health and asking for help on the grounds that their actions are damaging our health, which strictly speaking is true when you feel like a bag of nerves on some days and can't sleep until 4.00am due to the stress. She did say though that in practice they are pretty indifferent and hands off unless the property is council managed. It shouldn't be that way but that is the reality when these cases occur. There are times when cases become like a football passed back and forwards between council & police.

You should perhaps take your daughter to the doctors & complain that the neighbours' actions are putting her under stress, and it's making her feel ill & unsafe.

Then maybe you can use a letter from the doctor to prove physical/mental harm. Worth a shot.

Marty wrote:Ashley if you get CCTV for it to be used in a court case it must show the correct time and date of recordings otherwise it is no good, so if you buy one make sure it will do this so you don't waste your money

Thanks, that is good advice. Presumably any decent camera will do that but it's worth checking. Looking around a decent set up that also works well in the dark runs to about £300. I've been advised to avoid wireless setups because they aren't very reliable apparently. There is actually a specialist just down the road I gather, so I'll give them a call tomorrow morning and ask what it would cost to have a setup properly fitted.

Good luck, I really hope you manage to sort something out soon.

yeah me too cant be much fun, if all else fails i'll send 10 of my traveller mates down to park on there front and intimidate them for you, they'll run for hills after about 10sec

I've had that before too. The parents are just scum and drag their children up in the same way. I can relate to how stressful it is. I have no advise I'm afraid, as I moved house in the end.

Actually there are some options:

1. Ignore them and hope they move on to someone else (I tried that, it doesn't help your sress level)

2. Try to reason with them (that didn't work for me either)

3. CCTV (In my case, I already had one but it was at the wrong side of the house and was purely cosmetic as it didn't work)

4. Shout at the parent(s) (I'm sorry to say I was reduced to that - it worked but stress levels increase and you don't know when the problem will reoccur)

5. Move house (that is what we did)

6. Get your friends round and kick balls against their house and get your kids to throw snowballs at them when they open the door while you and your friends are drinking cans of lager on their lawn (We didn't try that one but I wish we had!)

I am seeing a recurring theme here where everybody who has experienced this sort of thing eventually ended up having to move

One thing I can guarantee is that ignoring them won't work because they just get worse like that and think they have free license to do as they like. Clearly the parents are quite happy to kick them outside and don't care what they do if it isn't aimed at their own house. I kick myself now for not having been far tougher and complaining to the parents much earlier on but when they were younger they weren't so terrible. It really goes to show though how kids pick up on the ways of their parents.

Your mention of the lager reminded me how I saw the idiot father returning with his dog two days ago with a stupid grin on his face while drinking a can of beer.

We've had similar problems in the past and now, the problem is from my point of view that the length of time it takes for 'officials' to sort this sort of thing is far far to long, the evidence needed for them to take action, too, too much too in depth. We had to make a tough choice, live in what we 'thought' was the perfect location, stressed, upset and just unhappy in general, often fearful too, or, cut our loses and move. No you shouldn't have to move, the council/police should sort it out, justice should be done and the ones in the wrong should be sent away, but not to sound depressive, this is a horrible world without justice where most of the time the 'bad guy' wins and the innocent suffer, so we went. Yeah the location isn't as perfect by we are soooo happy now, no stress, no worry, everything is fine. As you said you'll lose value on the house and in principal you shouldn't have to move, but these are the times we live in. Lose money and be happy or remain stressed and upset?

The only other thing that might help is to get the whole neighbourhood to put in a complaint against them. Strength in numbers and all that. If its just you, the officials might think you just have a grudge or something but they cant deny there's a problem if the entire neighbourhood is complaining about them.

I called the police just now and had a surprisingly long chat. They have arranged for a police lady who covers this area to contact me on Wednesday when she comes back on duty. I know this particular police officer because we have met a few times when I have been out with the dog and we always stop for a quick chat, so I have a sense that she will know how best to deal with this.

The policeman I spoke to said that local knowledge is often the key issue in knowing how to deal with these matters and they can often do some quiet background digging before they decide how best to approach certain individuals.

I am going to quietly start collecting all information now and discreetly talk with other neighbours when I get an opportunity. I'll also keep trying to contact the developer, since they have a number of tenants in the apartments and I know they have had considerable problems with this particular neighbour, so there is no love lost between them.

On the CCTV front I called a couple of places and I am waiting for a call back. When I mentioned this to the policeman at the call centre he started by saying I should be careful because it can escalate matters but at the end he said I think you need to install CCTV...

Well it sounds as if you've got the ball rolling, I just hope they sort it out quickly for you. Good luck.

Good luck,i hope everything gets sorted for you soon. ><

Spaldingstaffies wrote:We've had similar problems in the past and now, the problem is from my point of view that the length of time it takes for 'officials' to sort this sort of thing is far far to long, the evidence needed for them to take action, too, too much too in depth. We had to make a tough choice, live in what we 'thought' was the perfect location, stressed, upset and just unhappy in general, often fearful too, or, cut our loses and move. No you shouldn't have to move, the council/police should sort it out, justice should be done and the ones in the wrong should be sent away, but not to sound depressive, this is a horrible world without justice where most of the time the 'bad guy' wins and the innocent suffer, so we went. Yeah the location isn't as perfect by we are soooo happy now, no stress, no worry, everything is fine. As you said you'll lose value on the house and in principal you shouldn't have to move, but these are the times we live in. Lose money and be happy or remain stressed and upset?

I hear what you are saying and it sounds like you are happy with the decision you made to move away. The part I find so sad is just how common this kind of boorish antisocial behaviour has become in this country and that speaks to a much deeper problem that is not just limited to run down inner city estates like some imagine either. This sort of thing is happening almost everywhere.

I'm just on the other side of the bridge from you in plymouth and we have some antisocial probs here too in alot of areas. Its everywhere now, and just getting worse all the time

Yes, I agree completley with you. I'm sorry if I sounded negative, I'm not wanting to dampen your spirits, just speaking from how it all went for us and like you say the stories that are told time and time again from every part of the country. It was a concern of course that it would be out of the frying pan and into the fire and I fully admit it could happen again here at any time if the wrong people move into the area. In that case would we just move again? Well depending on how bad it is then yes. No we shouldn't have to but its just the way the world is, I have no faith in the justice system from experience and with matters of feeling safe in my own home then yeah I would up sticks again rather than rely on a system that fails unless a lot of time and effort is put in, but from my point that amount of time can be extreme and every second can be hell, sometimes you just need to know when to walk away from a battle. But hey, that's just us lol it doesn't have to be that way and I really really hope it gets sorted for you

Shontelle wrote:I'm just on the other side of the bridge from you in plymouth and we have some antisocial probs here too in alot of areas. Its everywhere now, and just getting worse all the time

I spent 4 years at college in Plymouth and on the whole it was pretty good considering the size of the place but of course I think everywhere is worse now than it was 20 years ago. I am living on the edge of a postcard pretty fishing village called Charlestown and there are houses both in the village and surrounding area that cost serious money but you still get idiots like this living there! Both parents have respectable jobs, so presumably they know how to behave when required but for some reason they are just hard nosed anti social individuals in their day to day life and this is brushing off on the kids.

Tomorrow I have somebody coming round to show me some CCTV options. The prices he started to quote were a bit eye watering, so I hope we can get something useful but keep the price down to sane levels. He is talking about HD quality with full colour which sounded a bit much but he says that when you actually come to needing a camera for evidential purposes you need very good quality or it is far too easy to create doubt over who was responsible. He also suggested a dome style camera because they are far harder to damage or remove.

I had a call from the police this morning and luckily it was the lady I know from walking the dog, so she was immediately friendly and helpful. During the conversation it turned out there have been complaints from two other neighbours as well, which I was relieved to hear because I was a bit concerned that our nuisance neighbour would just say I was exaggerating.

They are now going to add our road to their regular walk through area. She also said they would be dropping postcards through the door to ask people if they had any concerns about the area. Now with the other reports I gather they are building up a picture of what these people are like, so if they cause any further problems the police will have evidence of what has been happening. She also said that from now on I should keep notes on anything that happens.

At least it sounds like they're taking it seriously. Hopefully, if you can keep a record & it's backed up by others, they can do something!

I had bad neighbours and i mean they were neighbours from hell and we complained so many times got us no where to the point where car tires were slashed about 10 times windows put through on the house and cars also reversed a car into my dads car and pushed it through the fence and they were still allowed to live there it was only when the guy jumped my brother from behind and broken his nose that anything got done and even then it wasnt until they found him guilty in court he got evicted. I know how u must feel drove my dad mad they played loud music 24/7 and there kids were nightmares i was only bout 14 but i remember it well really feel for u

It sounds like the problems you experienced were on a whole different level, though I think we are likely to be heading in that direction as the boys get older unless we can stop this now.

Quite amazingly they have actually been completely quiet for the last 7 days and I've barely seen them outside. Perhaps it's just the weather, though they appear to have been away for the most part. I do hope they may have got the message and decided to leave us alone but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.

I don't think some people have any manners and are totally ignorant good on you to stick up for yourself. I had similar when I was very young with 3 small kids the witch next door was horrible very threatening and abusive she had 2 daughters who we're the local bikes the house was rented and the day I moved was the best thing I ever did
nasty piece of work it really is not worth making yourself worry over your doing the right thing